[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

no-one was completely informed at the time of the vote, so no-one could vote for anything more than a principal. The principle was that we are leaving the EU, that is happening, the details of that MUST be worked out for the maximum benefit of the country, not to satisfy individuals lust for whatever agenda they may have.

So you support a second referendum then by the sound of it. In the opinion of many that undermines a democratic vote - no-one said anything at the time that there would be a second referendum vote if some did not like the result. We were led to believe that was it. It is all clearly very convenient and agenda driven.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So you support a second referendum then by the sound of it. In the opinion of many that undermines a democratic vote - no-one said anything at the time that there would be a second referendum vote if some did not like the result. We were led to believe that was it. It is all clearly very convenient and agenda driven.

The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36306681

HOW MANY MORE TIMES AM I GOING TO HAVE TO POINT THIS OUT????

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jack_

The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36306681

HOW MANY MORE TIMES AM I GOING TO HAVE TO POINT THIS OUT????

that is unrelated to what Brillo said

Farage is not an MP and unfinished business is not "There will be another referendum" not that he would be able to do anything about that, not being part of the government

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Jack_

The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36306681

HOW MANY MORE TIMES AM I GOING TO HAVE TO POINT THIS OUT????

Farage has said a lot of stuff, shall we take that as gospel too?

[Tom4784]

It's easier to ignore the unholy mess that is the current Tory government as long as you can distract yourself with Corbyn hate.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So you support a second referendum then by the sound of it. In the opinion of many that undermines a democratic vote - no-one said anything at the time that there would be a second referendum vote if some did not like the result. We were led to believe that was it. It is all clearly very convenient and agenda driven.

no, i don't support a 2nd ref, the decision has been made

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's easier to ignore the unholy mess that is the current Tory government as long as you can distract yourself with Corbyn hate.

Np problems within the Labour Party then! Less than pretty mess themselves. As for 'hate' you seem pretty familiar with that and your hate of May.

[Tom4784]

A second referendum is pointless, people made their mistake and now they've got to live with the consequence of leaving with no plans in place and a government that doesn't really want to leave in the first place (which, ironically, the leavers voted for).

Democratic elections and referendums have consequences, a lot of people are gonna hopefully learn not to vote in ignorance once Brexit unfolds.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Np problems within the Labour Party then! Less than pretty mess themselves. As for 'hate' you seem pretty familiar with that and your hate of May.

You've just proved me right, Corbyn's not leading the current government, he is the opposition so focusing on him is silly since you are literally just ignoring what's actually happening within the government because you dislike reality. This isn't a labour government, focusing your hate on him won't make the Tories' mistakes go away.

You really need to learn to make good comparisons, comparing your Corbyn obsession to my dislike of May is, again, silly and nonsensical. I don't spend my days googling articles from any and all sources no matter how terrible they are (We shall never forget you quoting Buzzfed and Urban Dictionary as 'credible' sources).

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

that is unrelated to what Brillo said

Farage is not an MP and unfinished business is not "There will be another referendum" not that he would be able to do anything about that, not being part of the government

Except Brillo (and others) constantly talk about how 'remoaners' can't accept a democratic result and that in still continuing to campaign for a cause they believe in (whether they want a second referendum or not), they are anti-democracy. So I'm just pointing out (for the umpteenth time) that everyone's favourite Wanker Banker Nigel Farage himself pretty much said before the referendum that he'd be doing the same thing if the result had gone the other way.

But you knew that anyway

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Farage has said a lot of stuff, shall we take that as gospel too?

I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve that had the referendum result been the reverse, he'd have continued to campaign to leave the EU for the foreseeable future. And I'd have had no problem with that, just as I have no problem with those who wish to remain in the EU (or at least want a different kind of Brexit than this government does) protesting and campaigning for what they believe in either.

Unlike many people on this forum, I don't believe that democracy begins and ends at the ballot box. Unlike them, I'm not anti-democracy.

Just here to point out the double standards!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You were one of her biggest critics for her u-turns, but singing a different tune when it's Corbyn! No surprise there! :roll eyes:

The difference between the two is he has cemented what his stance is based on the good of the UK taking into account the wants and needs of citizens as well as the economy and business. He has in fact listened to what people want and reacted accordingly, it is in no way the same as the out and out lies told by may prior to the election.

Let's analyse the facts, what has May U turned on? All the policies that were offered carrot and stick style to the poor, disabled, homeless and low paid.
Can you deny that, could you give me one example where she hasn't gone back on manifesto pledges that directly disadvantage the most vulnerable?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You've just proved me right, Corbyn's not leading the current government, he is the opposition so focusing on him is silly since you are literally just ignoring what's actually happening within the government because you dislike reality. This isn't a labour government, focusing your hate on him won't make the Tories' mistakes go away.

You really need to learn to make good comparisons, comparing your Corbyn obsession to my dislike of May is, again, silly and nonsensical. I don't spend my days googling articles from any and all sources no matter how terrible they are (We shall never forget you quoting Buzzfed and Urban Dictionary as 'credible' sources).

You do like that word hate don't you, seeing as you use it all the time - it is just so emotive and hysterical, right up your street and good to throw around for effect.

Of course I don't like the man or his policies and when I see an article that I would like to pass comment on I will - what's your problem with that? To try to equate political discourse with real hate just dilutes and undermines the value of the word - again weak! This is a forum, you shouldn't have a problem with that unless of course you simply don't like people expressing opinions you don't agree with. Of course the Tories have made mistakes, I just believe Corbyn's will be worse - again what is the issue here?

'Spending my days googling articles' that is about as weak a dig as it gets: A) I have a service that brings up current news articles, so I don't have to google very much and B) I have been off work this week. Is that ok with you?

As for me ONCE quoting a buzzfeed article and ONCE an urban dictionary definition - where do I start!! You are the one spending your time tracking what sources I quote from, which is rather odd, and should therefore know the wide variety of sources I quote from - more than many who stick to the same biased tired old sources every time.

Honestly anyone would think you were trying to turn SD into a left-wing only opinion-based section.

[DemolitionRed]

Honestly anyone would think you were trying to turn SD into a left-wing only opinion-based section.

And from the number of posts you post, anyone would think you are trying to turn SD into a Right-wing, anti Islam based section.

Every time I come on here of late, there are numerous posts either demonizing Muslims or demonizing the Left. Whilst you may have a small fan club, there are many posters on here who adamantly disagree with your hard anti-Corbyn, anti-Left and anti-Islam rhetoric and you're not about to convert them. If you want everyone to agree with you then you can't post this sort of stuff on here.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

And from the number of posts you post, anyone would think you are trying to turn SD into a Right-wing, anti Islam based section.

Every time I come on here of late, there are numerous posts either demonizing Muslims or demonizing the Left. Whilst you may have a small fan club, there are many posters on here who adamantly disagree with your hard anti-Corbyn, anti-Left and anti-Islam rhetoric and you're not about to convert them. If you want everyone to agree with you then you can't post this sort of stuff on here.

Great point DR, needed to be said I agree, it's getting way beyond a joke. I can pick up a tabloid if I want this level of propaganda!

[waterhog]

don't hate him but he has not got a clue and is not a leader ? we are just on a loop and going round and round.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

And from the number of posts you post, anyone would think you are trying to turn SD into a Right-wing, anti Islam based section.

Every time I come on here of late, there are numerous posts either demonizing Muslims or demonizing the Left. Whilst you may have a small fan club, there are many posters on here who adamantly disagree with your hard anti-Corbyn, anti-Left and anti-Islam rhetoric and you're not about to convert them. If you want everyone to agree with you then you can't post this sort of stuff on here.

This used to be a great place for discussion but now it's just somewhere you have to bite your tongue while a few (very few) poorly informed, narrow-minded people shout their bitter propaganda.........again and again and again.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by JTM45

This used to be a great place for discussion but now it's just somewhere you have to bite your tongue while a few (very few) poorly informed, narrow-minded people shout their bitter propaganda.........again and again and again.

Truth is you and a few others can't handle opinions different to your own and constantly try to shut them down by name-calling or some other put down tactics. It really is pathetic and downright childish.

I post some anti-Corbyn threads and some threads on mass immigration. All stated in a reasonable way using reasonable language. I don't swear or use unacceptable terms but get called unacceptable names by a few for sharing opinions not in agreement with their own.

Corbyn and Mass immigration are very much current news at the moment - very high profile subjects, on the news and in the newspapers and are subjects that affect us all. Unfortunately a handful of people seem to be trying to enforce censorship on this site when people express strong views different to their own and effectively foot-stamp constantly.

Is this or is it not an adult forum for the expression of adult opinions because sometimes people could certainly be forgiven for thinking it wasn't. I have been made to feel uncomfortable by that same handful of people for sticking to my guns and not bowing downing to their attempted intimidation. I have posted some harmless articles mainly from national newspapers ffs - stop being such drama queens. And you talk of being bored.

Maybe I should see it as a compliment as the constant OTT reactions by that same few to my relatively harmless posts suggests to me that they see my posts as some kind of threat. Otherwise why wouldn't they simply ignore them or put me on ignore. Human behaviour can be so telling.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JTM45

This used to be a great place for discussion but now it's just somewhere you have to bite your tongue while a few (very few) poorly informed, narrow-minded people shout their bitter propaganda.........again and again and again.

Spot on again.

However I stress again how can this be a u-turn, when those anti Labour across the board,have criticised Labour for never spelling out brexit plans or policy.

Then call an announcement a u-turn.
That's the incorrect terminology of the whole statement of this thread.

It was believed in hopefully 2 years by this govt,that we would have all in place to be out the EU in that time.
Business and other sources have warned possibly years of a slower transition will be needed,
Even this govt. now accepts that is 'more' than likely.

So Labour feel for that transitional period,we should remain in the single market.
There's no u turn,just a realisation of what is best or needed until we reach full severance from the EU.

Corbyn is still taking the UK out of the EU,nothings changed there at all.
He and Labour would still after the transition period,cessation full membership of the single market on current terms.

As a leader he has to lead but also has to listen,just as in the new reality of politics now,Mrs May has to listen to her more moderate voices on Europe again in her own govt.

The bile that gets thrown Corbyn and Labour on every reaction to political change on plans from the govt.is really tiresome.
Especially when all the alterations of original plans of the govt are glossed over and sidestepped by those simply pushing their own bias against a Party and leader they don't personally like.

That is not reasoned debating at all,nor is it 'seeking' reasoned debate either, as you sort of point out in your post above.

[Crimson Dynamo]

a member insults tibb forum members, mods and admin and another member comes on to post an agreement

wow

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Spot on again.

However I stress again how can this be a u-turn, when those anti Labour across the board,have criticised Labour for never spelling out brexit plans or policy.

Then call an announcement a u-turn.
That's the incorrect terminology of the whole statement of this thread.

It was believed in hopefully 2 years by this govt,that we would have all in place to be out the EU in that time.
Business and other sources have warned possibly years of a slower transition will be needed,
Even this govt. now accepts that is 'more' than likely.

So Labour feel for that transitional period,we should remain in the single market.
There's no u turn,just a realisation of what is best or needed until we reach full severance from the EU.

Corbyn is still taking the UK out of the EU,nothings changed there at all.
He and Labour would still after the transition period,cessation full membership of the single market on current terms.

As a leader he has to lead but also has to listen,just as in the new reality of politics now,Mrs May has to listen to her more moderate voices on Europe again in her own govt.

The bile that gets thrown Corbyn and Labour on every reaction to political change on plans from the govt.is really tiresome.
Especially when all the alterations of original plans of the govt are glossed over and sidestepped by those simply pushing their own bias against a Party and leader they don't personally like.

That is not reasoned debating at all,nor is it 'seeking' reasoned debate either, as you sort of point out in your post above.

I assume you are not conveniently forgeting the bile thrown at May at the election, often from those making the most fuss at any criticism of Corben, often sinking as low as insulting her looks. Is that ok in your book then? Not at all one-sided then. Accept it, admit it - non-left-wing opinions are not well accepted on here by some and censorship is attempted by the worst offenders.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Spot on again.

However I stress again how can this be a u-turn, when those anti Labour across the board,have criticised Labour for never spelling out brexit plans or policy.

Then call an announcement a u-turn.
That's the incorrect terminology of the whole statement of this thread.

It was believed in hopefully 2 years by this govt,that we would have all in place to be out the EU in that time.
Business and other sources have warned possibly years of a slower transition will be needed,
Even this govt. now accepts that is 'more' than likely.

So Labour feel for that transitional period,we should remain in the single market.
There's no u turn,just a realisation of what is best or needed until we reach full severance from the EU.

Corbyn is still taking the UK out of the EU,nothings changed there at all.
He and Labour would still after the transition period,cessation full membership of the single market on current terms.

As a leader he has to lead but also has to listen,just as in the new reality of politics now,Mrs May has to listen to her more moderate voices on Europe again in her own govt.

The bile that gets thrown Corbyn and Labour on every reaction to political change on plans from the govt.is really tiresome.
Especially when all the alterations of original plans of the govt are glossed over and sidestepped by those simply pushing their own bias against a Party and leader they don't personally like.

That is not reasoned debating at all,nor is it 'seeking' reasoned debate either, as you sort of point out in your post above.

I fully support this shift in Labour policy and I'd love to have a reasoned debate on this new political strategy but I don't feel I can do that here because the title of this thread made it clear from the get go, that this is just another thread about damning Corbyn.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I fully support this shift in Labour policy and I'd love to have a reasoned debate on this new political strategy but I don't feel I can do that here because the title of this thread made it clear from the get go, that this is just another thread about damning Corbyn.

make a thread then..

[Brillopad]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-policy-change

Labour MPs warn of backlash if Corbyn shifts Brexit stance - which was my point exactly.

[Brillopad]

http://www.cityam.com/271894/corbyns...abject-failure

A cunning man indeed, but not quite cunning enough. He played dirty and now he is lying with his face in the mud.

[Withano]

"Ok Google, search the web for Corbyn is very very bad"
*copies link, opens tibb, pastes link*