[Tom4784]

I don't think the EU are worried at all. We're in a bad position and Brexit hasn't been the shining poster child for leaving the EU thus far that a lot of leavers thought it would be. The leadership is incompetent and we're already flailing. It won't likely inspire any other country to leave as it stands.

Having an arrogant attitude of 'The EU is scared! Brexit will be a revolution that will break the EU!' will get us nowhere and neither will blind faith. The best thing we can do is accept that reality of the situation, things are bad and May is dangerously incompetent and will go whichever way the wind blows. Negotiations must be salvaged because we aren't in a strong enough position to be arrogant at this stage.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't think the EU are worried at all. We're in a bad position and Brexit hasn't been the shining poster child for leaving the EU thus far that a lot of leavers thought it would be. The leadership is incompetent and we're already flailing. It won't likely inspire any other country to leave as it stands.

Having an arrogant attitude of 'The EU is scared! Brexit will be a revolution that will break the EU!' will get us nowhere and neither will blind faith. The best thing we can do is accept that reality of the situation, things are bad and May is dangerously incompetent and will go whichever way the wind blows. Negotiations must be salvaged because we aren't in a strong enough position to be arrogant at this stage.

And who do you suggest for this mammoth task - it clearly wouldn't be Corbyn.

Wouldn't trust Farron either. May is the Priminister and likely to remain so - it is her job and with the right support from her team, no one can do it on their own, she is the woman for the job. To describe her as dangerously incompetent is silly.

Our position is as strong as our self belief and our value of our strengths i.e. Security expertise.

I'm just relieved we are not likely to be lumbered with the Corbyn/Abbot combo - what a disaster that would be.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And who do you suggest for this mammoth task - it clearly wouldn't be Corbyn.

Wouldn't trust Farron either. May is the Priminister and likely to remain so - it is her job and with the right support from her team, no one can do it on their own, she is the woman for the job. To describe her as dangerously incompetent is silly.

Our position is as strong as our self belief and our value of our strengths i.e. Security expertise.

She's shown herself to be incompetent by constantly changing her stance on issues, how can she stand for anything when her administration are constantly changing their minds on what stances to take?

Corbyn would at least be consistent in his goals and would ironically be more likely to get a brexit deal that leavers would be happy with given that he is more likely to stick to his guns than May is as she's gonna fold when things start to get difficult.

I don't want the Lib Dems anywhere near Downing Street, people made the mistake of voting Leave and now they need to accept the consequences, I don't want the Lib Dems to bail them out.

Either way, the Tories have shown themselves to be unequal to the task.

Your point about Self Belief is just plain silly. If a house is burning down having a strong sense of Self Belief that it isn't burning down isn't going to stop the house from burning the **** down. Accepting the reality of the situation we're in is the only way forward, delusion gets us nowhere.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

She's shown herself to be incompetent by constantly changing her stance on issues, how can she stand for anything when her administration are constantly changing their minds on what stances to take?

Corbyn would at least be consistent in his goals and would ironically be more likely to get a brexit deal that leavers would be happy with given that he is more likely to stick to his guns than May is as she's gonna fold when things start to get difficult.

I don't want the Lib Dems anywhere near Downing Street, people made the mistake of voting Leave and now they need to accept the consequences, I don't want the Lib Dems to bail them out.

Either way, the Tories have shown themselves to be unequal to the task.

Your point about Self Belief is just plain silly. If a house is burning down having a strong sense of Self Belief that it isn't burning down isn't going to stop the house from burning the **** down. Accepting the reality of the situation we're in is the only way forward, delusion gets us nowhere.

I think self belief gives you confidence and confidence makes you stronger.

That confidence generally puts you in a stronger position in negotiations, as you are less likely to take any crap and more likely fight for what you want. Don't knock it.

Despite how much you knock this country we do have a lot to offer and the EU know that - even though they are not going to admit it for obvious reasons.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I think self belief gives you confidence and confidence makes you stronger.

That confidence generally puts you in a stronger position in negotiations, as you are less likely to take any crap and more likely fight for what you want. Don't knock it.

Despite how much you knock this country we do have a lot to offer and the EU know that - even though they are not going to admit it for obvious reasons.

Its not about knocking the country, its about knocking government policies. Democracy gives us the right to disagree with those policies.

[Livia]

Am I the only one here who thinks that a politician changing their mind should not be a hanging offence? I kind of admire politicians who u turn. Never be afraid to say you've found a better way to do things. Never be afraid to say you were wrong.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Livia

Am I the only one here who thinks that a politician changing their mind should not be a hanging offence? I kind of admire politicians who u turn. Never be afraid to say you've found a better way to do things. Never be afraid to say you were wrong.

I don't know much about Theresa may but in general i think it's a good quality yeah, means you're more open to listening to everyone i think....although I do wonder about Politicians motives for doing u-turns sometimes

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

Am I the only one here who thinks that a politician changing their mind should not be a hanging offence? I kind of admire politicians who u turn. Never be afraid to say you've found a better way to do things. Never be afraid to say you were wrong.

Double edged sword
I agree its corageous, but also you didnt research well in the first place
Its not like Corbyns making any uturns in the way he voted for gay rights and womens rights in the past
Her uturn in brexit and the snap election doesnt seem like a sudden epiphany, seems closer to being a power hungry sket to me.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

Am I the only one here who thinks that a politician changing their mind should not be a hanging offence? I kind of admire politicians who u turn. Never be afraid to say you've found a better way to do things. Never be afraid to say you were wrong.

I don't mind a politician that makes u-turns for the right reasons but May's u-turns seem to be more for her own benefit than anyone else's. The only reason she's called a snap election after saying she wouldn't for months is because she spotted an opportunity to crush the opposition, She wants to consolidate her hold now because she knows she wouldn't win if the election happened when it should have.

It's an issue of opportunity rather than sincerity when it comes U-turns and politicians like May.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I think self belief gives you confidence and confidence makes you stronger.

That confidence generally puts you in a stronger position in negotiations, as you are less likely to take any crap and more likely fight for what you want. Don't knock it.

Despite how much you knock this country we do have a lot to offer and the EU know that - even though they are not going to admit it for obvious reasons.

It isn't a job interview where we can blag it through confidence alone, it's a negotiation in which EU knows it holds all the cards.

Ah the ol' patriotic act to try to silence any dissenting opinions, a weak ploy for people who can't argue their position any other way.

We don't have a leg to stand on, that is the reality here. Deluding yourself into thinking differently won't change that.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It isn't a job interview where we can blag it through confidence alone, it's a negotiation in which EU knows it holds all the cards.

Ah the ol' patriotic act to try to silence any dissenting opinions, a weak ploy for people who can't argue their position any other way.

We don't have a leg to stand on, that is the reality here. Deluding yourself into thinking differently won't change that.

We will see.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

We will see.

We will, blind hope won't help much when reality sets it.