[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

As free movement means less secure borders and most EU countries have now had enough of unsecure borders and immigration I think many would be more concerned about that than free movement.

They could hardly fault the UK for not wanting open borders when they have experienced the down side of it and are threatening to close their borders.

I don't understand what you're saying here... Take the EU out of the equation, if we trade with the rest of the world and they want free trade what can we do?
We bleated bad enough about eastern Europeans :/

[Kizzy]

The chancellor Phillip Hammond is correct in what he says... The public sector is paid on average 10% more than the private sector.

And what is wrong with that? For me it doesn't suggest there needs to be any movement in public sector wages... more that there is a need for an increase in private sector wages.

The minimum wage increasing to £10ph will achieve this, so just do it, what's the issue? The service industry needs workers, give them a fair days pay and end this discrepancy between public and private sector wages.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7843461.html

[Tom4784]

The Tories will agree to whatever deal gets offered to them, the current government has no backbone and are all bark and no bite. They're not going to walk away without a deal and the EU are holding all the cards.

Brexit is going to happen but a lot of Leavers won't be happy with it and they've only got themselves to blame for voting back in an incompetent government.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The chancellor Phillip Hammond is correct in what he says... The public sector is paid on average 10% more than the private sector.

And what is wrong with that? For me it doesn't suggest there needs to be any movement in public sector wages... more that there is a need for an increase in private sector wages.

The minimum wage increasing to £10ph will achieve this, so just do it, what's the issue? The service industry needs workers, give them a fair days pay and end this discrepancy between public and private sector wages.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7843461.html

Its disgraceful how labour do NOTHING for small businesses
The backbone of our nation , the biggest jobs provider and the people who give us our identity and uniqueness

No one goes to the great cities for the massive corporate brands, they go for the unique businesses that give a place charm, heritage, culture, uniqueness, that represent that town city country and its people

but labir destroy small businesses, with petty rules, red tape, massively rises in their licenses, rates, tariffs, car parking charges, endless disastrous road work projects ...massive rises in public sector chief exective rises to over £250,000 per annum plus bonuses and massive increases in expensive wasteful middle management that bankrupted the pubic sector, endless speed cameras to get more money out of working people, they then demand pay rises and pension rises, theyre pensions are already way higher than those in small businesses. Their endless benefits handouts to breed for benefits lazy layabouts, they should only be for sick and disabled people. Not to forget the nhs is for life saving not boob jobs...The private sector always has to bail out the public sector when they always go bankrupt anf run out of other peoples money

They are a disgrace

They have even introduced a stallinist double license on all home owners in wales, you buy a license per landlord and another per property for the priveliege of the councils allowing you to rent your own privately owned house to anyone, even your own mother? this is communism
in wales theres a bigger percentage of the population employed by the state than in old russia. This is why wales is always poorer than england, they are enslaved to this mindless socialism

the small businesses dont have massive trade unions to march and demand more money like the public sector, they are too busy working to survive and pay their bills, create jobs and make a profit to live off

corbyn and the bullies of the left never ever do or say anything about the small businesses and never join up the dots that it is these hard working small business owners who fund and supply the public sector and their endless mindless waste, their greedy wages and pension demands

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The Tories will agree to whatever deal gets offered to them, the current government has no backbone and are all bark and no bite. They're not going to walk away without a deal and the EU are holding all the cards.

Brexit is going to happen but a lot of Leavers won't be happy with it and they've only got themselves to blame for voting back in an incompetent government.

Where is your patriotism? the EU hold no cards, they are bankrupt with record unemployment. Their power is an illusion, theyre the titanic and they hit the iceberg and due to the same sheer arrogance, corruption and complacency they will end up at the bottom of the ocean too. You can count on it.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by the truth

theyre the titanic and they hit the iceberg and due to the same sheer arrogance, corruption and complacency they will end up at the bottom of the ocean too. You can count on it.

Sounds like Theresa May's Tory 'Government' you're talking about here.

You're confusing 'Patriotism' with 'Nationalism', two very different things!
Nationalism is the blind flag-waving where people are willing to cut their nose off to spite their face with very little concern about the overall financial or social state of our country while true Patriots want what's best for our Country and those who live in it, regardless of ethnicity or political leaning.

Brexit was hijacked very early on by thinly veiled Nationalist xenophobes who put their personal agenda before what is really best in the long term for Britain and its citizens. Highly un-Patriotic.

The backbone of Brexit is and always has been badly informed and willfully ignorant people who whipped up insecurities, fears and phobias and spread mis-information to serve their selfish personal agenda.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by JTM45

Sounds like Theresa May's Tory 'Government' you're talking about here.

You're confusing 'Patriotism' with 'Nationalism', two very different things!
Nationalism is the blind flag-waving where people are willing to cut their nose off to spite their face with very little concern about the overall financial or social state of our country while true Patriots want what's best for our Country and those who live in it, regardless of ethnicity or political leaning.

Brexit was hijacked very early on by thinly veiled Nationalist xenophobes who put their personal agenda before what is really best in the long term for Britain and its citizens. Highly un-Patriotic.

The backbone of Brexit is and always has been badly informed and willfully ignorant people who whipped up insecurities, fears and phobias and spread mis-information to serve their selfish personal agenda.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

Its disgraceful how labour do NOTHING for small businesses
The backbone of our nation , the biggest jobs provider and the people who give us our identity and uniqueness

No one goes to the great cities for the massive corporate brands, they go for the unique businesses that give a place charm, heritage, culture, uniqueness, that represent that town city country and its people

but labir destroy small businesses, with petty rules, red tape, massively rises in their licenses, rates, tariffs, car parking charges, endless disastrous road work projects ...massive rises in public sector chief exective rises to over £250,000 per annum plus bonuses and massive increases in expensive wasteful middle management that bankrupted the pubic sector, endless speed cameras to get more money out of working people, they then demand pay rises and pension rises, theyre pensions are already way higher than those in small businesses. Their endless benefits handouts to breed for benefits lazy layabouts, they should only be for sick and disabled people. Not to forget the nhs is for life saving not boob jobs...The private sector always has to bail out the public sector when they always go bankrupt anf run out of other peoples money

They are a disgrace

They have even introduced a stallinist double license on all home owners in wales, you buy a license per landlord and another per property for the priveliege of the councils allowing you to rent your own privately owned house to anyone, even your own mother? this is communism
in wales theres a bigger percentage of the population employed by the state than in old russia. This is why wales is always poorer than england, they are enslaved to this mindless socialism

the small businesses dont have massive trade unions to march and demand more money like the public sector, they are too busy working to survive and pay their bills, create jobs and make a profit to live off

corbyn and the bullies of the left never ever do or say anything about the small businesses and never join up the dots that it is these hard working small business owners who fund and supply the public sector and their endless mindless waste, their greedy wages and pension demands

Red tape saves lives.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Red tape saves lives.

bad red tape costs lives and billions in public money too

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by JTM45

Sounds like Theresa May's Tory 'Government' you're talking about here.

You're confusing 'Patriotism' with 'Nationalism', two very different things!
Nationalism is the blind flag-waving where people are willing to cut their nose off to spite their face with very little concern about the overall financial or social state of our country while true Patriots want what's best for our Country and those who live in it, regardless of ethnicity or political leaning.

Brexit was hijacked very early on by thinly veiled Nationalist xenophobes who put their personal agenda before what is really best in the long term for Britain and its citizens. Highly un-Patriotic.

The backbone of Brexit is and always has been badly informed and willfully ignorant people who whipped up insecurities, fears and phobias and spread mis-information to serve their selfish personal agenda.

'The backbone of Brexit is/has been badly informed because you say so - yep right!

Many labour politicians care little about things like social issues, ethnicity and diversity and what is best for the country and more about creating a nation of future Labour voters hence their keenness to let in hundreds of thousands of those future voters with little thought for the long-term effects on the country. It's all a manipulative pretence in the name of a power grab and political control to serve their selfish personal/political agendas.

High horses are all well and good but do absolutely nothing to make the product of their highly active imagination real.

[Tom4784]

JTM hit the nail on the head plus too many people see patriotism as basically being 'Agree to everything I say or you're a TRAITOR!!!!' If that's the choice then I'd rather think for myself then be blinded by a dangerous oppressive attitude .

Originally Posted by Brillopad

'The backbone of Brexit is/has been badly informed because you say so - yep right!

Many labour politicians care little about things like social issues, ethnicity and diversity and what is best for the country and more about creating a nation of future Labour voters hence their keenness to let in hundreds of thousands of those future voters with little thought for the long-term effects on the country. It's all a manipulative pretence in the name of a power grab and political control to serve their selfish personal/political agendas.

High horses are all well and good but do absolutely nothing to make the product of their highly active imagination real.

Proof that what JTM said is true.

You can't argue against him so you're diverting attention to Labour when they won't really get a say in how Brexit is handled. How long will you continue to blame Labour for the Tories' **** ups? You're so desperate to pin everything on Jeremy Corbyn then you don't realise that the Tories are guilty of everything you accuse Labour of and I think you know that's the case.

Some people will believe the lie even if they know it's a lie and that's just sad.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

JTM hit the nail on the head plus too many people see patriotism as basically being 'Agree to everything I say or you're a TRAITOR!!!!' If that's the choice then I'd rather think for myself then be blinded by a dangerous oppressive attitude .



Proof that what JTM said is true.

You can't argue against him so you're diverting attention to Labour when they won't really get a say in how Brexit is handled. How long will you continue to blame Labour for the Tories' **** ups? You're so desperate to pin everything on Jeremy Corbyn then you don't realise that the Tories are guilty of everything you accuse Labour of and I think you know that's the case.

Some people will believe the lie even if they know it's a lie and that's just sad.

You set the bar for truth very low. Clutching at straws more like.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You set the bar for truth very low. Clutching at straws more like.

More diversion, more avoidance.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JTM45

Sounds like Theresa May's Tory 'Government' you're talking about here.

You're confusing 'Patriotism' with 'Nationalism', two very different things!
Nationalism is the blind flag-waving where people are willing to cut their nose off to spite their face with very little concern about the overall financial or social state of our country while true Patriots want what's best for our Country and those who live in it, regardless of ethnicity or political leaning.

Brexit was hijacked very early on by thinly veiled Nationalist xenophobes who put their personal agenda before what is really best in the long term for Britain and its citizens. Highly un-Patriotic.

The backbone of Brexit is and always has been badly informed and willfully ignorant people who whipped up insecurities, fears and phobias and spread mis-information to serve their selfish personal agenda.

possibly the most ignorant ill informed post ever made on this site
yes all 18 million were badly informed ignoramuses lol

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by the truth

possibly the most ignorant ill informed post ever made on this site
yes all 18 million were badly informed ignoramuses lol

Says the person who said only yesterday that ''democracy'' means you have the right to have help from anyone in any country (whether they're classed as an enemy of your country or not) to win an election.

I can't even come close to this level ignorance.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by JTM45

Sounds like Theresa May's Tory 'Government' you're talking about here.

You're confusing 'Patriotism' with 'Nationalism', two very different things!
Nationalism is the blind flag-waving where people are willing to cut their nose off to spite their face with very little concern about the overall financial or social state of our country while true Patriots want what's best for our Country and those who live in it, regardless of ethnicity or political leaning.

Brexit was hijacked very early on by thinly veiled Nationalist xenophobes who put their personal agenda before what is really best in the long term for Britain and its citizens. Highly un-Patriotic.

The backbone of Brexit is and always has been badly informed and willfully ignorant people who whipped up insecurities, fears and phobias and spread mis-information to serve their selfish personal agenda.

I think what you're saying is one of the reasons why people voted for Brexit.

I also do think that the Media not printing the pro's of why we should Remain in the EU was another big issue. And another reason was people thinking that Muslims would stop coming to the country (which was a real fact as I've heard people say it) and alot of it is all hokum.

[JTM45]

Agreed Mock.

Because Cameron (in the same way May did with her recent botched General Election debacle) had people so convinced and complacent in their assumption that a 'Remain' result was a foregone conclusion the Press did indeed massively neglect to properly clarify the reasons why staying in the EU was soimportant for the UK and just how detrimental Leaving the EU would be for us.

If there is one sentence that explains the referendum result it’s this one (from the website of the Advertising Standards Agency). ''For reasons of freedom of speech, we do not have remit over non-broadcast ads where the purpose of the ad is to persuade voters in a local, national or international electoral referendum''. In other words, political advertising is exempt from the regulation that would otherwise bar false claims and outrageous promises. You can’t claim that a herbal diet drink will make customers thinner, but you can (falsely) claim that £350m a week will go to the NHS instead of the European Union with the knowledge that by the time this claim is exposed as an utter and total LIE it will have already served its purpose and that nobody can be held accountable for knowingly lying.

It was noticeable how quickly the twin planks of the Leave campaign – extra money for the health service, and the implicit promise to cut immigration by ''taking back control'' of our borders – fell apart. On Good Morning Britain just hours after the result was declared, Nigel Farage decried the NHS pledge as a ''mistake'' . Devastatingly, for our Country and its future, it's a ''mistake'' with almost unimaginably massive negative implications for the future of the UK.

I still believe that an issue as massively important as leaving or staying in the EU with Nation destroying implications should have had at least two seperate vote no less than 6 months apart (preferably a year apart)to get a better informed result and i cannot see why anyone who truly wanted the best for our Country would want it any other way.

The result was so relatively narrow that i believe that had even something as simple as the debunking of the 'facts/lies' that were spread by UKIP happened before the vote (which were clearly fraudulent in their use) we would have had a different result. Even if two votes had ended up with a 'Leave' result at least there wouldn't be any doubt then about the legitimacy of the result.

If this all goes ahead (as it appears it will) when the full damage starts to become glaringly apparent it'll be far too late to do anything about it. It'll be our oldest and most needy people who'll probably suffer first and all of those shouters who are so vocal about Leaving the EU now will become apparent by their sudden silence as they slope back off into the shadows shrugging their shoulders and looking for a new ''Left'' excuse to blame for their mess.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by JTM45

Agreed Mock.

Because Cameron (in the same way May did with her recent botched General Election debacle) had people so convinced and complacent in their assumption that a 'Remain' result was a foregone conclusion the Press did indeed massively neglect to properly clarify the reasons why staying in the EU was soimportant for the UK and just how detrimental Leaving the EU would be for us.

If there is one sentence that explains the referendum result it’s this one (from the website of the Advertising Standards Agency). ''For reasons of freedom of speech, we do not have remit over non-broadcast ads where the purpose of the ad is to persuade voters in a local, national or international electoral referendum''. In other words, political advertising is exempt from the regulation that would otherwise bar false claims and outrageous promises. You can’t claim that a herbal diet drink will make customers thinner, but you can (falsely) claim that £350m a week will go to the NHS instead of the European Union with the knowledge that by the time this claim is exposed as an utter and total LIE it will have already served its purpose and that nobody can be held accountable for knowingly lying.

It was noticeable how quickly the twin planks of the Leave campaign – extra money for the health service, and the implicit promise to cut immigration by ''taking back control'' of our borders – fell apart. On Good Morning Britain just hours after the result was declared, Nigel Farage decried the NHS pledge as a ''mistake'' . Devastatingly, for our Country and its future, it's a ''mistake'' with almost unimaginably massive negative implications for the future of the UK.

I still believe that an issue as massively important as leaving or staying in the EU with Nation destroying implications should have had at least two seperate vote no less than 6 months apart (preferably a year apart)to get a better informed result and i cannot see why anyone who truly wanted the best for our Country would want it any other way.

The result was so relatively narrow that i believe that had even something as simple as the debunking of the 'facts/lies' that were spread by UKIP happened before the vote (which were clearly fraudulent in their use) we would have had a different result. Even if two votes had ended up with a 'Leave' result at least there wouldn't be any doubt then about the legitimacy of the result.

If this all goes ahead (as it appears it will) when the full damage starts to become glaringly apparent it'll be far too late to do anything about it. It'll be our oldest and most needy people who'll probably suffer first and all of those shouters who are so vocal about Leaving the EU now will become apparent by their sudden silence as they slope back off into the shadows shrugging their shoulders and looking for a new ''Left'' excuse to blame for their mess.

And many rightly believe that the indigenous people of a country should have a substantial say in the large scale change of the demographics of their country and culture - the country is in a mess as a result. The damage done is irriversible and will change the future for everyone and long-term will do much more damage than Brexit ever could. People have a right to their say - they had a say and some didn't like it so shout about it as if their opinions are more important than the majority who voted.

Having multiple votes until you get the 'right' vote would be an abuse of democracy and a dictatorship. It would be downright corruption. That would be a catastrophic mess and an absolute disaster for democracy.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And many rightly believe that the indigenous people of a country should have a substantial say in the large scale change of the demographics of their country and culture - the country is in a mess as a result. The damage done is irriverisible and will change the future of everyone. People have a right to their say - they had a say and some didn't like it so shout about it as if their opinions are more important than the majority who voted.

Having multiple votes until you get the 'right' vote would be an abuse of democracy and a dictatorship. It would be downright corruption. That would be a catastrophic mess and an absolute disaster for democracy.

Not a CLUE!!!!!

So you think a single vote in which people have been influenced by massive Lies (which Farage and many others ADMITTED were not true withing hours of the result) is true Democracy while two votes taking place with a settling period in between which would clearly give a far more balanced, informed and transparent result equals a ''dictatorship'' ?

You'd probably be happier living in Russia under Putin. A dictatorship thinly disguised as a democracy. Clearly better suited to your 'values'.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JTM45

Says the person who said only yesterday that ''democracy'' means you have the right to have help from anyone in any country (whether they're classed as an enemy of your country or not) to win an election.

I can't even come close to this level ignorance.

against someone as corrupt as warmonger killary you have to fight fire with fire...bernie sanders didnt and sadly he was destroyed

[Tom4784]

We shouldn't do another vote, people voted in ignorance, they believed obvious lies despite evidence saying otherwise because they valued the fiction of what Farage and others were saying because they were told what they wanted to hear.

Voting foolishly has consequences and people who voted foolishly need to feel the ramifications of their actions. they made their bed now they have to lie in it. **** giving these people a get out of jail free card via another vote, when things go to **** hopefully they'll learn to be smarter about voting in future.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

We shouldn't do another vote, people voted in ignorance, they believed obvious lies despite evidence saying otherwise because they valued the fiction of what Farage and others were saying because they were told what they wanted to hear.

Voting foolishly has consequences and people who voted foolishly need to feel the ramifications of their actions. they made their bed now they have to lie in it. **** giving these people a get out of jail free card via another vote, when things go to **** hopefully they'll learn to be smarter about voting in future.

The left voted in ignorance, the same way they bankrupted the country and killed a million iraqis too. Total ignorance.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

We shouldn't do another vote, people voted in ignorance, they believed obvious lies despite evidence saying otherwise because they valued the fiction of what Farage and others were saying because they were told what they wanted to hear.

Voting foolishly has consequences and people who voted foolishly need to feel the ramifications of their actions. they made their bed now they have to lie in it. **** giving these people a get out of jail free card via another vote, when things go to **** hopefully they'll learn to be smarter about voting in future.

DEZZY please add SOME
PEOPLE VOTED IN IGNORANCE



I voted on Sovereign grounds
WE WON the VOTE

Democracy - Suck It UP

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by the truth

The left voted in ignorance, the same way they bankrupted the country and killed a million iraqis too. Total ignorance.

Youtube video

[the truth]

Originally Posted by arista

DEZZY please add SOME
PEOPLE VOTED IN IGNORANCE



I voted on Sovereign grounds
WE WON the VOTE

Democracy - Suck It UP

Ahh a fellow fan of the truth, good man arista or as they say in Wales...Dda iawn