[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

If we think halal (its called zabiha when it involves the slaughter of an animal for meat) is cruel, then we need to also look at Kosher slaughter. Zabiha slaughter does allow the stunning of some animals before slaughter. The*British Halal Food Authority*approves of low-voltage electrified water baths to stun poultry and electric tong stunning for sheep and goats http://halalfoodauthority.com/faqs

Kosher slaughter, on the other hand, allows no stunning for any animal so shouldn't you be fighting for the humane slaughter of Jewish meat too?

They're both on par and should be treated equally, but Kosher wasn't in school meals across Lankashire, nor is it sold as the default meat by several supermarkets.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

They're both on par and should be treated equally, but Kosher wasn't in school meals across Lankashire, nor is it sold as the default meat by several supermarkets.

Both Kosher and Halal meat ends up on our supermarket shelves unlabeled because both Jews and Muslims don't eat certain parts of an animal and so those parts are re-distributed to everyone else.

Killing an animal is never friendly. Some say that Kosher and Halal slaughter is kinder, others say its crueler. Nobody has ever been able to prove that stunning an animal renders it unconscious. Scientists still question if the animal is just paralyzed and can, therefore, feel the pain.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Both Kosher and Halal meat ends up on our supermarket shelves unlabeled because both Jews and Muslims don't eat certain parts of an animal and so those parts are re-distributed to everyone else.

Killing an animal is never friendly. Some say that Kosher and Halal slaughter is kinder, others say its crueler. Nobody has ever been able to prove that stunning an animal renders it unconscious. Scientists still question if the animal is just paralyzed and can, therefore, feel the pain.

Like I said I think they both should be banned, but the reason people single out Halal more is because it's more common.

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Both Kosher and Halal meat ends up on our supermarket shelves unlabeled because both Jews and Muslims don't eat certain parts of an animal and so those parts are re-distributed to everyone else.

Killing an animal is never friendly. Some say that Kosher and Halal slaughter is kinder, others say its crueler. Nobody has ever been able to prove that stunning an animal renders it unconscious. Scientists still question if the animal is just paralyzed and can, therefore, feel the pain.

How can it be kinder.........I know if I had to be killed I'd want to be stunned first and not just get my throat cut and hung upside down to let my blood drain out of my body

[DemolitionRed]

The scientific facts from Deutsche Tieraerztliche Wochenschrift (German veterinary weekly) volume 85 (1978), pages 62-66
This is a real study that was translated by http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm The original study can be downloaded as a PDF


A team at the University of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.


The Halal method

With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.


The Western method

Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The scientific facts from Deutsche Tieraerztliche Wochenschrift (German veterinary weekly) volume 85 (1978), pages 62-66
This is a real study that was translated by http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm The original study can be downloaded as a PDF


A team at the University of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.


The Halal method

With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.


The Western method

Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.

I suspected as much, I said earlier that the act of Stunning seems to be more of a health and safety issue than for the benefit of the animal.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I suspected as much, I said earlier that the act of Stunning seems to be more of a health and safety issue than for the benefit of the animal.

Indeed. Not shocked at all by that, nor that the throat cutting didn't actually cause pain. Obviously I have never had my throat cut, but I have had serious deep cuts, that I did not even realise I had done, until I saw the blood, and even then it didn't hurt until a little while afterwards.