[y.winter]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yes, some vegetarians are healthy and know how to replace what they lose from meat, but a lot aren't. Theres a kid at my daughters school with vegan parents who have forced their beliefs onto their child and my god, she looks like a walking skeleton, grey tinge to her skin too...clearly not healthy. My daughter says she cries at school when others get stuff likle roast beef dinners, chicken burgers and stuff as she really wants it, poor kid.

(Apparently my daughter gave this kid her beef at one stage, as my daughter doesn't like beef anyway and the kid apparently loved it. Expecting hell on from the parents at some stage, but the teachers obviously did not see, or didn't tell them...so its only if the kid slips up and says something )

Well, the problem is with the parents, not with veganism. There are children to meat eaters that are badly nourished as well, yet no one blames it on their meat eating habit. I guess you wouldn't go and blame so quickly parents who let their kids go to mcdonalds every other day... The hospitals are full of heart-disease patients who eat meat, and yet it will still take only a single vegan to join them to throw that "UGH those unhealthy vegans!". It's populism at its best.
Also, that "forced their beliefs" is as valid as saying that meat eaters parents force their animal-abuse based eating habits on their "poor" naive children that don't know that they eat corpses of tortured animals (and I didn't even start talking about its health prospect).
Veganism is a wonderful and healthy diet for all ages (ask W.H.O) and when you're doing it right (like other diets, there's no exception, and a lot of non-vegans fail at it miserably) - there's nothing to question about it. No protein deficiencies, no iron deficiencies, well balanced level of cholesterol, great blood test results over and over again, non-compromising taste and quality of food - this is my personal experience for years and years (and others too).
People love to blindly bash veganism, but reality has more to offer other than superficial notions.
Who's afraid of veggies?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by y.winter

Well, the problem is with the parents, not with veganism. There are children to meat eaters that are badly nourished as well, yet no one blames it on their meat eating habit. I guess you wouldn't go and blame so quickly parents who let their kids go to mcdonalds every other day... The hospitals are full of heart-disease patients who eat meat, and yet it will still take only a single vegan to join them to throw that "UGH those unhealthy vegans!". It's populism at its best.
Also, that "forced their beliefs" is as valid as saying that meat eaters parents force their animal-abuse based eating habits on their "poor" naive children that don't know that they eat corpses of tortured animals (and I didn't even start talking about its health prospect).
Veganism is a wonderful and healthy diet for all ages (ask W.H.O) and when you're doing it right (like other diets, there's no exception, and a lot of non-vegans fail at it miserably) - there's nothing to question about it. No protein deficiencies, no iron deficiencies, well balanced level of cholesterol, great blood test results over and over again, non-compromising taste and quality of food - this is my personal experience for years and years (and others too).
People love to blindly bash veganism, but reality has more to offer other than superficial notions.
Who's afraid of veggies?

An American friend of mine was having a party once when she noticed her small finger was swollen and painful. By the next day every finger, on one hand, looked like a sausage. Tests confirmed she had early onset rheumatoid arthritis and she was offered steroid injections (something she would have to have for the rest of her life). Fortunately for her, she comes from a wealthy family. She flew out to see a specialist in California and it was strongly suggested she went onto a vegan diet immediately. She gave it a try. Within weeks the swelling and pain subsided. Fifteen years later she's still a strict vegan who has never had another flare-up of rheumatoid arthritis.

For people who suffer inflammatory diseases of the joints, a vegetarian diet is good and a vegan diet is excellent.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by y.winter

Well, the problem is with the parents, not with veganism. There are children to meat eaters that are badly nourished as well, yet no one blames it on their meat eating habit. I guess you wouldn't go and blame so quickly parents who let their kids go to mcdonalds every other day... The hospitals are full of heart-disease patients who eat meat, and yet it will still take only a single vegan to join them to throw that "UGH those unhealthy vegans!". It's populism at its best.
Also, that "forced their beliefs" is as valid as saying that meat eaters parents force their animal-abuse based eating habits on their "poor" naive children that don't know that they eat corpses of tortured animals (and I didn't even start talking about its health prospect).
Veganism is a wonderful and healthy diet for all ages (ask W.H.O) and when you're doing it right (like other diets, there's no exception, and a lot of non-vegans fail at it miserably) - there's nothing to question about it. No protein deficiencies, no iron deficiencies, well balanced level of cholesterol, great blood test results over and over again, non-compromising taste and quality of food - this is my personal experience for years and years (and others too).
People love to blindly bash veganism, but reality has more to offer other than superficial notions.
Who's afraid of veggies?

Afraid of veggies?

I would absolutely b e judging parents who gave their kids mcdonalds everyday tbh. But its the mcdonalds that would be the issue, not the meat itself

I have a fairly bad view about vegans mainly as every one I know...once they went vegan became unhealthy as they clearly did not manage their diet properly. Yes it can be done, but it seems most do not do it. A fair amount of veggies I know are the same too...but vegetarians seem to do so much better than vegans. Yes not all vegans and so on, but when 100% of the people you know who went vegan ended up looking severely ill and with multiple health problems...well it kind of darkens your view on it tbh and I still think it should be down to the kids choice if they wish to eat meat or not. I see it as not dissimilar to my daughter refusing to eat beef. So we don't give her beef, forcing her to eat it would be wrong. Equally if she wanted to try something, we would let her try it

So basically, personal view, grand. Forcing it on others, not. Most vegans, not healthy. Some veggies are. But either way, should be the kids choice and I find it just cruel to keep denying the child something they clearly want and could benefit from

I even know someone who forced vegetarianism on their cat ffs. Forced being the operative word, as the poor miserable thing is now dead..which I am sure its happy for.

[y.winter]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Afraid of veggies?

I would absolutely b e judging parents who gave their kids mcdonalds everyday tbh. But its the mcdonalds that would be the issue, not the meat itself

I have a fairly bad view about vegans mainly as every one I know...once they went vegan became unhealthy as they clearly did not manage their diet properly. Yes it can be done, but it seems most do not do it. A fair amount of veggies I know are the same too...but vegetarians seem to do so much better than vegans. Yes not all vegans and so on, but when 100% of the people you know who went vegan ended up looking severely ill and with multiple health problems...well it kind of darkens your view on it tbh and I still think it should be down to the kids choice if they wish to eat meat or not. I see it as not dissimilar to my daughter refusing to eat beef. So we don't give her beef, forcing her to eat it would be wrong. Equally if she wanted to try something, we would let her try it

So basically, personal view, grand. Forcing it on others, not. Most vegans, not healthy. Some veggies are. But either way, should be the kids choice and I find it just cruel to keep denying the child something they clearly want and could benefit from

I even know someone who forced vegetarianism on their cat ffs. Forced being the operative word, as the poor miserable thing is now dead..which I am sure its happy for.

Going to the gym and lifting some weights doesn't mean you're helping your body, you could quite easily harm yourself - it's all about doing it right. Same goes with diet and nutrition.
For me, it comes to show how badly educated people are when it comes to plant based food. When fruits and vegetables almost go under the same group in the (allegedly) food pyramid they teach you in school, when in reality it has so much layers and they differ from each other in so many aspects. When I'm getting asked "of you're vegan? So what do you have to eat?" I love to joke and answer "lettuce", because I find it funny that once you take dairy products and meat from the equation, people don't know where to begin with - and it's ridiculous, because there's so much to begin with and the variety is enormous without even touching the fake meat and like-milk category. Just replacing your meat meals with veggie burgers and other supermarket-bought frozen vegan meals and your yogurt with soy based one -doesn't mean you're doing it right. But people think they are, when it's actually mostly junk food with zero nutritional values.
In regards to the child thing - eating animals is not more of a default diet than a vegan diet is, it's rather your own personal opinion/social convention (not necessarily a right one). There's nothing unbalanced and non beneficial in vegan diet (in fact it has more than many other diets). People don't know how to deal with it because of bad/lack of education - this is where it falls.
And as for the cat lady - yeah, I have come across a lot of weird people, vegans and non vegans, so the way I see it, it's nothing but ad hominem.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by y.winter

Going to the gym and lifting some weights doesn't mean you're helping your body, you could quite easily harm yourself - it's all about doing it right. Same goes with diet and nutrition.
For me, it comes to show how badly educated people are when it comes to plant based food. When fruits and vegetables almost go under the same group in the (allegedly) food pyramid they teach you in school, when in reality it has so much layers and they differ from each other in so many aspects. When I'm getting asked "of you're vegan? So what do you have to eat?" I love to joke and answer "lettuce", because I find it funny that once you take dairy products and meat from the equation, people don't know where to begin with - and it's ridiculous, because there's so much to begin with and the variety is enormous without even touching the fake meat and like-milk category. Just replacing your meat meals with veggie burgers and other supermarket-bought frozen vegan meals and your yogurt with soy based one -doesn't mean you're doing it right. But people think they are, when it's actually mostly junk food with zero nutritional values.
In regards to the child thing - eating animals is not more of a default diet than a vegan diet is, it's rather your own personal opinion/social convention (not necessarily a right one). There's nothing unbalanced and non beneficial in vegan diet (in fact it has more than many other diets). People don't know how to deal with it because of bad/lack of education - this is where it falls.
And as for the cat lady - yeah, I have come across a lot of weird people, vegans and non vegans, so the way I see it, it's nothing but ad hominem.

Well yes, more education about this in schools and in general tbh would definitely help. As I said, my opinion on the whole thing may well be biased due to the people I know who are veggie/vegan and how I have actually watched them become pale and ridiculously thin after ditching meat, heard them going on about suffering severe anemia and so on. But yes, they probably just don't balance stuff properly or understand that its so much more than just replacing chicken with processed crap from the supermarket :S

I am not saying eating animals should be the default diet for kids. But if the kid wants to eat meat to the point where she actually cries when kids around her are eating meat that she is not allowed...do you not think this is quite cruel? Obviously some kids chose not to which is fine (aslong as the parents are educated in how to keep the diet as balanced as possible...mind some parents could do with a crash course in this in general) but having the choice totally taken from them...I just think is awful tbh

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

But if the kid wants to eat meat to the point where she actually cries when kids around her are eating meat that she is not allowed...do you not think this is quite cruel? Obviously some kids chose not to which is fine (aslong as the parents are educated in how to keep the diet as balanced as possible...mind some parents could do with a crash course in this in general) but having the choice totally taken from them...I just think is awful tbh

If she's actually at the point of crying for certain types of food then it's highly likely that the kid is craving, and has a deficiency. It's not just cruel, it's abuse that's going to cause long-term health problems .

[y.winter]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yes, more education about this in schools and in general tbh would definitely help. As I said, my opinion on the whole thing may well be biased due to the people I know who are veggie/vegan and how I have actually watched them become pale and ridiculously thin after ditching meat, heard them going on about suffering severe anemia and so on. But yes, they probably just don't balance stuff properly or understand that its so much more than just replacing chicken with processed crap from the supermarket :S

I am not saying eating animals should be the default diet for kids. But if the kid wants to eat meat to the point where she actually cries when kids around her are eating meat that she is not allowed...do you not think this is quite cruel? Obviously some kids chose not to which is fine (aslong as the parents are educated in how to keep the diet as balanced as possible...mind some parents could do with a crash course in this in general) but having the choice totally taken from them...I just think is awful tbh

I really don't know about those parents personally, so I don't think I can have a proper answer in this case. Kids tend to cry and throw a tantrum about many things ("mommy buy me!" "Mommy I want!" etc), some are justified and some are not, and parental guidance takes part somewhere in-between. It can be a right demand, but it can also be peer pressure for example - kids don't always know what's good for them and it's up to their parents to show them the way (as long as it's not neglecting them). This is my non experienced take on parenthood anyway haha. I don't know the couple or the child but I believe that if something is disturbingly wrong, you can only raise a flag and let the kindergartner/authorities to deal with it.