[Vicky.]

I don't think anyone posts on here to change others opinions. Indeed most peoples opinions are set in stone anyway. I change opinion occasionally based on something that is brought to my attention, for example I was fully supportive of the 'trans' agenda until I read/thought a little deeper into it and actually listened to lesbians I know who told me what is happening to them regularly, and also listened to transsexual people and how they are treat by the 'transgender' community. I also used to be fully for banning the burkha, and it was people on here that changed my opinion on that too. But usually..I am fairly stubborn. And most people are

I see nothing at all wrong with challenging someones opinion. If this did not happen, this section would not exist at all!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Up until very recently (from on here) I hadn't even given trans women a thought. If I saw one in a ladies loo I doubt I'd even notice because I don't tend to observe people in ladies toilets. To my knowledge, apart from that club Stunners, I have never spotted a trans female using a public toilet... and I've used many. I believe most people are like me and haven't given it much thought.

As for women who haven't fully transitioned, how would we know? There are women who have fully transitioned who still find it hard to pass as women and there are women who haven't fully transitioned who are very convincing as women.

I think its sad and pathetic that some of these trans have taken it upon themselves to campaign so aggressively. I think its sad to hear people saying 'trans aren't real women and never will be' but then I'm a live and let live person.

One thing I do know for sure is, if one of my sons came to me and told me they wanted to transition into a female, I would accept them and love them and fight with them for that right.

I think that's probably a good point really, the way it's been campaigned for has done so much more harm than good. It's not a reasoned, genuine appeal for acceptance and understanding... It's a battle cry of aggressive demands, harassment and bullying tactics that realistically isn't going to achieve anything except generate a huge backlash... Which it has. But then, the same is very true of the more radical aspects of 3rd wave feminism that venture too far into being "anti-male", and race equality campaigns that become heavily "anti-white". I understand the anger and passion behind it... However the way it's approached does nothing to improve equality and in fact damages it by creating an opposing side much larger than the one that existed before. There seems to be an idea that, if a group has oppressed or affected another group in some way in the past, it's now time for them to sit back, take their lumps, accept that they deserve it and say nothing about it. In the real world, that is simply never going to happen, and people seriously impact their OWN goals by expecting it. I mean... We have a giant, neon, glowing example of this effect sitting in the damn Whitehouse and people still don't get it.

P.S.

I have never spotted a trans female using a public toilet... and I've used many.

This is a very unusual thing to brag about

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Nope. A transsexual has sex dysphoria., Whatever stage of transition they are at, they are still transsexual. They are obviously not 'post op' transsexual until they have the ops and such, but transsexual just means people with sex dysphoria.

Ok fair enough, I think I'm getting myself confused with all the different labels and definitions :/

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I already know we disagree on this so its pointless us keep to-ing and fro-ing about sex segregation tbh

I would say that sex segregation IS a means to safety (and dignity) in itself for women* (dignity for men too, not necessarily safety for them) and taking this away is taking away their rights to safety. Women can challenge that shifty looking dude who is hanging around the changing rooms, making it law that any man who declares himself a woman...would mean a woman who challenged this bloke is committing a hate crime.

*given crime stats say men are a danger to women (not all men, and such disclaimer)

If a shifty looking man was hanging around the changing rooms and not using them I'd assume he'd still be able to be reported, regardless of how he identifies he'd be reported just for being shifty and hanging around a changing room, it would have nothing to do with gender so I don't think hate crime wouldn't come into that.

I also don't think that sex segregation = privacy/dignity. You can have a non sex segregated area that is cubicled and private, just as you get sex segregated areas that are open and non private. But yeah we probably have already discussed this 3 times already actually

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

A transexual has to go through hormone treatment and/or surgery to be considered transexual though do they not? Maybe I'm just overcomplicating things but I'm talking about transgender people who would otherwise be transexual, who are the same in every other way, but for various reasons can't or are afraid to have the treatments and surgeries.



I know this but that's not what a lot religious people would argue. It's much the same thing for me because I don't believe in either case that rights are being taken away (I don't think the 'right' is having a sex segregarted area, the 'right' is having a safe environment, and the difference being that I don't think sex segregation = safety, whereas advocates for sex segration tend to base it on that, so it's a difference in opinion of what actually constitutes safety and whether non segregated areas would actually be less safe... but the actual cause and 'rights' is about safety of women, sex segregation just being a possible means to that.)

I think sex segregation equals ‘safer’ not to mention more comfortable. Nothing is 100% safe but as any man claiming to self-identify can go into the ladies toilets it is less safe for women. Sex attacks on women are a huge problem in Britain, probably most places, and something women have to be aware of and therefore live with all their lives.

Women/girls want to feel safer in that environment and I could not understand why anyone would want to deny them that. They will undoubtedly be at more risk if any man or men can enter the ladies toilets at any time unchallenged.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I also don't think that sex segregation = privacy/dignity. You can have a non sex segregated area that is cubicled and private, just as you get sex segregated areas that are open and non private. But yeah we probably have already discussed this 3 times already actually

Well yes, I agree with this. But thats not the usual setup in many public places. If every place was to change to full floor to ceiling cubicles and such, then I would have no issue at all with unisex. But to decide that the current setups should be unisex..I disagree with that a lot.

Theres also issues not to do with changing rooms though. Such as prisons. In scotland there are currently male rapists in female prisons. I can't imagine anyone thinks thats right. Yet people will still argue that its wrong to put 'transwomen' with penises in with the men. So...lets just throw them in with women instead?! **** that. if they are unsafe in male prisons, make male prisons safer. Loads of men are at risk in male prisons, smaller men, feminine men, gay men, the lot. Should all of them be moved to female ones for their own safety? (with no thought to the safety of the females) Surely the answer is to work on safety for everyone in the mens prisons...

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I think sex segregation equals ‘safer’ not to mention more comfortable.

I agree on the discomfort part, I just feel that that's something that would change over time as it's more down to social norms... imo.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Nothing is 100% safe but as any man claiming to self-identify can go into the ladies toilets it is less safe for women. Sex attacks on women are a huge problem in Britain, probably most places, and something women have to be aware of and therefore live with all their lives.

Women/girls want to feel safer in that environment and I could not understand why anyone would want to deny them that. They will undoubtedly be at more risk if any man or men can enter the ladies toilets at any time unchallenged.

The distinction for me I suppose is 'feeling of safety' and actual safety being different things. Obviously we disagree on what constitutes actual safety in this instance, but that doesn't equal a disregard for womens safety as I wouldn't want to deny anybody that.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yes, I agree with this. But thats not the usual setup in many public places. If every place was to change to full floor to ceiling cubicles and such, then I would have no issue at all with unisex. But to decide that the current setups should be unisex..I disagree with that a lot.

Theres also issues not to do with changing rooms though. Such as prisons. In scotland there are currently male rapists in female prisons. I can't imagine anyone thinks thats right. Yet people will still argue that its wrong to put 'transwomen' with penises in with the men. So...lets just throw them in with women instead?! **** that. if they are unsafe in male prisons, make male prisons safer. Loads of men are at risk in male prisons, smaller men, feminine men, gay men, the lot. Should all of them be moved to female ones for their own safety? (with no thought to the safety of the females) Surely the answer is to work on safety for everyone in the mens prisons...

I think the issues with safety in prisons is a huge thing in itself. And yes, obviously I'm speaking very generally and about normal everyday situations but as I've said before there are certainly situations where I'm in favour of segregation.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

You can have an opinion that is the exact opposite of someone else's opinion and therefore believe that opinion to be wrong. You seem quite happy to say that, for example, the opinion that all Muslims should be deported is wrong? Wrong in this context simply meaning "something that you consider morally incorrect". An opinion can also be wrong if it is objectively and statistically incorrect,u usually when someone is claiming that their opinion is fact. Are you sure I haven't been challenging your "facts", rather than your opinions?






No I am aware that drugged women are still semi conscious, which is entirely my point, incase you missed it. It's not feasible for a woman to drug and attack a larger, stronger male because - drugged or not - if that male resists or fights back (which drugged women can and do) then the woman who has drugged him is still at a physical disadvantage and probably putting themselves at very real physical risk... As once drugged the person defending the self isn't in full control.

Hiwever I accept that it's much easier to believe that it's simply because "women are nicer and don't want to do such bad things". The sad truth is that a lot of people are trash, and it's not gender specific at all.

I truly believe that you believe that there aren't more attacks on men by women purely because they aren't strong enough to carry them out... I don't agree you understand but I respect your opinion.

You might believe someones opinion is wrong, throwing all kinds of hypotheticals in the mix to muddy the waters isn't helpful.

What exactly is it you're accusing me of here, I haven't stated anything as fact have I?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Ok fair enough, I think I'm getting myself confused with all the different labels and definitions :/



If a shifty looking man was hanging around the changing rooms and not using them I'd assume he'd still be able to be reported, regardless of how he identifies he'd be reported just for being shifty and hanging around a changing room, it would have nothing to do with gender so I don't think hate crime wouldn't come into that.

I also don't think that sex segregation = privacy/dignity. You can have a non sex segregated area that is cubicled and private, just as you get sex segregated areas that are open and non private. But yeah we probably have already discussed this 3 times already actually

No disrespect but personally I would feel more comfortable and more safe in an open sex segregated area than in a cubicled non sex segregated area. I think many women would feel the same way.

I also think that people seem to be mainly thinking of young people here and I think we can pretty much take it as a given that both older and elderly women are not going to be at all comfortable about this. I could even see elderly ladies who frequently need the ladies would stop going out if it meant using non sex segregated public toilets. The idea stinks in my opinion.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yes, I agree with this. But thats not the usual setup in many public places. If every place was to change to full floor to ceiling cubicles and such, then I would have no issue at all with unisex. But to decide that the current setups should be unisex..I disagree with that a lot.

Theres also issues not to do with changing rooms though. Such as prisons. In scotland there are currently male rapists in female prisons. I can't imagine anyone thinks thats right. Yet people will still argue that its wrong to put 'transwomen' with penises in with the men. So...lets just throw them in with women instead?! **** that. if they are unsafe in male prisons, make male prisons safer. Loads of men are at risk in male prisons, smaller men, feminine men, gay men, the lot. Should all of them be moved to female ones for their own safety? (with no thought to the safety of the females) Surely the answer is to work on safety for everyone in the mens prisons...

As far as I know, and admittedly, I haven't done much research, there was one rapist who raped two women before transitioning and who was allowed to wander around with women in a female prison. That ended with her harassing female prisoners. That should never of happened, as a former rapist of women, she should of been fully segregated, which in this instance she was, but not until after the event.

If we are going to make male prisons safer, we can make female prisons safer too. Should we for instance put gay male sex offenders in male prisons? the answer is clearly 'yes' but we have a duty of care to other male prisoners.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No disrespect but personally I would feel more comfortable and more safe in an open sex segregated area than in a cubicled non sex segregated area. I think many women would feel the same way.

Would you be happy to sit knickers down on the pan in front of men and women? I know I wouldn't

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I also think that people seem to be mainly thinking of young people here and I think we can pretty much take it as a given that both older and elderly women are not going to be at all comfortable about this. I could even see elderly ladies who frequently need the ladies would stop going out if it meant using non sex segregated public toilets. The idea stinks in my opinion.

What's the chance in most towns in the country, of bumping into an obvious transexual in a public toilet. I'm sure little old ladies are the last people to notice. There really isn't that many about. I mean, in the world most of us live in, we are not being plagued by them are we?

It wasn't that long ago that we had the same fear about gay people. People seemed to be under this assumption that gay people were somehow a threat to people of the same sex. They were treated for mental illness. Doctors tried to cure them. They were beaten, threatened, teased and humiliated and male gays were considered a threat to male children

Now, thank god, people have been educated about gay people. Laws have been put in place to protect gays and give them the same rights as heterosexuals. Gays are no longer seen as sexual deviants. They can get married, and they can adopt a child.

[DemolitionRed]

And here's a question. Anyone here with kids who haven't gone through puberty don't yet know if their kid is going to be transexual. People with older children may not be aware that their son, daughter leads a double life as the alternative sex. How would any of you feel/react as a parent if it was your child who came home one day and told you they were going to transition?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Would you be happy to sit knickers down on the pan in front of men and women? I know I wouldn't

I also think that people seem to be mainly thinking of young people here and I think we can pretty much take it as a given that both older and elderly women are not going to be at all comfortable about this. I could even see elderly ladies who frequently need the ladies would stop going out if it meant using non sex segregated public toilets. The idea stinks in my opinion.

What's the chance in most towns in the country, of bumping into an obvious transexual in a public toilet. I'm sure little old ladies are the last people to notice. There really aren't that many about.

It wasn't that long ago that we had the same fear about gay people. People seemed to be under this assumption that gay people were somehow a threat to people of the same sex. They were treated for mental illness. Doctors tried to cure them. They were beaten, threatened, teased and humiliated and male gays were considered a threat to male children

Now, thank god, people have been educated about gay people. Laws have been put in place to protect gays and give them the same rights as heterosexuals. Gays are no longer seen as sexual deviants. They can get married, and they can adopt a child.[/QUOTE]


Are you reading this properly? We are talking about men who pose as transwomen and claim to self-identify as a woman meaning any old perv or worse could come into the ladies loos unchallenged, not actual transwomen. Such a system is open to huge abuse.

You can do what you like but please don’t try and shove your views down my throat or all those women out there who would not be comfortable with it.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Are you reading this properly? We are talking about men who pose as transwomen and claim to self-identify as a woman meaning any old perv or worse could come into the ladies loos unchallenged, not actual transwomen. Such a system is open to huge abuse.

You can do what you like but please don’t try and shove your views down my throat or all those women out there who would not be comfortable with it.

I'm stating my view, just as you are stating yours. You really shouldn't join in discussions if you can't cope with any resistance to your views.

Edited to say: we are not only talking about perv's dressing in a frock to gain access to a ladies toilet. This topic has gone way beyond that.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

And here's a question. Anyone here with kids who haven't gone through puberty don't yet know if their kid is going to be transexual. People with older children may not be aware that their son, daughter leads a double life as the alternative sex. How would any of you feel/react as a parent if it was your child who came home one day and told you they were going to transition?

I don't think anyone can answer that question honestly, particularly how they would feel. I have a 7 year old son who I love unconditionally. If he came home telling me he felt he wanted to transition, I would absolutely do everything in my power to get the support and information he needed to begin the journey and support him 100%' HOWEVER, I do not know how I would actually feel about it, I could give you lip service and tell you I would feel nothing or happy etc....but I honestly don't know. I would hope there is a support network for any parent facing this with their children too as it affects the lives of anyone close to a transitioning person. They have to change their whole perceptions too.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

As far as I know, and admittedly, I haven't done much research, there was one rapist who raped two women before transitioning and who was allowed to wander around with women in a female prison. That ended with her harassing female prisoners. That should never of happened, as a former rapist of women, she should of been fully segregated, which in this instance she was, but not until after the event.

If we are going to make male prisons safer, we can make female prisons safer too. Should we for instance put gay male sex offenders in male prisons? the answer is clearly 'yes' but we have a duty of care to other male prisoners.

Well yes, as they are male

Even if a rapist raped a male person, they should not be in with females, as they are not female. Equally if a woman raped a man, or another woman..they should still be in with the women as they are female. if they are a danger to those around them, segregate them. Don't shift them to the prison of the opposite sex, thats insane! Its not to do with sexuality, its to do with sex.

There are a fair few transwomen in female prisons. Something like 100 in the country.

What is interesting (though makes total sense really) is that there are no transmen fighting to be in with the men. Its always transwomen wanting to be with the women.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm stating my view, just as you are stating yours. You really shouldn't join in discussions if you can't cope with any resistance to your views.

Edited to say: we are not only talking about perv's dressing in a frock to gain access to a ladies toilet. This topic has gone way beyond that.

Really. Putting the potential safety issues aside for a minute, Why is it that some people always seem to put the views of women born as women at the bottom of the pile. We are entitled to our views, our comfort and our privacy the same as anyone else. Are we always expected to put the feelings of other groups before our own because we are women - constantly expected to sacrifice our own quality of lives for others. No.

This is very unpopular with good reason and people need to stand their ground and stand up for their own rights here. No one has the right to force this on millions of women - this is actually a policy to benefit the few rather than the many. The complete opposite to what red JC is supposed to stand for. Absolute hypocritical boll****.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

And here's a question. Anyone here with kids who haven't gone through puberty don't yet know if their kid is going to be transexual. People with older children may not be aware that their son, daughter leads a double life as the alternative sex. How would any of you feel/react as a parent if it was your child who came home one day and told you they were going to transition?

Wouldn't bother me as such, but like hell would I be putting them on blockers. Blockers are dangerous and as I said earlier, a self fulfilling prophecy. If my kid said they were trans, I would get them counseling (though thanks to transactivists, there is not much counseling available beyond 'affirmation') if needed. And I would know that there was a very large chance they would simply grow out of it. And that they are very likely to simply be gay as adults. If they did not grow out of it, then take it as it comes.

No way would I be setting my kid up for a lifetime of medical intervention and telling them lies that its actually possible to change sex. I would be signposting them, to sites such as https://4thwavenow.com/ and not letting them use the internet unsupervised...as once the transactivists get their claws into them they fill their heads full of rubbish such as 'transition or die'...throw about false suicide statistics, and basically tell them to ignore their parents as their parents are transphobic and encourage girl children to use 'binders' (which again, cause damage) and so on.

It genuinely is like a cult.

[Vicky.]

Also this https://lilymaynard.wordpress.com/20...gh-transtopia/

Very powerful story of quite how dangerous transactivists are once they get their claws into poor gender questioning kids.

I would deal with it exactly the same way Lily Maynard did. Long posts, but for anyone who has a bit of time to spare and fancies a long read

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

It wasn't that long ago that we had the same fear about gay people. People seemed to be under this assumption that gay people were somehow a threat to people of the same sex. They were treated for mental illness. Doctors tried to cure them. They were beaten, threatened, teased and humiliated and male gays were considered a threat to male children

Now, thank god, people have been educated about gay people. Laws have been put in place to protect gays and give them the same rights as heterosexuals. Gays are no longer seen as sexual deviants. They can get married, and they can adopt a child.

That's a really good point. The fear of gay men being around children being a cause to expect safety issues of gay men being around children. I'm sure many people really did (and some still do) believe that those expectations were totally founded based on news reports and legitimate sources etc. And not even pedophilia but the fear that children might become gay if exposed to or influenced by gay people.
A family friend of mine who's now in his late 60s is gay and when he was in his 20s his best friend at the time had a baby, and although they remained friends he was never allowed to see the child just because he was gay. Seems unbelievable something like that happening now. That they'd remain close friends but it was just a normal thing for him that his friend wouldn't let him around his kid. And I'm sure his friend only had the best interests and the safety of his child in mind (however ****ed up his logic actually was).

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I don't think anyone can answer that question honestly, particularly how they would feel. I have a 7 year old son who I love unconditionally. If he came home telling me he felt he wanted to transition, I would absolutely do everything in my power to get the support and information he needed to begin the journey and support him 100%' HOWEVER, I do not know how I would actually feel about it, I could give you lip service and tell you I would feel nothing or happy etc....but I honestly don't know. I would hope there is a support network for any parent facing this with their children too as it affects the lives of anyone close to a transitioning person. They have to change their whole perceptions too.

Thanks, I probably phrased that question incorrectly. I should of probably asked how you think you'd react.

I have a close friend who went through this with her then 16 year old daughter. As a child she was very girly but she became quite boyish around puberty and then went on to suffer massive depressive bouts and even attempted suicide. When he (and I call him 'he' because that's what I believe he is) told his parents, they, just like you say you would, fully supported him but they both had to go for therapy because, and this is what their therapist told them, they had to go through the grieving process of saying goodbye to their only daughter.

I think I would feel anxious. Anxious because of what they had ahead of them. The stigma, the rejection, not only from the public but from their extended family and friends. I would also morn the lost hope of future grandchildren. You're right, there is a grieving process for parents, even those who fully support the transition.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I don't think anyone can answer that question honestly, particularly how they would feel. I have a 7 year old son who I love unconditionally. If he came home telling me he felt he wanted to transition, I would absolutely do everything in my power to get the support and information he needed to begin the journey and support him 100%' HOWEVER, I do not know how I would actually feel about it, I could give you lip service and tell you I would feel nothing or happy etc....but I honestly don't know. I would hope there is a support network for any parent facing this with their children too as it affects the lives of anyone close to a transitioning person. They have to change their whole perceptions too.

Unfortunately parents are signposted to 'Mermaids'. Mermaids is a pressure group who fling around doctored suicide statistics and they tell parents that their kid will kill themselves without blockers and such. A mother on mumsnet was telling us all about her experiences with mermaids, and basically it sounds absolutely horrendous. One of the Mermaids staff members actually came onto the thread and doxxed the poor woman who was talking to us all about it! Very professional. The leader of Mermaids took her kid to Thailand at 16 for SRS, because the laws here say this cannot be done til 18. They also encourage parents to buy hormones off the internet to give to their children if they cannot get a prescription for 'blockers'

Not long ago, a court actually ordered Mermaids to stay the hell away from a kid they were trying to 'trans'. But the NHS keeps recommending them for some odd reason...

More about Mermaids

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...girl-dvx3j99cn

Spoiler:

A taxpayer-funded transgender charity has been banned by the High Court from any contact with a family after the mother, who was being advised by the group, forced her seven-year-old son to live as a girl.

The latest accounts for Mermaids UK, published last week, reveal it has been granted Ł35,000 by the Department for Education (DfE) and a total of Ł138,000 by the national lottery’s Awards for All fund and the BBC’s Children in Need appeal.

It can also be revealed that until last week Mermaids was advertising “same day” cross-sex hormone treatment for children. NHS guidelines do not allow the treatment, which causes irreversible bodily changes and can compromise fertility, for anyone under 16.

In a court case, reported last year, Mr Justice Hayden removed the seven-year-old child, known as “J”, from his mother after finding she had caused him “significant emotional harm” and “pressed [him] into a gender identification that had far more to do with his mother’s needs and little, if anything, to do with his own”.

Social services had declined to act against the woman, saying she had “appropriately taken on board support from . . . Mermaids”. However, the judge accused social workers of “summarily disregarding” many concerns expressed by police and healthcare professionals about J because they “did not wish to appear to be challenging an emerging orthodoxy in such a high-profile issue”.

J was home-schooled and was dressed in girls’ clothes, the judgment found. After being removed from his mother, sent to live with his father and sent to school, he had “assert[ed] his own masculine gender” and lived life as a boy.

At the time, Mermaids attacked the “horrific decision”, insisted J wanted to be a girl and said there was “no evidence at all to support this judge’s views”.

Yet in separate Facebook posts it has now emerged that the charity admitted it had been “ordered to have nothing to do with this child following their removal”.

Until last Friday the youth section of the Mermaids website featured a message from Dr Birgit Möller, a Hamburg-based doctor, offering fast-track trans-sex hormone treatment for children. “If the families are interested we would set up a long evaluation appointment at our clinic (3-4 hours) and afterwards an appointment with the endocrinologist [hormone specialist],” Möller wrote. “In case of an indication for hormone treatment he would prescribe it the same day.”

The message was removed after The Sunday Times asked Mermaids about it.

Stephanie Davies-Arai, founder of Transgender Trend, a website for parents questioning the diagnosis and treatment of children as transgender, said: “I am concerned that Mermaids is indoctrinating children, scaring parents into thinking that [gender] transition is the only way and intimidating professionals.”

The DfE said it did not fund Mermaids directly but as one of 13 “partner” groups in an anti-bullying alliance.

Mermaids claimed last night that it was not the subject of the court order and that it was the family that had been ordered to have no contact with it.

Had to copy text as times is subscription only (I actually have a subscription now because they are the only paper willing to report on this topic properly and unbiased)


And more on doctored suicide stats

https://fairplayforwomen.com/mermaid...unprofessional

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yes, as they are male

Even if a rapist raped a male person, they should not be in with females, as they are not female. Equally if a woman raped a man, or another woman..they should still be in with the women as they are female. if they are a danger to those around them, segregate them. Don't shift them to the prison of the opposite sex, thats insane! Its not to do with sexuality, its to do with sex.

There are a fair few transwomen in female prisons. Something like 100 in the country.

What is interesting (though makes total sense really) is that there are no transmen fighting to be in with the men. Its always transwomen wanting to be with the women.

But male rapists shouldn't be in with men either. They should at the very least be segregated.

I think most trans women want to be with women because they feel they are a woman. I also think most trans men would feel very intimidated in a male prison because regardless of how well their transitions gone, they will still be vulnerable to male predators.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Thanks, I probably phrased that question incorrectly. I should of probably asked how you think you'd react.

I have a close friend who went through this with her then 16 year old daughter. As a child she was very girly but she became quite boyish around puberty and then went on to suffer massive depressive bouts and even attempted suicide. When he (and I call him 'he' because that's what I believe he is) told his parents, they, just like you say you would, fully supported him but they both had to go for therapy because, and this is what their therapist told them, they had to go through the grieving process of saying goodbye to their only daughter.

I think I would feel anxious. Anxious because of what they had ahead of them. The stigma, the rejection, not only from the public but from their extended family and friends. I would also morn the lost hope of future grandchildren. Your right, there is a grieving process for parents, even those who fully support the transition.

what do you mean 'became quite boyish?' Started being more stereotypically masculine?

I would say there is a fairly large chance that this person is just a butch lesbian. Possibly with internalized homophobia. better to be a strsight man than a gay women.

Maybe they actually are trans. But so often it all comes down to stereotypes, its quite scary.

Obviously this is quite personal, but did this person actually have sex dysphoria? And how long ago was this? Without adding identifying info is it possible to tell us how this ended up Sorry for all of the questions.

The topic just fascinates me and horrifies me in equal measure. Partly because I am near certain if I had been born 20 years later than I was, I would be a 'transkid' today as I was totally gender non-conforming (still am) and if I was told there was a way to stop puberty, I would have taken it like a shot tbh. I would now be sterile. And an imitation of a man, which I know I would not be happy with at all. And theres no way for anyone to go back on the decision, if puberty is blocked then cross sex hormones start after this. I find it amazing that we let kids as young as 10 (or younger in some cases) make this huge decision that will affect them for the rest of their lives. And that any parent who protests is branded transphobic

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

But male rapists shouldn't be in with men either. They should at the very least be segregated.

I think most trans women want to be with women because they feel they are a woman. I also think most trans men would feel very intimidated in a male prison because regardless of how well their transitions gone, they will still be vulnerable to male predators.

But they are not a woman, regardless of what they think they are.

I think they mainly want in with the women as they know a female prison is likely to be safer and 'easier', and in some cases for access to more victims tbh. British Association of Gender Identity Specialists agree with me too it seems. Cocnerns have already been raised on this issue.

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/...sex-offenders/

Full PDF here - http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevi...tten/19532.pdf

Basically the only way to keep everyone as safe as possible, is to segregate the 'transwomen' who feel they should be in with the women for safety reasons. This keeps them safe, and also does not make the women unsafe.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Also this https://lilymaynard.wordpress.com/20...gh-transtopia/

Very powerful story of quite how dangerous transactivists are once they get their claws into poor gender questioning kids.

I would deal with it exactly the same way Lily Maynard did. Long posts, but for anyone who has a bit of time to spare and fancies a long read

I read the link and I agree, there is a cult out there and perhaps because its now so easy to be whatever sex you like, kids are getting confused.

The bit that jumped out at me is when mum said to Jessie, “Do you think Beth really sees you as a boy?” which clearly threw Jessie.

There are plenty of masculine lesbians looking for more feminine lesbians. Of course, those feminine lesbians wouldn't be interested if their masculine looking girlfriend had a sex change or even declared herself to be male. There was clearly some massive confussion but that one question mum asked was the turning point for Jessie. I found that part quite emotional... not sure why

We do though, have to accept that there are some very genuine transgenders and there are people who get caught up in this 'fetish' style cult. For the genuine ones, we surely need to show some understanding and acceptance and I'm not talking about those driving the wheels of activism but those, like my friends son who has just married his pansexual boyfriend and who appears to be happy, at last. I honestly think the genuine ones just want a quite life and it would be a great shame if we ended up tarring them all with the same brush.