[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What's the Queen going got do with anything, Jeremy went as well, as far as I know being signed off by building regs is still a thing, so that is why we will have to wait for the enquiry to see why they got their job so catastrophically wrong

Why was the excuse it wasn't secure for may when her maj went was my point.
what building regs?... the red tape had been cut I don't believe there would be any comebacks for substandard housing.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why was the excuse it wasn't secure for may when her maj went was my point.
what building regs?... the red tape had been cut I don't believe there would be any comebacks for substandard housing.

Al renovations have to be signed off by the council

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So you're saying you know how to fight fires better than highly trained (and they are very highly trained) fire fighters?

No i am saying that when the fire is climbing out the house above the window you don't aim the water below the window which is what was happening in the video. The fire wasnt all that big at this time.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

No i am saying that when the fire is climbing out the house above the window you don't aim the water below the window which is what was happening in the video. The fire wasnt all that big at this time.

You aim the water at the base of the fire because it then vaporizes into steam which then rises and both dampens the rest of the fire, and starves it of oxygen which it needs to continue to burn. Don't know if you've ever had an open fire - but it's exactly the same reason that you would spray water onto the base of the coals in the fireplace if you have a chimney fire. Just on a larger scale.

I'm also quite baffled as to why you think you know more about putting out a fire than dozens of trained firefighters .

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by parmnion

No i am saying that when the fire is climbing out the house above the window you don't aim the water below the window which is what was happening in the video. The fire wasnt all that big at this time.

My brother is a firefighter he said ideally you do both.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Al renovations have to be signed off by the council

Well of course so if they didn't meet building regs the council will have been fully aware, the chancellor insists the material used was banned here so how could it possibly have been sanctioned?

That's if you believe it was banned here and he didn't just say that to cover gavin barwells back for sitting on his hands to improve building regs for high rise buildings while housing minister.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The fire was put out according to the neighbour opposite, I guess as the flammable material was at the centre of the cladding it was burning unnoticed for a while


Philip Hammond claims the cladding used is banned in the U.K., so two questions why was it sold in such a large quantity and why did building regs sign off on it ..

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well of course so if they didn't meet building regs the council will have been fully aware, the chancellor insists the material used was banned here so how could it possibly have been sanctioned?

That's if you believe it was banned here and he didn't just say that to cover gavin barwells back for sitting on his hands to improve building regs for high rise buildings while housing minister.

See my post above you seem determined to argue for the sake of it when I am asking the same questions as you pages before you do

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

See my post above you seem determined to argue for the sake of it when I am asking the same questions as you pages before you do

And my post is agreeing with you not arguing against what you say :/

The whole thing stinks of corruption, the most laughable being the MP who lost her seat pointing fingers at her replacement who sat on the council 3yrs ago!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You aim the water at the base of the fire because it then vaporizes into steam which then rises and both dampens the rest of the fire, and starves it of oxygen which it needs to continue to burn. Don't know if you've ever had an open fire - but it's exactly the same reason that you would spray water onto the base of the coals in the fireplace if you have a chimney fire. Just on a larger scale.

I'm also quite baffled as to why you think you know more about putting out a fire than dozens of trained firefighters .

Yeah that's exactly right. My husband is a fire fighter and they're extremely well trained and he says that UKs training is very similar to theirs.

When they go to chimney fires that's exactly what they do, the water evaporates and goes up the chimney

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I wonder how much subletting to illegals was going on? Trying to work out who was in there will be a nightmare

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Making the thread not only political, but about immigration . I'd have thought it was impossible but here we are.

The Mayor of London has called on the government to ensure any illegal immigrants who lived in Grenfell Tower to be protected.

One of the reasons for the authorities inability to get an accurate death toll is because some of the victims are too frightened to come forward and get help.

LBC's Senior Reporter Vincent McAviney explains: "Some of the residents are undocumented migrants or are people who were living in the tower illegally - and they're worried that is their status is looked into, they'll be prosecuted.

"The probelm with this is that without working out exactly who was inside, an acurate death toll can't be known and secondly, the people that did survive can't be rehoused or helped in any way."

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...al-immigrants/

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The Mayor of London has called on the government to ensure any illegal immigrants who lived in Grenfell Tower to be protected.

One of the reasons for the authorities inability to get an accurate death toll is because some of the victims are too frightened to come forward and get help.

LBC's Senior Reporter Vincent McAviney explains: "Some of the residents are undocumented migrants or are people who were living in the tower illegally - and they're worried that is their status is looked into, they'll be prosecuted.

"The probelm with this is that without working out exactly who was inside, an acurate death toll can't be known and secondly, the people that did survive can't be rehoused or helped in any way."

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...al-immigrants/

How does that detract from the fact you were speculating at the time? To make some socio-political point while condemning others for doing so?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The Mayor of London has called on the government to ensure any illegal immigrants who lived in Grenfell Tower to be protected.

One of the reasons for the authorities inability to get an accurate death toll is because some of the victims are too frightened to come forward and get help.

LBC's Senior Reporter Vincent McAviney explains: "Some of the residents are undocumented migrants or are people who were living in the tower illegally - and they're worried that is their status is looked into, they'll be prosecuted.

"The probelm with this is that without working out exactly who was inside, an acurate death toll can't be known and secondly, the people that did survive can't be rehoused or helped in any way."

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...al-immigrants/

It's a no-brainer that there might have been discrepancies between the official documents and who was actually living there LT. I didn't say otherwise. My problem was never with the fact, but with your obvious agenda in pointing it out. The reason your agenda is obvious, is that you have almost 45,000 posts on this site that make it obvious. If I'm wrong in this case, and you don't like being pre-judged on your motivations for making certain comments, I would suggest that you take some time to consider why people might have that idea about you .

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's a no-brainer that there might have been discrepancies between the official documents and who was actually living there LT. I didn't say otherwise. My problem was never with the fact, but with your obvious agenda in pointing it out. The reason your agenda is obvious, is that you have almost 45,000 posts on this site that make it obvious. If I'm wrong in this case, and you don't like being pre-judged on your motivations for making certain comments, I would suggest that you take some time to consider why people might have that idea about you .

or you were wrong

as you often are in a rush to make some virtuous point

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

or you were wrong

as you often are in a rush to make some virtuous point

I was wrong that you tried to make the thread about immigration? . I was wrong to be concerned about your motivations for doing so?

I wonder if you really lack such self-awareness LT.

I would suggest that you take some time to consider why people might have that idea about you

Because it seems to bother you...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

or you were wrong

as you often are in a rush to make some virtuous point

Some virtuous point, What does that mean, are your points not virtuous? :/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I was wrong that you tried to make the thread about immigration? . I was wrong to be concerned about your motivations for doing so?

I wonder if you really lack such self-awareness LT.

I would suggest that you take some time to consider why people might have that idea about you

Because it seems to bother you...

If that is your backhanded way of admitting you were wrong, i understand

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The Mayor of London has called on the government to ensure any illegal immigrants who lived in Grenfell Tower to be protected.

One of the reasons for the authorities inability to get an accurate death toll is because some of the victims are too frightened to come forward and get help.

LBC's Senior Reporter Vincent McAviney explains: "Some of the residents are undocumented migrants or are people who were living in the tower illegally - and they're worried that is their status is looked into, they'll be prosecuted.

"The probelm with this is that without working out exactly who was inside, an acurate death toll can't be known and secondly, the people that did survive can't be rehoused or helped in any way."

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...al-immigrants/

Spot on again LT, LT for PM

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

If that is your backhanded way of admitting you were wrong, i understand

Why are you tying to troll me when you know fine well it isn't going to work? . You're only demonstrating how wound up you get about these things... I mean... quoting posts from 20 pages earlier in the thread? I feel like you need to learn to let things go .

If we HAVE to get into it;

I am not admitting anything and I wasn't wrong. I didn't say there wouldn't be unregistered immigrants in the tower. I called you out for making that point within HOURS of dozens of people losing their lives because I am 90% sure that you did not do so out of concern for the people in the building... but because you dislike immigrants and wanted to get in a quick, petty point about immigration in the immediate wake of a tragedy. It's not about whether or not you were "right" in saying that there were probably illegal immigrants in the building, it's about your reasons for saying it, and it always was.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Why are you tying to troll me when you know fine well it isn't going to work? :joker. You're only demonstrating how wound up you get about these things... I mean... quoting posts from 20 pages earlier in the thread? I feel like you need to learn to let things go .

If we HAVE to get into it;

I am not admitting anything and I wasn't wrong. I didn't say there wouldn't be unregistered immigrants in the tower. I called you out for making that point within HOURS of dozens of people losing their lives because I am 90% sure that you did not do so out of concern for the people in the building... but because you dislike immigrants and wanted to get in a quick, petty point about immigration in the immediate wake of a tragedy. It's not about whether or not you were "right" in saying that there were probably illegal immigrants in the building, it's about your reasons for saying it, and it always was.

100% agreed

[Kizzy]

'Inspections have found more flats with combustible cladding of the kind used on Grenfell Tower, May says. She says those buildings will be made safe.
She says 100 tower blocks a day are being inspected.

More information will be released later about where these flats are, she says.

She says these buildings will be made safe. No one will be forced to live in homes that are not safe.'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...b0fb1893fa1a4c

[Kizzy]

Unbelievable :/


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-fire-says-may

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The Mayor of London has called on the government to ensure any illegal immigrants who lived in Grenfell Tower to be protected.

One of the reasons for the authorities inability to get an accurate death toll is because some of the victims are too frightened to come forward and get help.

LBC's Senior Reporter Vincent McAviney explains: "Some of the residents are undocumented migrants or are people who were living in the tower illegally - and they're worried that is their status is looked into, they'll be prosecuted.

"The probelm with this is that without working out exactly who was inside, an acurate death toll can't be known and secondly, the people that did survive can't be rehoused or helped in any way."

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...al-immigrants/

I don't understand how some illegals living in there would be hindering getting the death toll known? Unless the council didn't have accurate records of who was actually living in their properties of course As currently, what people are asking for is council records compared against those found. Yes if a few flats were sublet or something then the death figures could be a lot higher...

Basically if someone was living in the tower 'illegally' then they would not be on the records to begin with. So there would be no point them coming forwards to say they were safe as noone would even know they were there to start with. If this makes sense. These people being too scared to let authorities know they got out will not be affecting the numbers at all as they were never even known to be there in the first place...


Ensuring any 'illegal immigrants' who lived in the tower is a ridiculous request. As ANY illegal immigrant in the country could claim they were a victim and thus be housed. As there won't actually be any records of the people who genuinely were there...being illegal and all...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Unbelievable :/


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-fire-says-may

The Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) was coordinating the process and facilities to allow for 100 samples a day to be tested, the spokeswoman said.

“So far, three samples have been found to be combustible,” she said. “In terms of how many buildings and how many homes have this type of cladding, the estimate provided to us by councils is that there are approximately 600 high-rise buildings with similar cladding.


“We are in touch with all the local authorities to encourage them to urgently send us the samples and then we will carry out the checks that we need to see where we are with that.”

In blocks where the cladding was found to be combustible further tests would be done to ensure the building was safe and residents could be rehoused.



-----------------------------

is it any wonder this tragedy happened?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) was coordinating the process and facilities to allow for 100 samples a day to be tested, the spokeswoman said.

“So far, three samples have been found to be combustible,” she said. “In terms of how many buildings and how many homes have this type of cladding, the estimate provided to us by councils is that there are approximately 600 high-rise buildings with similar cladding.


“We are in touch with all the local authorities to encourage them to urgently send us the samples and then we will carry out the checks that we need to see where we are with that.”

In blocks where the cladding was found to be combustible further tests would be done to ensure the building was safe and residents could be rehoused.



-----------------------------

is it any wonder this tragedy happened?

What is your point?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What is your point?

BIB