[Vicky.]

These people really have no shame.

I don't think its fair to call a 12 year old child a murdering bastard tbh. He has clearly been hugely abused to end up that way. He might possibly have a chance of rehabilitation, depending quite how badly they ****ed his head up. Needs supervision for life though I would say as he would be a ticking timebomb.

If it wasn't for the child, I would say leave her there to be killed...and hope her death is as slow and painful as possible tbh, though that may just be my twisted thinking. But this child needs some consideration here.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You wouldn't have any sympathy for a 12 year old who was literally raised to believe that what he was doing was right by adults who should know better? That's child abuse, he had no choice.

It could be said the vast majority of isis fighters were raised to think the same...do we pardon all of them?

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

No he can't!

Ok..he can be tried as an adult in a youth court...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by parmnion

It could be said the vast majority of isis fighters were raised to think the same...do we pardon all of them?

No but this one is still only 12, a child, he could be rehabilitated before it's too late

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No but this one is still only 12, a child, he could be rehabilitated before it's too late

I have my veiws on this as do you...im leaving it here.

[user104658]

To be fair, I have my doubts that a child who has been raised almost to their teens in an environment of engaging in such violence will ever be totally psychologically "normal". But then again, there are accounts of African child-soldiers who are forced to do horrific things (and often stuffed full of narcotics) going on to live peaceful adult lives after being rescued from the clutches of warlords. So it's possible. Secure psychiatric care would probably be more appropriate than prison. It really would have to be very long term though.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair, I have my doubts that a child who has been raised almost to their teens in an environment of engaging in such violence will ever be totally psychologically "normal". But then again, there are accounts of African child-soldiers who are forced to do horrific things (and often stuffed full of narcotics) going on to live peaceful adult lives after being rescued from the clutches of warlords. So it's possible. Secure psychiatric care would probably be more appropriate than prison. It really would have to be very long term though.

It would be really difficult, i don't disagree but my own son is 13 and he's still a baby in my eyes

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It would be really difficult, i don't disagree but my own son is 13 and he's still a baby in my eyes

It is horrendous really, they are definitely victims in their own way. But in so many ways, younger is even worse. I mentioned child soldiers but even then, usually they live relatively normal childhoods up until age 9 or 10 before being taken from their families and twisted into killers. They have the memory of a peaceful life before all of it, a normality that with time they can rediscover once all of the horrors have been deprogrammed. I don't know what's left of someone like this 12 year old boy who has never known anything but that sort of existence, to whom violence and death *is* normality, if you strip all of that away.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It is horrendous really, they are definitely victims in their own way. But in so many ways, younger is even worse. I mentioned child soldiers but even then, usually they live relatively normal childhoods up until age 9 or 10 before being taken from their families and twisted into killers. They have the memory of a peaceful life before all of it, a normality that with time they can rediscover once all of the horrors have been deprogrammed. I don't know what's left of someone like this 12 year old boy who has never known anything but that sort of existence, to whom violence and death *is* normality, if you strip all of that away.

I know, it's so sad really. That mother has a lot to answer for, disgusting piece of s**t

[Kizzy]

I say let her back, there must be secure isolated facilities, imagine the intelligence she has? she is information gold.
I know kids are resilient but can he be saved? I don't know

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It would be really difficult, i don't disagree but my own son is 13 and he's still a baby in my eyes

Sorry to put that thought in your head niamh, but there is no comparrison to childhood as the womans son is as far from childhood as you can get..away and give him a hug.

[Parmy]

I hesitate to do this but compare it to the killers of jamie bulger.. I mean i know there isnt the same thing regarding radicalisation in the upbringing, but surely the upbringing is the root cause in both cases?

So IF it is, why was all the vitriol and hatred spewed at them accepted when this kid, is pittied?
It is all tragic, and maybe i am heartless but It confuses me.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I say let her back, there must be secure isolated facilities, imagine the intelligence she has? she is information gold.
I know kids are resilient but can he be saved? I don't know

We probably couldn't believe a word she said. She wouldn't be worth the taxpayers' money.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I hesitate to do this but compare it to the killers of jamie bulger.. I mean i know there isnt the same thing regarding radicalisation in the upbringing, but surely the upbringing is the root cause in both cases?

So IF it is, why was all the vitriol and hatred spewed at them accepted when this kid, is pittied?
It is all tragic, and maybe i am heartless but It confuses me.

The thought had occurred to me too - they were vilified when about 2 years' younger than this boy. Yes different circumstances but all children from awful backgrounds all the same.

[Northern Monkey]

Yeah agree with TS.You could never put that kid in school with white British(or infidel) kids.It'd be a blood bath.He'd need to go through a long term deprogramming programme?

The mother however.Off with her head and feed her to the Queens corgi's

[smudgie]

I think it's time to say anybody going to fight for ISIS will automatically lose their right to return.
Is she crying to come home because she realises she is on the drone hit list?
She is not worth the Ł40k plus a year to keep her in jail.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The thought had occurred to me too - they were vilified when about 2 years' younger than this boy. Yes different circumstances but all children from awful backgrounds all the same.

Yeah i thought, wait a minute these kids were ten and had death threats aimed at them..dont get me wrong, i say lock them up for life.. give them a playstation but no key, but this kid will probably have beheaded. Also probably practiced beheading on some random soul.

It sounds unreal, but its not. People need to get real and realise this extremism needs shut down, shut down completely..this kid will have been bred for this..pure and simple...people need to get this.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Three words.
Keep her out.

This.

She wanted to join that barbaric group, now she can live with that choice.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

This.

She wanted to join that barbaric group, now she can live with that choice.

That outlook would also sacrifice the child.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I hesitate to do this but compare it to the killers of jamie bulger.. I mean i know there isnt the same thing regarding radicalisation in the upbringing, but surely the upbringing is the root cause in both cases?

So IF it is, why was all the vitriol and hatred spewed at them accepted when this kid, is pittied?
It is all tragic, and maybe i am heartless but It confuses me.

Those children planned out their attack on James Bulger, where as this child is being guided by adults to kill people. That's the difference in my eyes.

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by parmnion

That outlook would also sacrifice the child.

The child didn't choose to join ISIS, that's the difference here.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Those children planned out their attack on James Bulger, where as this child is being guided by adults to kill people. That's the difference in my eyes.

Yes i know, both had a crap upbringing though. Both violent.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

The child didn't choose to join ISIS, that's the difference here.

Yeah but refusing the mother into britain would leave the child abandoned to a life of violence and probable death.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I hesitate to do this but compare it to the killers of jamie bulger.. I mean i know there isnt the same thing regarding radicalisation in the upbringing, but surely the upbringing is the root cause in both cases?

So IF it is, why was all the vitriol and hatred spewed at them accepted when this kid, is pittied?
It is all tragic, and maybe i am heartless but It confuses me.

The entire Bulger case is tragic, though, from start to finish. What they did was unthinkable, and all that's left now is two very broken adults, but yeah... personally I don't think it takes away from any sympathy for the Bulger family and what they've endured to say that it IS sad that those two boys lives clearly went very, very wrong at a very early stage. The people responsible for that should shoulder a huge part of the blame for Jamie Bulger's death, too.

It's probably "not PC" to say that though, I guess. We're "supposed to" just hate them. But that tends to be because people can't draw the line between trying to understand a situation and making excuses for it / pardoning it. Whatever happened to them to make them dangerous is tragic; but it doesn't take away from the fact that they became dangerous.

The same goes for this kid in this thread. His life story is tragic, really unthinkable, but that doesn't mean he isn't now extremely dangerous.

[user104658]

Oh as for the woman herself and her new upset... My guess from the sounds of things would be that her jihadist husband probably treated her very well and she had whatever she wanted when he was alive, and perhaps even a degree of power. But now that he's dead it's most likely not quite so "fun" any more.