[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I genuinely think you've lost sight of reality Brillo. You might not agree with or understand many of Corbyn's attitudes towards the political issues surrounding terrorism, and that's fair enough really, but this idea that he's actually some sort of ISIS sleeper agent who has slithered to the top of UK politics and hoodwinked 40%+ of the population... It's just pure fantasy. Ludicrous fantasy.

Did he not say that we should alliow Jihadist fighters who have most likely killed Members of the British armed forces, or if not, not through want of trying, back into our country. Do you really not think that such people pose a threat to all of us? I really cannot fathom that thought process.

Corbyn does sound like a terrorist sympathiser to me.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Did he not say that we should alliow Jihadist fighters who have most likely killed Members of the British armed forces, or if not, not through want of trying, back into our country. Do you really not think that such people pose a threat to all of us? I really cannot fathom that thought process.

Corbyn does sound like a terrorist sympathiser to me.

I'll give you this much Brillo: I'm at least starting to understand that you have genuine fears that fuel your political beliefs and you're not just typing to score points. So that's progress, I suppose.

However I think, from now several months of experience on these forums (years? I can't remember when you rejoined tbh) that you have a very black and white view of the issues at hand and see it all as being "really quite simple" when they are actually, without exception, really very complex. I think by extension of that, you also assume that those who have opposing views to you also see things as being black and white / simple?

I am aware that Corbyn is not a perfect choice. I didn't and haven't ever voted Labour. However I am also aware that the SNP and their policies are far from perfect; they are my BEST choice but in all honesty I wish I had a better one. I am also aware that there are Conservative MPs who have the best of intentions for their constituents.

But the overall trajectory of the Conservative Party under Theresa May, their pandering to authoritarian sensibilities, their deliberate destruction to pave the way for privatisation that benefits them and those close to them directly... None of that can be safely ignored, either?

You have a stance of "defending them no matter what", spinning everything into a positive no matter how obviously negative it is, and it makes it impossible to have any sort of genuine political discussion.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'll give you this much Brillo: I'm at least starting to understand that you have genuine fears that fuel your political beliefs and you're not just typing to score points. So that's progress, I suppose.

However I think, from now several months of experience on these forums (years? I can't remember when you rejoined tbh) that you have a very black and white view of the issues at hand and see it all as being "really quite simple" when they are actually, without exception, really very complex. I think by extension of that, you also assume that those who have opposing views to you also see things as being black and white / simple?

I am aware that Corbyn is not a perfect choice. I didn't and haven't ever voted Labour. However I am also aware that the SNP and their policies are far from perfect; they are my BEST choice but in all honesty I wish I had a better one. I am also aware that there are Conservative MPs who have the best of intentions for their constituents.

But the overall trajectory of the Conservative Party under Theresa May, their pandering to authoritarian sensibilities, their deliberate destruction to pave the way for privatisation that benefits them and those close to them directly... None of that can be safely ignored, either?

You have a stance of "defending them no matter what", spinning everything into a positive no matter how obviously negative it is, and it makes it impossible to have any sort of genuine political discussion.

TBH it's not so much defending Tories as protecting us from Labour. I do feel safer with the Tories. I am not rich, I'm ok, although I have struggled in the past, but I feel on more solid ground with them. I don't particularly like May, I would rather see David Davis as PM, but she is PM ATM so I will support her.

Like most I want more money spent our public services, especially the NHS, but not at the cost of our security and freedoms and, ATM, I feel the tories and their policies are the most likely to do that. I also want to see a fairer society but the way Labour are going about it with policies that will break the bank and put us further in debt is not the way to do it. Corbynis full of promises, like he thinks he has all the answers, but with nothing substantial to back them up in my book. Add that to the security risk I feel he poses I don't want anything to do with him.

I care about the future of my children and their families and with Corbyn and his views I fear for the future for all our children. I feel he cares more about minority groups than the majority of people in this country. There is of course nothing wrong with caring about the less fortunate or excluded in our society but I sometimes feel he takes it to extremes and sees himself, rather arrogantly, as some kind of saviour for all mankind - he us not - and I think this blinds his viewpoint and makes him potentially dangerous - hence his sympathetic views on terrorists.

He seems to see terrorism as some kind of understandable fight against injustice and it isn't. Terrorism is never justified. I think he may have a chip on his shoulder about his privileged upbringing and some kind of 'issue' with the way he was brought up. But then again, like many politicians, maybe he is simply on a power trip, but is better as disguising his motives. Anyway there are too many maybe's in my mind to trust him.

Then or course there is Brexit, God help us if he gets his hands on that, is all I can say. I want the tories for that.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

TBH it's not so much defending Tories as protecting us from Labour. I do feel safer with the Tories. I am not rich, I'm ok, although I have struggled in the past, but I feel on more solid ground with them. I don't particularly like May, I would rather see David Davis as PM, but she is PM ATM so I will support her.

Like most I want more money spent our public services, especially the NHS, but not at the cost of our security and freedoms and, ATM, I feel the tories and their policies are the most likely to do that. I also want to see a fairer society but the way Labour are going about it with policies that will break the bank and put us further in debt is not the way to do it. Corbynis full of promises, like he thinks he has all the answers, but with nothing substantial to back them up in my book. Add that to the security risk I feel he poses I don't want anything to do with him.

I care about the future of my children and their families and with Corbyn and his views I fear for the future for all our children. I feel he cares more about minority groups than the majority of people in this country. There is of course nothing wrong with caring about the less fortunate or excluded in our society but I sometimes feel he takes it to extremes and sees himself, rather arrogantly, as some kind of saviour for all mankind - he us not - and I think this blinds his viewpoint and makes him potentially dangerous - hence his sympathetic views on terrorists.

He seems to see terrorism as some kind of understandable fight against injustice and it isn't. Terrorism is never justified. I think he may have a chip on his shoulder about his privileged upbringing and some kind of 'issue' with the way he was brought up. But then again, like many politicians, maybe he is simply on a power trip, but is better as disguising his motives. Anyway there are too many maybe's in my mind to trust him.

Most of that is pretty reasonable, I suppose. I do think you maybe overlook the dramatic impact that Conservative "over-cutting" could have on public services - I think they have the real potential to do irreversible damage there that will affect everyone at some point, and there are definitely more than a couple of characters high up in the party who are purely self-serving (Johnson, Gove, Hunt, quite honestly May, etc.). If the party could cut out that element, they would be much stronger for it.

In terms of Corbyn I suppose I can appreciate the concern that he might not take external threats seriously enough, for those who see those threats as the most pressing issue we currently face. I genuinely don't, and I think the current "unyielding" approach needs some serious thought in order for truly effective solutions to be found, but I can see why people who think otherwise would find Corbyn worrying. I still maintain though, that the idea that he actively WANTS to see people harmed by terrorist attacks is highly, highly unlikely. I'm sure that at the very least he does believe that he is a pacifist who seeks peace and the most that can be said about that is that he's misguided in how far he's willing to take that (by truly befriending violent individuals - if he indeed has - like I said I'm going to properly look into it at some point for myself because being honest, I haven't much and I'm obviously not interested in what "the papers" have to say about it).

Then or course there is Brexit, God help us if he gets his hands on that, is all I can say. I want the tories for that.

I honestly think Brexit should be a separate issue at this point, it's muddying the waters for one and also, party politics is disrupting the issue. My honest belief is that some sort of cross-party group outside of election politics needs to take over handling the Brexit process or it is going to go absolutely horribly for everyone. We all know it's happening now, everyone wants the best possible outcome... electioneering needs to be kept AWAY from it completely. At the very least, May has to be kept right out of the process. WHether you're a Conservative supporter or not... the bare fact is, she does not have what it takes to go into negotiations with the EU heavy hitters and come away with a good deal for the country. She simply can't do it. She couldn't back when it was looking like she had a huge majorty of the country behind her... and she doesn't even have that to prop her up now. They will never take her seriously.