[Jack_]

Then she would need to be held accountable too, and if she played any major role she should resign and a by-election should be held. You know, people on the left are often accused of blindly supporting their cause and their party and never admitting when they've failed or could do things better, yet certainly in my case I condemn(ed) the Iraq War totally, understand that many of the worst examples of privatisation of public services began under the last Labour government, have not always been confident in Jeremy's leadership, think he needs to be clearer on his condemnation of the IRA, etc etc. And it just seems to me like no matter what the Tories do, literally anything, they will never, ever, ever, ever be held accountable, criticised or asked questions of by their supporters. No political party or politician is perfect (or wholly awful, to be fair), and they shouldn't be treated as such.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Then she would need to be held accountable too, and if she played any major role she should resign and a by-election should be held. You know, people on the left are often accused of blindly supporting their cause and their party and never admitting when they've failed or could do things better, yet certainly in my case I condemn(ed) the Iraq War totally, understand that many of the worst examples of privatisation of public services began under the last Labour government, have not always been confident in Jeremy's leadership, think he needs to be clearer on his condemnation of the IRA, etc etc. And it just seems to me like no matter what the Tories do, literally anything, they will never, ever, ever, ever be held accountable, criticised or asked questions of by their supporters. No political party or politician is perfect (or wholly awful, to be fair), and they shouldn't be treated as such.

We will know in due course why and how this happened and I expect it will prove that there has been failures at every level of government from both political parties stretching back years.The PM has already announced there will be a full and independent public enquiry so why the rush to regurgitate articles from a year ago about a proposed amendment to a housing bill as if this never would have happened if that amendment had passed. There seems to have been an almost giddiness in some circles to attribute blame as quickly as possible and paint it as Tories 100% at fault, Labour not at all. That's why all those articles that you have posted have gone viral and shared madly by Corbyn friendly journalists and websites but not many have been so keen to discuss times when Labour governments have loosened regulations and ignored concerns.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by MTVN

We will know in due course why and how this happened and I expect it will prove that there has been failures at every level of government from both political parties stretching back years.The PM has already announced there will be a full and independent public enquiry so why the rush to regurgitate articles from a year ago about a proposed amendment to a housing bill as if this never would have happened if that amendment had passed. There seems to have been an almost giddiness in some circles to attribute blame as quickly as possible and paint it as Tories 100% at fault, Labour not at all. That's why all those articles that you have posted have gone viral and shared madly by Corbyn friendly journalists and websites but not many have been so keen to discuss times when Labour governments have loosened regulations and ignored concerns.

[Ammi]

..I can completely understand why this has turned to 'politics' and anger so quickly, I mean it's just so unspeakably awful and for anyone involved directly in any way at all...(until those answers they need, do come... all of their emotions have to have a direction, so yeah anger...)...there is an accountability and that accountability may include one body or government or more than one and all will have to answer to their responsibility for the loss of those lives and the loss of those homes...I've been thinking about this constantly since it happened like most of us have and really do feel that it emphasises so much the divide of the 'haves' and the 'have not's'...I mean, what strikes me with this sought of devastation is how much it brings out a community of people all doing what they can to help..people like Leon....the very best of people because people are good, intrinsically good and they're good no matter what their political leaning, I meant that doesn't even come into it...they see suffering, they feel suffering so they help, they do what they can and what they're able to...those who don't have much themselves even because they see that the needs of others are more....I wonder what thoughts Theresa May had when she stepped into her home last night ...could she not have given a room/some rooms to some who were only given aa sport's hall for the night after what they had been through...I mean heck, why do we have a Royal family if they can't help in times like this...what is it...over 50 bedrooms and yet not for anyone in devastation at losing their home in such a way or all of those empty London hotel rooms that could have been offered...wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have a government leader who would actually offer personal help when that personal help is needed but it's only ever offered by the 'normal' people../the general public...so many others who are in a position to help...(and may actually bear some responsibility..).. just closing their just closing their door to the nightmare, not wanting to get too close to actually live any of it themselves....yeah, anger and I really can't blame that anger at all/this country for sure is pretty screwed up...oh and I read that when Theresa May visited Grenfell Tower, he didn't even speak to any of the residents still agonising over those who are missing from human being to human being and having lost everything they own...she didn't even think them worthy of talking to...?....pffffft, whether she was Conservative/Labour or whatever party...as a human being she falls very, very short in every way.....

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I can completely understand why this has turned to 'politics' and anger so quickly, I mean it's just so unspeakably awful and for anyone involved directly in any way at all...(until those answers they need, do come... all of their emotions have to have a direction, so yeah anger...)...there is an accountability and that accountability may include one body or government or more than one and all will have to answer to their responsibility for the loss of those lives and the loss of those homes...I've been thinking about this constantly since it happened like most of us have and really do feel that it emphasises so much the divide of the 'haves' and the 'have not's'...I mean, what strikes me with this sought of devastation is how much it brings out a community of people all doing what they can to help..people like Leon....the very best of people because people are good, intrinsically good and they're good no matter what their political leaning, I meant that doesn't even come into it...they see suffering, they feel suffering so they help, they do what they can and what they're able to...those who don't have much themselves even because they see that the needs of others are more....I wonder what thoughts Theresa May had when she stepped into her home last night ...could she not have given a room/some rooms to some who were only given aa sport's hall for the night after what they had been through...I mean heck, why do we have a Royal family if they can't help in times like this...what is it...over 50 bedrooms and yet not for anyone in devastation at losing their home in such a way or all of those empty London hotel rooms that could have been offered...wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have a government leader who would actually offer personal help when that personal help is needed but it's only ever offered by the 'normal' people../the general public...so many others who are in a position to help...(and may actually bear some responsibility..).. just closing their just closing their door to the nightmare, not wanting to get too close to actually live any of it themselves....yeah, anger and I really can't blame that anger at all/this country for sure is pretty screwed up...oh and I read that when Theresa May visited Grenfell Tower, he didn't even speak to any of the residents still agonising over those who are missing from human being to human being and having lost everything they own...she didn't even think them worthy of talking to...?....pffffft, whether she was Conservative/Labour or whatever party...as a human being she falls very, very short in every way.....

She was probably advised not to yet,we dont know,I doubt very much she would snub them personally,she could have been mobbed or it could have caused all sorts of problems,she was right at this time imo,to keep a low profile.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

She was probably advised not to yet,we dont know,I doubt very much she would snub them personally,she could have been mobbed or it could have caused all sorts of problems,she was right at this time imo,to keep a low profile.

Mobbed? What for....for being so phenomenally strong and stable? :/

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by MTVN

We will know in due course why and how this happened and I expect it will prove that there has been failures at every level of government from both political parties stretching back years.The PM has already announced there will be a full and independent public enquiry so why the rush to regurgitate articles from a year ago about a proposed amendment to a housing bill as if this never would have happened if that amendment had passed. There seems to have been an almost giddiness in some circles to attribute blame as quickly as possible and paint it as Tories 100% at fault, Labour not at all. That's why all those articles that you have posted have gone viral and shared madly by Corbyn friendly journalists and websites but not many have been so keen to discuss times when Labour governments have loosened regulations and ignored concerns.

Well I'm not one of them. As I said, I do not blindly follow a political party - and if there were legislation introduced under Labour governments that failed to prevent this incident from occurring, then the party and ministers of the time must also burden some of the responsibility. I realise deregulation and privatisation in a lot of sectors began under the last Labour government, and I have and will always condemn it wholeheartedly. Also, I'm really not convinced that a public inquiry would actually alter what I believe to be true - that the Tories will never, ever be condemned for anything by their supporters. Only time will tell, but I'd be willing to wager now that if any responsibility is found to be laid at the feet of a Conservative minister and/or policy, the excuses will come in thick and fast. I would not for a minute try to suggest that certain people on the left aren't ridiculously dogmatic in their support for Corbyn and the Labour Party, but from my perception at least, it seems on here that it's actually Tories who are far more tribal. I just find the whole thing bizarre, because sometimes government policy is culpable for tragedies, and there's no getting away from that.

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Do you have any response to my post or are emoticons the order of the day?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Then she would need to be held accountable too, and if she played any major role she should resign and a by-election should be held. You know, people on the left are often accused of blindly supporting their cause and their party and never admitting when they've failed or could do things better, yet certainly in my case I condemn(ed) the Iraq War totally, understand that many of the worst examples of privatisation of public services began under the last Labour government, have not always been confident in Jeremy's leadership, think he needs to be clearer on his condemnation of the IRA, etc etc. And it just seems to me like no matter what the Tories do, literally anything, they will never, ever, ever, ever be held accountable, criticised or asked questions of by their supporters. No political party or politician is perfect (or wholly awful, to be fair), and they shouldn't be treated as such.

All those dead and all you want is a resignation.

[Cherie]

Shameful that the outside was tarted up but safety ignored, in truth there probably would have been fewer if no fatalities without the cladding as the fire wouldn't have taken hold, it's desperately sad

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by parmnion

All those dead and all you want is a resignation.

Definitely not ''all'' that's wanted but May's resignation would be a good start. About time she made herself accountable to someone other than those 'poor' Tory MP's who's seats she lost for them.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by JTM45

Definitely not ''all'' that's wanted but May's resignation would be a good start. About time she made herself accountable to someone other than those 'poor' Tory MP's who's seats she lost for them.

This has nothing to do with may..what did you want her to do? Absail down the building with a blow torch!

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by parmnion

All those dead and all you want is a resignation.

James O'Brian LBC radio-
Politicising The Grenfell Tower Fire Is Crucial. If you don't think this is already political, absolutely, irredeemably and completely political, then I'm afraid you inhabit a planet I do not recognize.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...-james-obrien/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

James O'Brian LBC radio-
Politicising The Grenfell Tower Fire Is Crucial. If you don't think this is already political, absolutely, irredeemably and completely political, then I'm afraid you inhabit a planet I do not recognize.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...-james-obrien/

Job is a champagne socialist troll and no one apart from his band of radical left wing apologists takes him seriously

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Job is a champagne socialist troll and no one apart from his band of radical left wing apologists takes him seriously

So you don't think people should be politicising this tragedy?