[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

An couple of examples. Before WW2 and as the Nazi party were forming, a general distaste for Jewish people started to spread throughout Germany. This of course was prompted through propaganda media channels and radio. Was there a stirring of anti-semitism and if not why not?

More recently we've been the spectators of war in the Middle East by both tribal natives and the West. We then started to see terrorist attacks on our own shores and suddenly we were all talking about Muslims. Every day for years we have had something in one paper or other condemning the Islamic faith and on every political forum we've had many debates about the sinfulness of Islam. Is that a stirring up of anti-semitism? and if not why not?

I think the concerns by many about the aforementioned terrorism and hate-speeches/threats made on our streets from many of said religion as well as how we see women and others treated over-seas and here in the name of said religion puts a different slant on it not surprisingly.

It’s a completely different scenario to what the Nazis did to the Jewish people.

[Niamh.]

Deleted more posts in here, I'm just going to close the thread if you all can't stick to the topic and not eachother

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Well go on, explain why...

You know why. Although it would be useful for Labour supporters who refuse to believe their own party is anti-Semitic. Now apparently, the term will cover Muslims. Which is interesting... Because Semitism was born waaaaaay before Islam. Islam is less than 2000 years old and Judaism over 5000 years old. But hey, if it suits your particular agenda, then go for it.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Livia

You know why. Although it would be useful for Labour supporters who refuse to believe their own party is anti-Semitic. Now apparently, the term will cover Muslims. Which is interesting... Because Semitism was born waaaaaay before Islam. Islam is less than 2000 years old and Judaism over 5000 years old. But hey, if it suits your particular agenda, then go for it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

Just use anti-Semitism, Cherie, seems it's now a catch-all phrase.

seems to be


I think I will make up my own

Paddyphobia

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Candy Cane

seems to be


I think I will make up my own

Paddyphobia

Opinionphobia.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

You know why. Although it would be useful for Labour supporters who refuse to believe their own party is anti-Semitic. Now apparently, the term will cover Muslims. Which is interesting... Because Semitism was born waaaaaay before Islam. Islam is less than 2000 years old and Judaism over 5000 years old. But hey, if it suits your particular agenda, then go for it.

I don't that's why I'm asking..

Ignore for a second if you can any Labour slurs

'The three main Semitic religions are. Christianity, Judaism and Islam.'

How can one be more 'Semitic' than the other?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

I appreciate it is predominantly used to cover slights aimed at anything related to the Jewish and/or the Jewish faith... but why?
If Islamophobia is not acceptable as an umbrella term and Muslims are by definition Semites where's the issue?

Criticizing the religion of islam shouldn't need a special term, because in its current manifestation and the effects it has on the world, there is plenty to criticize.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Doesn’t that depend on what they are saying and whether it is true. If someone says it is a misogynistic religion, that would not be a spurious lie and such a religion is then open for criticism. Who gets to decide how much is constant - you it seems.

Yes, of course it depends on if its true but most of what is said come with grains of propaganda nonsense.

You know, the Muslim faith was never a thing until the troubles started. Nobody cared about Muslims being misogynists, just as nobody still cares about Jews being misogynist and you know why? because most Muslim men are not misogynists and most Jewish men are not misogynists. That doesn't mean misogyny doesn't exist in both the Jewish and Muslim communities, it just means its not wide spread.

You stereotype an entire religion. If we were to do the same about Jews there would be absolute outrage and rightly so. Me though, I'm equally outraged for the stereotyping of either.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I think the concerns by many about the aforementioned terrorism and hate-speeches/threats made on our streets from many of said religion as well as how we see women and others treated over-seas and here in the name of said religion puts a different slant on it not surprisingly.

It’s a completely different scenario to what the Nazis did to the Jewish people.

I'm not talking about what the Nazis did to the Jewish people. I was talking about the rise of the Nazi party before the holocaust began. I was talking about how Jewish people were demonized and subjugated, not only by the rising Nazi party but by the German people.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm not talking about what the Nazis did to the Jewish people. I was talking about the rise of the Nazi party before the holocaust began. I was talking about how Jewish people were demonized and subjugated, not only by the rising Nazi party but by the German people.

Were the Jews' actions at the time comparable to a number of muslims' actions today?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Livia

Because before WW2 the Jews were not bombing the citizens of Germany, cutting off their heads, capturing women for rape and sex slavery etc. etc. etc. Hut hey, nice try in comparing the Muslim situation with the Holocaust. I'd laugh if I didn't think you were serious.

Oh please don't fake outrage Livia. I didn't for a single moment compare it with the Holocaust.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by The_Hogfather

Were the Jews' actions at the time comparable to a number of muslims' actions today?

Even if it was, would the Jewish people of deserved what happened to them. The answer is a clear 'NO'.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Livia

You know why. Although it would be useful for Labour supporters who refuse to believe their own party is anti-Semitic. Now apparently, the term will cover Muslims. Which is interesting... Because Semitism was born waaaaaay before Islam. Islam is less than 2000 years old and Judaism over 5000 years old. But hey, if it suits your particular agenda, then go for it.

Apparently were were not well taught about this in school.

http://www.waupun.k12.wi.us/Policy/o...Religions.html

When we speak about the Semitic religions, we are referring to Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. The word Semitic describes the people who came from the Middle East and their languages. Arabs and Jews are both Semitic. Christianity is a Semitic religion because it originated in the Middle East.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Even if it was, would the Jewish people of deserved what happened to them. The answer is a clear 'NO'.

Of course not, but bringing the treatment of Jews by the Nazis into discussions about muslims in the modern world is just ... ill.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm not talking about what the Nazis did to the Jewish people. I was talking about the rise of the Nazi party before the holocaust began. I was talking about how Jewish people were demonized and subjugated, not only by the rising Nazi party but by the German people.

But as far as I am aware the Jewish people didn’t have factions preaching hate and violence against them. They didn’t have millions pouring into their country and refusing to integrate into their way of life. Jewish people integrated well whilst still having their own religion and culture. They learned the language and were not trying to tell others how to live. They were generally very productive to the economy for example.

Many see a significant difference.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

An couple of examples. Before WW2 and as the Nazi party were forming, a general distaste for Jewish people started to spread throughout Germany. This of course was prompted through propaganda media channels and radio. Was there a stirring of anti-semitism and if not why not?

More recently we've been the spectators of war in the Middle East by both tribal natives and the West. We then started to see terrorist attacks on our own shores and suddenly we were all talking about Muslims. Every day for years we have had something in one paper or other condemning the Islamic faith and on every political forum we've had many debates about the sinfulness of Islam. Is that a stirring up of anti-semitism? and if not why not?

To be fair, attacks on the Jewish folks had been going on for centuries prior to the uprising of the Nazi party. Jews were primarily blamed for the killing of the jesus, which bred mistrust and led to lies such of blood libel (the murdering of Christian children for their blood) being laid against them.

The nazi's just made it a policy, but the resentment and mistrust of Jews had been built up by the catholic church in the middle ages.

[DemolitionRed]

I deliberately brought in the discussion prior to the Holocaust. I lost relatives in the Holocaust or at least my husband did. The Holocaust is a whole other tragedy.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

But as far as I am aware the Jewish people didn’t have factions preaching hate and violence against them. They didn’t have millions pouring into their country and refusing to integrate into their way of life. Jewish people integrated well whilst still having their own religion and culture. They learned the language and were not trying to tell others how to live. They were generally very productive to the economy for example.

Many see a significant difference.

Neither do most Muslim families.

[DemolitionRed]

There is no doubt that there are little pockets of evil Muslims but they don't represent all. The constant threads about Muslims does represent them all. They have now, by some on here, all been bunched together in a joint evil.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

To be fair, attacks on the Jewish folks had been going on for centuries prior to the uprising of the Nazi party. Jews were primarily blamed for the killing of the jesus, which bred mistrust and led to lies such of blood libel (the murdering of Christian children for their blood) being laid against them.

The nazi's just made it a policy, but the resentment and mistrust of Jews had been built up by the catholic church in the middle ages.

That's true, they have spent centuries being demonized by different faiths and they still got demonized when they escaped Nazi occupation and came to places like the UK. We were very cruel to the escaping Jewish people. Most Jews arriving here, including my farther-in-law (as a small child) had to change their name and were advised not to let neighbors know they were Jewish. The Daily Mail put out daily propaganda about how the Jewish men were raping our women and kidnapping our children. English people were encouraged to fear the incoming Jews and that to me, feels very similar to what the Daily Mail is doing today. Different religion, same propaganda.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

What is this new and interesting use of the phrase anti-Semitism?

(People didn't like islamophobia and decided this was a better way to describe their views last week )

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Neither do most Muslim families.

I meant the Nazis didn’t have Jewish factions preaching hate and death etc against them in the way that those threatening Britain @nd the rest of Europe today are Muslim. Your interpretation makes no sense.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

(People didn't like islamophobia and decided this was a better way to describe their views last week )

Phobias don’t usually have any solid foundations and are based on an irrational fear. The criticism of Islam and it’s treatment of Women is very rational.

You also can’t just make up any old ‘phobia’ word to try and shut down criticism and expect people to blindly accept it. Antisemitism is at least a real word.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I meant the Nazis didn’t have Jewish factions preaching hate and death etc against them in the way that those threatening Britain @nd the rest of Europe today are Muslim. Your interpretation makes no sense.

But that's only a small pocket of Muslims, not Muslims as a whole. Muslim as a whole are not threatening Britain or Europe but when you read snippets of the Daily Mail you could easily believe its all Muslims.