[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It really is a concern, when the historical majority faith of this country is treated as having less importance and less rights than those of minority faiths in the country.

People can't be tolerant to some religous beliefs and not others - that in itself is discrimination.

Since when was sexuality a faith?...

Do you mean the marginalised should just accept being marginalised as that's how it was, is and forever shall be?... pfffft!

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Since when was sexuality a faith?...

Do you mean the marginalised should just accept being marginalised as that's how it was, is and forever shall be?... pfffft!

Many faiths have issues with same sex relationships so therefore it clearly is related to faith and religion.

If for example someone were to excuse a Muslim cake shop from refusing to bake a cake for a same sex wedding based on their regions beliefs they cannot then accuse a Chritian shop of discrimination for doing so based on their regions beliefs.

That would be blatant discrimination.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Many faiths have issues with same sex relationships so therefore it clearly is related to faith and religion.

If for example someone were to excuse a Muslim cake shop from refusing to bake a cake for a same sex wedding based on their regions beliefs they cannot then accuse a Chritian shop of discrimination for doing so based on their regions beliefs.

That would be blatant discrimination.

But it's not a Christian Bakery nor is it a specialist bakery. Lovely Cakes is a normal bakery with Christian owners and that's where the problem lies. It would be common sense not to go to a religious place for custom made items for a gay wedding but that's not the case here.

Nobody has said they'd excuse a Muslim owner of it if they were in the same situation so you are literally using an imaginary situation to call people hypocrites based on imaginary things you've imagined them to say. You are inventing reasons to be offended.

Muslim BIGOTS would receive the same fine as these Christian BIGOTS because, in Oregon, even my example of a religious focused business from my last post wouldn't be exempt from Discrimination Laws since all Private Businesses in Oregon has to follow them.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

But it's not a Christian Bakery nor is it a specialist bakery. Lovely Cakes is a normal bakery with Christian owners and that's where the problem lies. It would be common sense not to go to a religious place for custom made items for a gay wedding but that's not the case here.

Nobody has said they'd excuse a Muslim owner of it if they were in the same situation so you are literally using an imaginary situation to call people hypocrites based on imaginary things you've imagined them to say. You are inventing reasons to be offended.

Muslim BIGOTS would receive the same fine as these Christian BIGOTS because, in Oregon, even my example of a religious focused business from my last post wouldn't be exempt from Discrimination Laws since all Private Businesses in Oregon has to follow them.

I did state that my use of a Muslim bakery was an example, one I used especially as it is a religion often excused its many bigoted behaviours, whereas those doing such excusing often attempt to ridicule and undermine the Christian Religion for the same.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I did state that my use of a Muslim bakery was an example, one I used especially as it is a religion often excused its many bigoted behaviours, whereas those doing such excusing often attempt to ridicule and undermine the Christian Religion for the same.

And that doesn't change the fact that you are calling people hypocrites based on something you've imagined.

Also I don't think any posters on here have ever 'excused' bigoted behavior based on the fact that a muslim is responsible. What I do see a lot is people opposing islamophobic people like yourself from branding millions of innocent people are savages or monsters because you are blinded by your own hatred and fear and can't tell the forest from the trees when it comes to muslims.

The actions of a few do not represent a whole, that's the argument that is always being made against your islamophobia, you can't tell the difference between your average muslim and an extremist and that's why you constantly misrepresent people as defending muslims that are in the wrong rather than opposing the fact you tar millions of people with the same brush, because you can't comprehend the fact that the muslim community is as diverse and wide reaching as christians are.

I would say the exact same thing about the owners of this bakery if they were of any religion, that they are in the wrong.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

And that doesn't change the fact that you are calling people hypocrites based on something you've imagined.

Also I don't think any posters on here have ever 'excused' bigoted behavior based on the fact that a muslim is responsible. What I do see a lot is people opposing islamophobic people like yourself from branding millions of innocent people are savages or monsters because you are blinded by your own hatred and fear and can't tell the forest from the trees when it comes to muslims.

The actions of a few do not represent a whole, that's the argument that is always being made against your islamophobia, you can't tell the difference between your average muslim and an extremist and that's why you constantly misrepresent people as defending muslims that are in the wrong rather than opposing the fact you tar millions of people with the same brush, because you can't comprehend the fact that the muslim community is as diverse and wide reaching as christians are.

I would say the exact same thing about the owners of this bakery if they were of any religion, that they are in the wrong.

If your statement about the reactions to the actions of a few were correct there wouldn't be the problems throughout Europe that there are. If it were just an insignificant few causing a few problems previously tolerant countries such as Sweden and Germany would not be re-thinking their position.

I have never said all Muslims are radical or share bigoted views but the number who do is significantly more than a few - that really is laughable. The more that come here the more radical Muslims will be living among us - that is the law of averages.

I personally dissaprove of the religon because it is filled with hate to many groups including Jews, Hindus, blacks, women, other Muslims, the list goes on. It is and never has been a tolerant or peaceful religion and brings little to our society with all its hate and double standards. At the very least we should be vetting everyone we let into our country and only take those that will enhance our country and its values.

Who used the word 'savages' certainly wasn't me - so once again no words in mouth please. You interpret based on your own perceptions the same as you accuse me of doing so your words are no more valid than mine - it is all about views and perception.

The difference being that if I am wrong then cultural diversity might not be quite as rich as maybe you would like but if you are wrong this country could become a very difficult place to live in the future as multiculturalism has never worked and only heightens the differences in cultures and belief systems which iin turn creates division and segregation.

[user104658]

Just as a matter of interest Brillo... would you say that the UK should take ANY refugees, then? How many would you say OK? Is it literally ZERO, and you would only let in migrants with "something to offer"?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If your statement about the reactions to the actions of a few were correct there wouldn't be the problems throughout Europe that there are. If it were just an insignificant few causing a few problems previously tolerant countries such as Sweden and Germany would not be re-thinking their position.

I have never said all Muslims are radical or share bigoted views but the number who do is significantly more than a few - that really is laughable. The more that come here the more radical Muslims will be living among us - that is the law of averages.

I personally dissaprove of the religon because it is filled with hate to many groups including Jews, Hindus, blacks, women, other Muslims, the list goes on. It is and never has been a tolerant or peaceful religion and brings little to our society with all its hate and double standards. At the very least we should be vetting everyone we let into our country and only take those that will enhance our country and its values.

Who used the word 'savages' certainly wasn't me - so once again no words in mouth please. You interpret based on your own perceptions the same as you accuse me of doing so your words are no more valid than mine - it is all about views and perception.

The difference being that if I am wrong then cultural diversity might not be quite as rich as maybe you would like but if you are wrong this country could become a very difficult place to live in the future as multiculturalism has never worked and only heightens the differences in cultures and belief systems which iin turn creates division and segregation.

You know it's funny, you and your friends pretty much scream at people for proof for every little thing yet you make statements like this and have never provided any proof to back it up. Where are the receipts for this claim?

All religion is filled with hate, have you never read the old testament? Judging an entire religion by ancient scripture alone is never going to paint a pretty picture of any religion. Most people who follow religion pick and choose the passages they wish to follow. A lot of Christians certainly don't consider eating shellfish a sin nor do they consider the mixture of clothing materials to be a grave matter. There's easily passages in the bible that a terrorist group could use to attempt to justify their acts but they don't represent the majority and nor does extremists represent the average muslim.

I hate all organised religion but I find the idea of hating one religion yet being fine with the others when they are all guilty of the same **** to be insufferably hypocritical. My view is that, when it comes to religion, I'll judge the individual, not the whole because only an ignorant person would speak in broad strokes.

This country has been multicultural since it's ascension from our ancestors living in mud huts. People who claim that multiculturism is a bad thing and fear the future ultimately don't know where they've come from.

Funny how you've found a way to bring up immigration in a thread completely unrelated to immigration. Do you not think that people aren't vetted when they apply for asylum? Do you believe we welcome all who come to this country with a Semi Detached house and a brand new car? Immigration as an issue is just a shiny set of keys to jingle in the public's face to distract them from the fact the tories want to privatise everything. Nothing is going to change about it, our economy is reliant on migrant workforces.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I did state that my use of a Muslim bakery was an example, one I used especially as it is a religion often excused its many bigoted behaviours, whereas those doing such excusing often attempt to ridicule and undermine the Christian Religion for the same.

To be fair... and of course at the risk of stereotyping... how many take-aways are owned by Muslim owners? The answer is "a lot". And how many of those take-aways refuse to serve gay couples? The answer is "I've never heard of any!". There is a likelihood that those owners are "not really OK in principle" with homosexuality but they don't then refuse service based on that... and also, more importantly based on your complete strawman argument that "people would be fine with it if it was Muslims!"... no, I don't think people WOULD be ok with it if the local take-away started refusing to serve gay couples.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair... and of course at the risk of stereotyping... how many take-aways are owned by Muslim owners? The answer is "a lot". And how many of those take-aways refuse to serve gay couples? The answer is "I've never heard of any!". There is a likelihood that those owners are "not really OK in principle" with homosexuality but they don't then refuse service based on that... and also, more importantly based on your complete strawman argument that "people would be fine with it if it was Muslims!"... no, I don't think people WOULD be ok with it if the local take-away started refusing to serve gay couples.

Serving food is slightly different, the cake was to be part of a marriage celebration

[Parmy]

Chinese, indians, chippys, wimpeys, mac d...all well known muslim owned takeaways.....get a grip ffs.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Many faiths have issues with same sex relationships so therefore it clearly is related to faith and religion.

If for example someone were to excuse a Muslim cake shop from refusing to bake a cake for a same sex wedding based on their regions beliefs they cannot then accuse a Chritian shop of discrimination for doing so based on their regions beliefs.

That would be blatant discrimination.

That hasn't happened though has it?
Had a cake shop refused to make a cake for a same sex couple and when it went to court they said 'but we're Muslim' then I would expect the same outcome as this personally.