[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

IF indeed it was the rebels / terrorists / miscellaneous who unleashed a chemical weapon, then it is extremely likely that they did so with the prior knowledge of, in collusion with, or possibly even suggested by, an interested third party such as the United States.

Wake up Liberty. You're half way there. Further down the rabbit hole, faster faster!

I'm a lot more awake than you realize, TS. I don't know everything about the world but I know that when it comes to war that governments and media are VERY likely to lie. And perhaps most wars in history are started over lies. War means business. War means opportunity to enhance government power both over seas and domestically. People will know that I am a Trump supporter but I will turn on him so fast if he continues to provoke war.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

I'm a lot more awake than you realize, TS. I don't know everything about the world but I know that when it comes to war that governments and media are VERY likely to lie. And perhaps most wars in history are started over lies. War means business. War means opportunity to enhance government power both over seas and domestically. People will know that I am a Trump supporter but I will turn on him so fast if he continues to provoke war.

People can shout 'propaganda' all they want. The question is, who's propaganda do we believe?

What we do know is, the West took out Hussein and Gaddafi under a pretext of lies. They want to take out Assad before taking out Khamenei but those pesky Russians are making things tough this time round.

I don't believe for a moment that Western interest is about overthrowing ISIS because there's a hundred gorilla groups just as ruthless as them and I don't believe they want to see the fall of Assad because he's an evil dictator (he's only evil if you only pay attention to western news). This is all about oil pipe lines for both Russia and the West.

[Livia]

If there's no evidence of chemical weapons being used, 'beyond a reaonsable doubt', there is definitely a preponderance of evidence. Victims being treated for what could only have been a chemical attack, and bodies showing unique symptons of exposure to chemical weapons. Leaders in the Middle East are not adverse to using chemical weapons; Saddam's chemical attach on the Kurds at Halabja... for instance.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

People can shout 'propaganda' all they want. The question is, who's propaganda do we believe?

What we do know is, the West took out Hussein and Gaddafi under a pretext of lies. They want to take out Assad before taking out Khamenei but those pesky Russians are making things tough this time round.

I don't believe for a moment that Western interest is about overthrowing ISIS because there's a hundred gorilla groups just as ruthless as them and I don't believe they want to see the fall of Assad because he's an evil dictator (he's only evil if you only pay attention to western news). This is all about oil pipe lines for both Russia and the West.

There may be 100 other groups but ISIS are the ones carrying out all the terror attacks in the West currently and should be top of the list.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

There may be 100 other groups but ISIS are the ones carrying out all the terror attacks in the West currently and should be top of the list.

One thing that's been proven over and over again is, you can't fight gorilla warfare like you can a conventional war because there's no clear supply line. ISIS is so entrenched in multiple areas that they are virtually impossible to pin down.

Perhaps we should ask ourselves, why does ISIS exist and why is ISIS targetting the West? Should we just get out and stop trying to police that part of the world for our own material gain? We need to remind ourselves that just as ISIS is evil to us, the West is equally as evil to ISIS.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

One thing that's been proven over and over again is, you can't fight gorilla warfare like you can a conventional war because there's no clear supply line. ISIS is so entrenched in multiple areas that they are virtually impossible to pin down.

Perhaps we should ask ourselves, why does ISIS exist and why is ISIS targetting the West? Should we just get out and stop trying to police that part of the world for our own material gain? We need to remind ourselves that just as ISIS is evil to us, the West is equally as evil to ISIS.

And why are they entrenched in multiple areas - it's all part of their plan. Hence the battle the West now have with the enemy within. We only have ourselves to blame for that in my opinion. Finally, hopefully, the West are waking up to that.

You make it sound as if they don't dictate to and terrorise their own people, especially the poor women. As if they just go about their lives not bothering anyone else unless others bother them. They are tyrants who need to control others and make their lives a misery. Who are you trying to convince!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And why are they entrenched in multiple areas - it's all part of their plan. Hence the battle the West now have with the enemy within. We only have ourselves to blame for that in my opinion. Finally, hopefully, the West are waking up to that.

You make it sound as if they don't dictate to and terrorise their own people, especially the poor women. As if they just go about their lives not bothering anyone else unless others bother them. They are tyrants who need to control others and make their lives a misery. Who are you trying to convince!

Good point

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And why are they entrenched in multiple areas - it's all part of their plan. Hence the battle the West now have with the enemy within. We only have ourselves to blame for that in my opinion. Finally, hopefully, the West are waking up to that.

Of course its part of their plan. They know the terrain, their enemies don't. I mean, good grief, the American army don't even know who to target because ISIS soldiers can look like civilians; all they can do is rely on tip-offs and interception but neither of those things are reliable

Like you say, its the same in the West. These lone wolves come out of nowhere. They can walk among us without creating suspicion

You make it sound as if they don't dictate to and terrorise their own people, especially the poor women. As if they just go about their lives not bothering anyone else unless others bother them. They are tyrants who need to control others and make their lives a misery. Who are you trying to convince!

They are all fighting for their own cause and many of these fractions are as equally as bad as ISIS... meaning they lop off peoples heads, rape and imprison women and murder babies in arms. The Shiites are as bad as the Sunnis who are as bad as the Wahabis and in the middle of all that mess are people who just want to live peaceful lives or get out of that hell hole.

What am I trying to convince people of? I think I have a fairly good understanding of what started this mess. I know the western governments were no innocents in this and I don't believe for an iota of a second that our governments are the good Samaritans that are trying to resolve this mess.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

They are all fighting for their own cause and many of these fractions are as equally as bad as ISIS... meaning they lop off peoples heads, rape and imprison women and murder babies in arms. The Shiites are as bad as the Sunnis who are as bad as the Wahabis and in the middle of all that mess are people who just want to live peaceful lives or get out of that hell hole.

Hmm.....


Not the best endorsement for bringing them over here

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

One thing that's been proven over and over again is, you can't fight gorilla warfare like you can a conventional war because there's no clear supply line. ISIS is so entrenched in multiple areas that they are virtually impossible to pin down.

Perhaps we should ask ourselves, why does ISIS exist and why is ISIS targetting the West? Should we just get out and stop trying to police that part of the world for our own material gain? We need to remind ourselves that just as ISIS is evil to us, the West is equally as evil to ISIS.

They don't just target the West though do they?