[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

People like meat and will always eat it,the least we can do is make sure they live what life they have as good as possible and that they are killed as pain free as possible,if there is such a thing,Can we be trusted to do that? personally I don't think so.

So long as we are willing to buy cheap meat, we are willingly taking part in animal suffering.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

So long as we are willing to buy cheap meat, we are willingly taking part in animal suffering.

I agree,but even if people paid more,I am not confident animals would be treated in the kindest way possible,no one is monitoring them really,just randomly undercover people will go in and report on the scum that get their kicks (literally) by scaring and torturing these animals, infact I ask myself can an animal lover ever work in an abattoir ? As for halal, I wont even go there.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I agree,but even if people paid more,I am not confident animals would be treated in the kindest way possible,no one is monitoring them really,just randomly undercover people will go in and report on the scum that get their kicks (literally) by scaring and torturing these animals, infact I ask myself can an animal lover ever work in an abattoir ? As for halal, I wont even go there.

If we had to go into a killing room to buy our meat, most of us would become vegetarian.

I don't know about halal or kosha slaughter because until its been proven that stunning doesn't just paralyze the animal, then it could turn out that slitting a throat with a sharp knife is kinder and quicker.

Having run a livery yard, I've stood with horses killed with a bolt to the head and with horses that were euthanized with lethal injection. Lethal injection looks much less violent to the horse owner but having witnessed both, I would say a bolt was quicker and kinder.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Having run a livery yard, I've stood with horses killed with a bolt to the head and with horses that were euthanized with lethal injection. Lethal injection looks much less violent to the horse owner but having witnessed both, I would say a bolt was quicker and kinder.

Yeah I've read this, there have been human "lethal injection survivors" (basically where they got it wrong and the person didn't die) who describe having been able to physically feel their heart and breathing slowing and experiencing serious internal feelings of panic / anxiety, while externally there were no signs of distress.

My gut feeling with the practice of stunning, is that it is simply to make the moment of death "more palatable" for the humans who are going to be doing the eating. They don't thrash and flop around and let out a death rattle so it all LOOKS kinder and more peaceful... the truth in all probability, is that they're still feeling all of the same things, they've just had their body's ability to react removed. Not only that but it actually draws out the process; stun - killing blow - death takes at least twice as long as just killing blow - death (which is seconds, if done properly). Stunning is for us... not for the animals. Sanitizing death for a comfortable existence. I stand by what I originally said; anyone who can't get their head around the realities of animal slaughter, and can't comfortably ignore it without the "white lies" about it, shouldn't be eating meat at all.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yeah I've read this, there have been human "lethal injection survivors" (basically where they got it wrong and the person didn't die) who describe having been able to physically feel their heart and breathing slowing and experiencing serious internal feelings of panic / anxiety, while externally there were no signs of distress.

My gut feeling with the practice of stunning, is that it is simply to make the moment of death "more palatable" for the humans who are going to be doing the eating. They don't thrash and flop around and let out a death rattle so it all LOOKS kinder and more peaceful... the truth in all probability, is that they're still feeling all of the same things, they've just had their body's ability to react removed. Not only that but it actually draws out the process; stun - killing blow - death takes at least twice as long as just killing blow - death (which is seconds, if done properly). Stunning is for us... not for the animals. Sanitizing death for a comfortable existence. I stand by what I originally said; anyone who can't get their head around the realities of animal slaughter, and can't comfortably ignore it without the "white lies" about it, shouldn't be eating meat at all.

Yup. Agree with all of this.

Also have actually seen a video of a lethal injection survivor before and its not pretty at all. Read a few accounts of it too...sometimes it takes hours to die.

Stunning most likely does just stop the thrashing, I do think they still feel it but are unable to react. Only way they wouldn't actually feel it (IMO) is to actually anesthetize the animals first, which would be too costly to consider.