[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Alf

I'm hearing that central London tube in bomb threat lockdown, Police sniffer dogs blocking off streets.

It was in Liverpool street. Thank god it was a false alarm. I used to work there before.

[Alf]

2 more people have been arrested in Newport, Wales over the attempted bombing on the London Subway.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

So you think every terrorist attack in the West is due to our governments' actions abroad? And you place no blame on the individuals' indoctrination and extremism?

Naive.

Virtually none of the actual victims had any participation in "terrorism" abroad.

I think much of terrorism in the West is due to our government's actions abroad... yes.

A murderer is a murderer whether it be government or some random radicalized idiot... Yes, I do place blame on individuals but blame isn't helping to stop this. Take away the cause and the effect eventually ceases.

None of the victims in the UK had any participation in terrorism abroad. Many of the innocents abroad had any participation in terrorism. The sad point is,
terrorists have a tendency to kill innocents.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That's the point though we do have some control - by not letting in thousands of undocumented economic migrants who once in often 'disappear'. Tightening our borders and generally being more careful who we let in is self-preservation.

And what about the ones who were born here?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I think much of terrorism in the West is due to our government's actions abroad... yes.

A murderer is a murderer whether it be government or some random radicalized idiot... Yes, I do place blame on individuals but blame isn't helping to stop this. Take away the cause and the effect eventually ceases.

None of the victims in the UK had any participation in terrorism abroad. Many of the innocents abroad had any participation in terrorism. The sad point is,
terrorists have a tendency to kill innocents.

This is what I don't understand the inability to see how our actions in the past have impacted in the future, that was a great term 'cause and effect' it sums it up in a nutshell doesn't it?
Cause = conflict effect= terrorism

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

And what about the ones who were born here?

We are stuck with terrorists born here, but it should be a lesson learned. We certainly shouldn't just go on repeating the same mistakes by letting in thousands more undocumented economic migrants.

You seem to have the mind-set that if we already have some terrorists we might as well welcome more and increase the risk even further. Yep, makes real sense.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This is what I don't understand the inability to see how our actions in the past have impacted in the future, that was a great term 'cause and effect' it sums it up in a nutshell doesn't it?
Cause = conflict effect= terrorism

so we deserve it, I see.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This is what I don't understand the inability to see how our actions in the past have impacted in the future, that was a great term 'cause and effect' it sums it up in a nutshell doesn't it?
Cause = conflict effect= terrorism

So terrorism is an inevitable effect of conflict is it? Only in warped, indoctrinated minds.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

so we deserve it, I see.

Unbelievable... Is that all you see, I'm glad I don't have such a black and white perspective. That isn't what I said is it ?... At all.
Again you are struggling to debate preferring to make half baked accusations without attempting to look at my post with a degree of objectivity.
I'm not angry, just disappointed.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So terrorism is an inevitable effect of conflict is it? Only in warped, indoctrinated minds.

Name a conflict in our recent history that we have been directly involved with that hasn't resulted in terrorist activity.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Name a conflict in our recent history that we have been directly involved with that hasn't resulted in terrorist activity.

Terrorist activity comes from a dark and unstable place and to suggest otherwise is madness.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Unbelievable... Is that all you see, I'm glad I don't have such a black and white perspective. That isn't what I said is it ?... At all.
Again you are struggling to debate preferring to make half baked accusations without attempting to look at my post with a degree of objectivity.
I'm not angry, just disappointed.

I don't really care whether you are angry or disappointed, normal citizens of the UK or any of the other countries which have been attacked by ISIS have no say over whether we get involved in conflicts or not, so no we don't deserve it, and as others have pointed out, you get involved you are damned, you don't get involved you are equally damned, all I see from your posts is that you are are happy to excuse killing indiscriminately on home soil because the UK has got involved in overseas wars. If we are not to get involved maybe we shouldn't take refugees either, you can't have it every way..

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

We are stuck with terrorists born here, but it should be a lesson learned. We certainly shouldn't just go on repeating the same mistakes by letting in thousands more undocumented economic migrants.

You seem to have the mind-set that if we already have some terrorists we might as well welcome more and increase the risk even further. Yep, makes real sense

What an ignorant blinkered view... that migrants = terrorists because it has happened... that is your evidence for effectively building a wall around the UK?

It's reactionary and small minded, what happened to 'Great Britain' world leaders? AAA rated first world powerhouse?
Your view reduces us to sniveling backwater!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

These are exactly the kind of people that isis want they are ideal candidates for radicalisation as such they should be taken more seriously not less.
The claims of racism would be made by whom? Counter terrorism units don't take an advert out in the paper when they monitor individuals.

The individual if he was interrogated over flying to Libya?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This is what I don't understand the inability to see how our actions in the past have impacted in the future, that was a great term 'cause and effect' it sums it up in a nutshell doesn't it?
Cause = conflict effect= terrorism

It's not "our" actions though.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What an ignorant blinkered view... that migrants = terrorists because it has happened... that is your evidence for effectively building a wall around the UK?

It's reactionary and small minded, what happened to 'Great Britain' world leaders? AAA rated first world powerhouse?
Your view reduces us to sniveling backwater!

What will it take for you to react. How many have to die first? Or will you always ignore the risk factor and hope for the best?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Terrorist activity comes from a dark and unstable place and to suggest otherwise is madness.

True *see home grown terrorism*
past and present governments AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE opted for action... and we shouldn't be surprised that there are those who place the blame on our doorstep.

It happens, how we counter it is not ramping up more fear and reprisal.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

True *see home grown terrorism*
past and present governments AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE opted for action... and we shouldn't be surprised that there are those who place the blame on our doorstep.

It happens, how we counter it is not ramping up more fear and reprisal.

No, we just don't give more an open invitation to do so.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Cherie

so we deserve it, I see.

Nobody deserves it. The millions killed in the middle east didn't deserve it and the innocents now being used in 'eye for an eye' attacks don't deserve it.

If we have to sit on the chessboard of western globalization/imperialism then we have to relay some of this blame on our own government. We have to understand that for every force there is a counterforce.

When we go into Iran and we will, it will only be a matter of time before Iranians start to take revenge here. The government knows this but the riches in Iran are too great to ignore.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

What will it take for you to react. How many have to die first? Or will you always ignore the risk factor and hope for the best?

The risk is there until there is a resolution, that is just a fact.
We cannot put up walls or ignore those in need especially due to the fact that they are in need due to a situation we aided in!

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The risk is there until there is a resolution, that is just a fact.
We cannot put up walls or ignore those in need especially due to the fact that they are in need due to a situation we aided in!

So if you had your way we would let in as many undocumented economic migrants as want to come here and to hell with the risk to everyone else.

That is what I consider scary.

Note that most of these migrants were in a position to pay smugglers and most looked relatively healthy. What about the millions of starving people in Africa. Clearly in more need but not well enough or well off enough to travel. If we could get them here do we take them too? Perhaps we should just completely evacuate the third world and somehow fit everyone into Europe.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Alf

Not one

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politic...o-11186601.amp

Bloody disgraceful. They certainly demonstrated where their allegiances lie - and it clearly isn't with Britain. Shouldn't mindsets trump place of birth as one is clearly much more relevant than the other. Chuck them out for good.

Maybe we could find them an island somewhere, thousands of miles from anywhere, where they can fight amongst themselves and blow each other up to their hearts content.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So if you had your way we would let in as many undocumented economic migrants as want to come here and to hell with the risk to everyone else.

That is what I consider scary.

Note that most of these migrants were in a position to pay smugglers and most looked relatively healthy. What about the millions of starving people in Africa. Clearly in more need but not well enough or well off enough to travel. If we could get them here do we take them too? Perhaps we should just completely evacuate the third world and somehow fit everyone into Europe.

There's very little point in anyone debating with you, until you learn to read posts properly it seems. You take statements, put them out of context and then warp them to suit your agenda instead of actually arguing against what was actually said.

Kizzy said that we can't ignore people in help especially when we played a role in their predicament, how in the blue ****ing hell does that translate into 'unrestricted immigration for all!' Truly poor reading comprehension skills on display here. Poor skills motivated by bigotry and racism.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The risk is there until there is a resolution, that is just a fact.
We cannot put up walls or ignore those in need especially due to the fact that they are in need due to a situation we aided in!

Exactly.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So if you had your way we would let in as many undocumented economic migrants as want to come here and to hell with the risk to everyone else.

That is what I consider scary.

Note that most of these migrants were in a position to pay smugglers and most looked relatively healthy. What about the millions of starving people in Africa. Clearly in more need but not well enough or well off enough to travel. If we could get them here do we take them too? Perhaps we should just completely evacuate the third world and somehow fit everyone into Europe.

We take more Africans than any other nation.