[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Wish my kids were like this. They are always given a few different veg as part of their main meals. Never forced to eat it (I don't pressure them to eat anything, besides telling them that if they don't eat the healthy stuff they aren't getting desert...if that counts as forcing ), but its fairly rare that they will eat it without some form of bribing, and sometimes refuse even with that.

I was a dodgy kid like this and the picky eating is still with me tbh. I used to refuse all veg besides carrots, where my brother and sister ate veg a fair bit (but still not as often as my parents would have liked) so it clearly wasn't anything my parents did wrong if 2/3 kids were healthier eaters

I half agree with Jaxie and half disagree, I think in some cases it's bad parenting but in others it's just down to the child.

It reminds me of a friend of my mothers, she had two boys, the first was as good as gold as a baby slept away, did what he was told when he was a toddler etc and she used to think to herself "I don't know what's wrong with people, this is easy, it's the parents fault blah blah" and then she had her second son lol and he was a tyrant she raised him exactly the same as the first, he was just a different person

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I don't really believe this adage that kids won't eat green or other vegetables. I think bad eating habits are given to kids by people like my sister in law. If the veg is available but they aren't forced to eat it then I've found most kids will happily eat it. If they don't like something don't force it, try something else. I think one of the problems with children and veg is being forced to eat badly cooked veg. There is a huge difference between cabbage with the life boiled out of it and cabbage tossed in a little olive oil, salt and pepper, and a few tablespoons of water until soft. But saying they won't eat it is a myth.

I 100% believe that if you have kids who will eat green veg - specifically green veg as that's where you get iron - then it's more down to luck than anything else. Neither of mine will touch it, and I don't know many who will eat much of it easily.

A few mouthfuls here and there isn't a sufficient nutrient replacement for meat.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I half agree with Jaxie and half disagree, I think in some cases it's bad parenting but in others it's just down to the child.

It reminds me of a friend of my mothers, she had two boys, the first was as good as gold as a baby slept away, did what he was told when he was a toddler etc and she used to think to herself "I don't know what's wrong with people, this is easy, it's the parents fault blah blah" and then she had her second son lol and he was a tyrant she raised him exactly the same as the first, he was just a different person

haha! sounds like our experience.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

haha! sounds like our experience.

My two were very good in general, it was a major struggle to get my daughter to eat veg though when she was very young, my son was always very good for eating them though. Now they're older it seems to have switched around

[Vicky.]

Yeah Skye slept through the night by like 2 weeks old. Even went a few solid 12 hour stretches when she was a few days old. We assumed it was something that we did right, where others just pandered too much and that.

Then came James. Who still does not consistently sleep through the night aged 3 Despite everything being done the same.

So many things are just luck of the draw with kids I think. yes parenting can make a difference, but not always

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yeah Skye slept through the night by like 2 weeks old. Even went a few solid 12 hour stretches when she was a few days old. We assumed it was something that we did right, where others just pandered too much and that.

Then came James. Who still does not consistently sleep through the night aged 3 Despite everything being done the same.

So many things are just luck of the draw with kids I think. yes parenting can make a difference, but not always

Absolutely, of course the way you parent has a massive effect but also, kids are individuals with different personalities too

[arista]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

TBH I find there's a lot of idealism from people who haven't actually had children, when it comes to children and veganism.

Most children forced onto a vegan diet end up with an iron deficiency, or even anemia. This is what is causing the pale skin and lethargy. Now, this is where vegans start crowing about how many other sources of food, such as green veg, contain plentiful iron to replace the loss from not eating meat.

I challenge you to try to get a child to actually eat green veg. Most children simply will not eat enough of it to replace the iron source lost from not eating meat. They'll load up on grain-based carbs and fruit no problem. They're not going to eat brocolli. It just isn't going to magically happen. "Oh but if that's what they're used to getting" blah blah blah NO... the people saying this are almost exclusively childless and are talking ****. Or they're the vegan mummies pretending that their pale, lethargic child does indeed eat all of his green veg. Spoiler: He doesn't really.

tl;dr I think it's a perfectly acceptable, great even, diet for adults but until there are genuine replacement products that children will actually reliably eat that contain the lost essentials... it is a selfish and dangerous decision to make for a child. Humans are omnivores by nature. It may be more morally correct to be herbivore and with a varied diet it is totally possible but, no, it is not natural; it is a decision, and decisions are for individuals to make, not for parents to force upon their children. Let them eat a natural, varied human diet until they are old enough to make the decision themselves and then by all means encourage it... when they are old enough to understand nutrition and why it's important to eat the "yucky parts".

Yes Prof T.S.
Fascist Parents etc.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

TBH I find there's a lot of idealism from people who haven't actually had children, when it comes to children and veganism.

Most children forced onto a vegan diet end up with an iron deficiency, or even anemia. This is what is causing the pale skin and lethargy. Now, this is where vegans start crowing about how many other sources of food, such as green veg, contain plentiful iron to replace the loss from not eating meat.

I challenge you to try to get a child to actually eat green veg. Most children simply will not eat enough of it to replace the iron source lost from not eating meat. They'll load up on grain-based carbs and fruit no problem. They're not going to eat brocolli. It just isn't going to magically happen. "Oh but if that's what they're used to getting" blah blah blah NO... the people saying this are almost exclusively childless and are talking ****. Or they're the vegan mummies pretending that their pale, lethargic child does indeed eat all of his green veg. Spoiler: He doesn't really.

tl;dr I think it's a perfectly acceptable, great even, diet for adults but until there are genuine replacement products that children will actually reliably eat that contain the lost essentials... it is a selfish and dangerous decision to make for a child. Humans are omnivores by nature. It may be more morally correct to be herbivore and with a varied diet it is totally possible but, no, it is not natural; it is a decision, and decisions are for individuals to make, not for parents to force upon their children. Let them eat a natural, varied human diet until they are old enough to make the decision themselves and then by all means encourage it... when they are old enough to understand nutrition and why it's important to eat the "yucky parts".

I agree that a balanced diet is important however I would say that quality over quantity is important ethically raised or organic for maximum nutrient benefit something that children from the poorest families although eating meat are seriously deficient in, it is they that are pasty and essentially malnourished.

As for children turning their noses up at brassicas it's possibly due to the bitter taste had they been exposed at weaning or maybe even in utero this would be different, my two don't turn their noses up at anything. I made food and they ate it no question there was no alternative.
I consider it 'modern' parenting to offer a compromise.

[DemolitionRed]

I won't eat Lobster because of the way its slaughtered and I won't eat veal or foie gras because of the way its raised.

[jaxie]

Re the eating horses discussion, while I wouldn't want to eat a horse because I find them beautiful and girls and ponies and stuff, many horses will have medication in them that people shouldn't eat. Race horses for instance aren't meant to go into the food chain.

I also don't eat lobster, or any shellfish boiled alive.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Wish my kids were like this. They are always given a few different veg as part of their main meals. Never forced to eat it (I don't pressure them to eat anything, besides telling them that if they don't eat the healthy stuff they aren't getting desert...if that counts as forcing ), but its fairly rare that they will eat it without some form of bribing, and sometimes refuse even with that.

I was a dodgy kid like this and the picky eating is still with me tbh. I used to refuse all veg besides carrots, where my brother and sister ate veg a fair bit (but still not as often as my parents would have liked) so it clearly wasn't anything my parents did wrong if 2/3 kids were healthier eaters

There is nothing wrong with carrots. If you liked them I'd just make sure they were there. If you are a fussy eater it is possible your kids could just follow and pick up on it. No two people are exactly the same and there will always be some who don't like certain things. I just think that people make a lot out of the eating vegetables and it often becomes a pressure or a thing, kids are very intuitive. I've even had kids round for tea in the past who have eaten broccoli and had a mother point blank refuse to believe it. But they ate it happliy, probably because the other kids were eating it, all big eyed about who shrunk the trees.

Another thing I've always done is used plenty of veg in the cooking, curry with broccoli and cauliflower chopped in is really nice. If it all comes out of a pot in a nice sauce half the time they don't even notice. Also a lot of kids seem to prefer raw veggies with a mayo dip but that's ok, probably more healthy than cooked if you don't overdo the Mayo.

Have you ever tried tossing your cabbage in a little (tablespoon) olive oil and water? It Cooks in less than five minutes in a frying pan. It is really nice. Go for a light green cabbage the ones that look a bit like an iceberg lettuce. I hated brussel sprouts so I roast them with the potatoes, they are fantastic roasted.

I didn't eat greens much as a kid, partly due to being a bit neglected and partly because when my mother did cook she stewed the life out of it. But I found as an adult that I quite liked them if they were cooked nicely. And at the end of the day if they will only eat carrots and sweet corn and peas, give them that.

And runner beans, love runner beans! Throw them in the curry and the stir fry! Put them in the spaghetti sauce so they have to wind them on a fork with the spaghetti.

[Vicky.]

Yup believe me we have tried pretty much everything to make veg more tasty. Sometimes we can get it down them just by putting a thick coating of gravy over it all But sometimes that doesn't work either. My daughter will actually sit and pick out all veg from curries and such. She has a bit of a thing for the heinz big soups at the minute though (the ones with large chunks of veg, not the creamy crap), but sits picking out the individual peas...so strange. I don't understand kids at all tbh. My son is less picky and will eat pretty much anything he is given and seems to enjoy it. But often if Skye is being awkward he will just copy her so goes without too.

Gav loves his veg and is a great cook so that side of stuff tends to be down to him. I usually don't eat til the kids are in bed as I am so worried about them picking up my issues with healthy stuff So I don't think they have picked it up from me as he nearly always eats with them and his plate is always piles high with everything healthy

Kids LOVE my mash though, as does Gavin. Not sure why my mash is so nice but apparently it is. I can sneak veg to them that way as I have always done it when making it for them, mash turnip and such into it and they just think its normal mash

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

horse blahblah

Yeah, I think people mistakenly think horses are extra intelligent tbh

[Morgan.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yup believe me we have tried pretty much everything to make veg more tasty. Sometimes we can get it down them just by putting a thick coating of gravy over it all But sometimes that doesn't work either. My daughter will actually sit and pick out all veg from curries and such. She has a bit of a thing for the heinz big soups at the minute though (the ones with large chunks of veg, not the creamy crap), but sits picking out the individual peas...so strange. I don't understand kids at all tbh. My son is less picky and will eat pretty much anything he is given and seems to enjoy it. But often if Skye is being awkward he will just copy her so goes without too.

Gav loves his veg and is a great cook so that side of stuff tends to be down to him. I usually don't eat til the kids are in bed as I am so worried about them picking up my issues with healthy stuff So I don't think they have picked it up from me as he nearly always eats with them and his plate is always piles high with everything healthy

Kids LOVE my mash though, as does Gavin. Not sure why my mash is so nice but apparently it is. I can sneak veg to them that way as I have always done it when making it for them, mash turnip and such into it and they just think its normal mash

This is me from about age 7 and still do now (16). I was diagnosed with an eating disorder to do with the textures of food so if I don't like how something feels in my mouth then I won't eat it. My parents never chose to correct it because they didn't want me to be forced to eat things I dislike - so things like onion, mushroom, spinach, cooked carrots, broccoli etc all have to be either taken out of my food or chopped up really small (we have a little machine that does this for us :P ) becaus eotherwise I don't touch it.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Re the eating horses discussion, while I wouldn't want to eat a horse because I find them beautiful and girls and ponies and stuff, many horses will have medication in them that people shouldn't eat. Race horses for instance aren't meant to go into the food chain.

I also don't eat lobster, or any shellfish boiled alive.

I used to run a horse yard and have always owned horses. Horses that are on any sort of medication or who have recently been on medication, cannot be sold to the meat chain, not even for pet food. That being said, there are unscrupulous slaughtermen. There was a case about 12 years ago where stollen ponies were being taken to an unlicensed abattoir on the Isle of White. Fortunately, horses have to now have a passport, which means horses can no longer be purchased at market without full id and id means everything is traceable, including ownership veterinary records.

The horses and ponies that get sold on for meat are mainly Dartmoor/Exmoor and New Forrest wild ponies. Retired racehorses do end up in the meat chain but tragically, they usually get shipped on the hoof to foreign lands for that slaughter.

Whilst I agree with a lot of what Jack says about death being death regardless of the animal; having worked for so long with horses, I feel as though I've gained a spiritual connection with these wonderful beasts. For that reason, I couldn't bring myself to eat horse meat. Its the same with cats and dogs. I've owned and deeply connected with both and so eating them would be like eating my fellow man.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

'modern' parenting.

God forbid!

[waterhog]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Yeah, I think people mistakenly think horses are extra intelligent tbh

I am not sure if I had horse but the next morning omg was I trotting