[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Nor do they disprove them, it's simply a theory that is under review isn't it?

I'm not looking to propose my opinion as fact, all I'm wanting at the moment is the right to have one without being insulted.

Again, I refer to my Loch Ness monster argument.

I've not insulted you so drop the victim act and accept the fact that people can have their opinions on YOUR opinions because that's how discussions works.

You made a absolute statement that is ultimately unfounded despite many studies since the early 90's to try to determine whether games can make people more violent. Science has not been able to find a link in that long, it's safe to say that it does not exist.

You can make your statements and I (and anyone else) are perfectly entitled to tell you that you are wrong and point out why.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Again, I refer to my Loch Ness monster argument.

I've not insulted you so drop the victim act and accept the fact that people can have their opinions on YOUR opinions because that's how discussions works.

You made a absolute statement that it ultimately unfounded despite many studies since the early 90's to try to determine whether games can make people more violent. Science has not been able to find a link in that long, it's safe to say that it does not exist.

You can make your statements and I (and anyone else) are perfectly entitled to tell you that you are wrong and point out why.

So I refer to actual scientific study and you to an analogy involving the Loch Ness monster?... ok.

I haven't stated at all that games make people violent.... you're wrong there,I suggested they normalise violence to an extent where it may be possible to become desensitised TO violence.

I had an opinion on the topic, it'd disingenuous of you to suggest I haven't watched the trailer or if I did I mustn't have understood it, I found that insulting. It's not for you to say how I find your responses .

I don't accept your 'right ' to tell me my opinions are wrong, and as I have stated many times now the accusation of being ignorant or inexperienced on any given topic is not a reason to denigrate anyones opinion.

It may be that a longitudinal study is required the measure the childhood to adulthood effects...who knows?

I don't care one iota whether you feel my opinion is wrong, bur have the respect to acknowledge I am entitled to feel how I choose on this or any topic.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

So I refer to actual scientific study and you to an analogy involving the Loch Ness monster?... ok.

I haven't stated at all that games make people violent.... you're wrong there,I suggested they normalise violence to an extent where it may be possible to become desensitised TO violence.

I had an opinion on the topic, it'd disingenuous of you to suggest I haven't watched the trailer or if I did I mustn't have understood it, I found that insulting. It's not for you to say how I find your responses .

I don't accept your 'right ' to tell me my opinions are wrong, and as I have stated many times now the accusation of being ignorant or inexperienced on any given topic is not a reason to denigrate anyones opinion.

It may be that a longitudinal study is required the measure the childhood to adulthood effects...who knows?

I don't care one iota whether you feel my opinion is wrong, bur have the respect to acknowledge I am entitled to feel how I choose on this or any topic.

As we've already said, the study you linked to had a fatal flaw that you haven't really responded to. Sure, if people play enough games they become desensitised to violence WITHIN games but that doesn't mean they become desensitised to REAL violence or become more prone to committing it either.

Like I said in the examples before, if you watch a sad film enough times, it won't affect you the way it did when you first watched it, it doesn't mean that you won't be emotionally affected if you were to suffer a similar emotional event in real life as the characters in the said film.

It's been over twenty years since these kinds of studies have taken place and that's probably not counting the studies that would have happened in the 80's and such when Mary Whitehouse got up on a soapbox and wanted to ban whatever upset her. If there was any real proof, it would have been discovered by now.

Don't try to make out people are insulting you because you are losing the argument, you are reaching with these accusations and it's obvious to everyone.

It IS my right to tell you you are wrong because that's my ****ing opinion. I don't care if you can't accept that, it doesn't change the fact that I think you're wrong and all you are doing with your accusations is exactly what you are accusing me of doing.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

As we've already said, the study you linked to had a fatal flaw that you haven't really responded to. Sure, if people play enough games they become desensitised to violence WITHIN games but that doesn't mean they become desensitised to REAL violence or become more prone to committing it either.

Like I said in the examples before, if you watch a sad film enough times, it won't affect you the way it did when you first watched it, it doesn't mean that you won't be emotionally affected if you were to suffer a similar emotional event in real life as the characters in the said film.

It's been over twenty years since these kinds of studies have taken place and that's probably not counting the studies that would have happened in the 80's and such when Mary Whitehouse got up on a soapbox and wanted to ban whatever upset her. If there was any real proof, it would have been discovered by now.

Don't try to make out people are insulting you because you are losing the argument, you are reaching with these accusations and it's obvious to everyone.

It IS my right to tell you you are wrong because that's my ****ing opinion. I don't care if you can't accept that, it doesn't change the fact that I think you're wrong and all you are doing with your accusations is exactly what you are accusing me of doing.

And this theory is evidence based...Where is it then?

Are you suggesting we should take evidence from the 80s to debunk my theory, what was in the study donkey kong?... Modern games are a tad more realistic, and as such they affect people more, like these the characters have depth... personality, character they are relatable on an emotional level.... Why is it so hard to reason that they could affect how we think or feel, especially if playing as a child? Games have age appropriate content, why if they can't affect us?

I'm not losing the argument, my argument hasn't changed.. it's exactly the same, you've completely misinterpreted my comments to suggest I was stating games made people violent... I never said that.

I'm not saying you are wrong in your opinion as I've stated earlier whatever you opinions are you are welcome to them I'm not going to attempt to suggest you're wrong...Though quite why you feel you can so rudely slight my opinion I don't know :/

I get it you think 'm wrong... Let it be known I don't care you think that... have the grace to let me revel in my wrongness should I so wish!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

And this theory is evidence based...Where is it then?

Are you suggesting we should take evidence from the 80s to debunk my theory, what was in the study donkey kong?... Modern games are a tad more realistic, and as such they affect people more, like these the characters have depth... personality, character they are relatable on an emotional level.... Why is it so hard to reason that they could affect how we think or feel, especially if playing as a child? Games have age appropriate content, why if they can't affect us?

I'm not losing the argument, my argument hasn't changed.. it's exactly the same, you've completely misinterpreted my comments to suggest I was stating games made people violent... I never said that.

I'm not saying you are wrong in your opinion as I've stated earlier whatever you opinions are you are welcome to them I'm not going to attempt to suggest you're wrong...Though quite why you feel you can so rudely slight my opinion I don't know :/

I get it you think 'm wrong... Let it be known I don't care you think that... have the grace to let me revel in my wrongness should I so wish!

It's based on all the studies that have not been able to provide a link between violence in video games and violence in real life and it's just common sense really.

I see you misunderstood my point about the 80's, try reading a post a few more times before responding to make sure you understand. The reason why I brought up the 80's because there was people with the exact same thoughts towards 'video nasties' that believed they could desensitise children to violence or make them more violent in turn. No evidence backed them up then and no evidence backs up this crusade against video games now. Not being affected by violence that's not real does not mean that you won't be affected by actual violence.

Games are age restricted for the same reasons that TV shows and films are, that should be common sense. The BBFC does not classify games differently to films, the same standards still remain. Games, like films and TV shows can affect us on an emotional level, there's a number of games that will make you weep like you've just watched tearjerker, games are more effective at making us feel fear than horror films since you can't look away but all these feelings don't translate to real life. You don't go through life having emotional breakdowns over the fact that Mufasa died in The Lion King. The emotions a person feels whilst watching a film or playing a game remains tied to that.

No, you keep making out that I'm saying you aren't entitled to your opinion, you are and I'm entitled to dissect that opinion however you please like you can to mine.

I have never been restricted from playing or watching whatever films or games I want to watch. Watching and playing violent films and video games from a young age has never affected me because I knew it was not real and I could differentiate between what's acceptable in a game and what's acceptable in reality. Again, not being affected by simulated violence is not the same as not being affected by actual violence.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's based on all the studies that have not been able to provide a link between violence in video games and violence in real life and it's just common sense really.

I see you misunderstood my point about the 80's, try reading a post a few more times before responding to make sure you understand. The reason why I brought up the 80's because there was people with the exact same thoughts towards 'video nasties' that believed they could desensitise children to violence or make them more violent in turn. No evidence backed them up then and no evidence backs up this crusade against video games now. Not being affected by violence that's not real does not mean that you won't be affected by actual violence.

Games are age restricted for the same reasons that TV shows and films are, that should be common sense. The BBFC does not classify games differently to films, the same standards still remain. Games, like films and TV shows can affect us on an emotional level, there's a number of games that will make you weep like you've just watched tearjerker, games are more effective at making us feel fear than horror films since you can't look away but all these feelings don't translate to real life. You don't go through life having emotional breakdowns over the fact that Mufasa died in The Lion King. The emotions a person feels whilst watching a film or playing a game remains tied to that.

No, you keep making out that I'm saying you aren't entitled to your opinion, you are and I'm entitled to dissect that opinion however you please like you can to mine.

I have never been restricted from playing or watching whatever films or games I want to watch. Watching and playing violent films and video games from a young age has never affected me because I knew it was not real and I could differentiate between what's acceptable in a game and what's acceptable in reality. Again, not being affected by simulated violence is not the same as not being affected by actual violence.

You can't excuse your lack of evidence as 'it's just common sense' :/

Again you're alluding to the link between violence in games and real life violence ... for the third time that was not, and is not my issue, instead of mocking me for your misunderstanding make sure you are aware of what my point is in relation to the topic.

I would say the parts in bold reinforce my argument more than yours too, for the reasons I stated earlier, there will be factors that could influence psychological impact the game quality for certain that won't have been an issue in the 80s. The age of the gamer is another factor, as with films there's always going to be younger people playing 18 games, we can't be certain they won't have been affected.

You can dissect my opinion if you like, you're not in a position to say it's wrong however as I'm not stating it as fact, all you have to counter is your opinion which also is not fact.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

You can't excuse your lack of evidence as 'it's just common sense' :/

Again you're alluding to the link between violence in games and real life violence ... for the third time that was not, and is not my issue, instead of mocking me for your misunderstanding make sure you are aware of what my point is in relation to the topic.

I would say the parts in bold reinforce my argument more than yours too, for the reasons I stated earlier, there will be factors that could influence psychological impact the game quality for certain that won't have been an issue in the 80s. The age of the gamer is another factor, as with films there's always going to be younger people playing 18 games, we can't be certain they won't have been affected.

You can dissect my opinion if you like, you're not in a position to say it's wrong however as I'm not stating it as fact, all you have to counter is your opinion which also is not fact.

Why do you keep ignoring the majority of my posts and making out that my only argument is common sense? Also I know exactly what your argument is, I've commented on it enough just for you to keep ignoring it and focusing on bits you can misrepresent.

I haven't got a lack of evidence, I am the ****ing evidence, years of research that has yet to prove that games can have a detrimental effect on people's real life empathy or reactions to violence IS my evidence too. You are literally clinging to one study that stated an obvious fact, people become desensitised to VIRTUAL violence when they see a lot of it but no study has been able to prove there's a similar desensitivity to actual violence because of exposure to similated violence. I've explained why it's the case for films as well multiple times but you chose to ignore it since you can't argue against it.

Violent video games are not a new fangled thing, they have been around for over twenty years, if they have a negative effect on children we would have seen results or proof of that but we haven't.

Well you DID state an opinion like it was a fact.

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

'Modern' video games are about the normalisation of violence and/ or abuse, mocking those who highlight this as a issue reiterates my point.

I've never stated my opinions like they are facts obviously because I've repeated my mantra on opinions repeatedly in this thread, keep up Kizzy.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Again, I refer to my Loch Ness monster argument.

I've not insulted you so drop the victim act and accept the fact that people can have their opinions on YOUR opinions because that's how discussions works.

You made a absolute statement that is ultimately unfounded despite many studies since the early 90's to try to determine whether games can make people more violent. Science has not been able to find a link in that long, it's safe to say that it does not exist.

You can make your statements and I (and anyone else) are perfectly entitled to tell you that you are wrong and point out why.

You always insult and then always play the victim by claiming others are playing the victim.

You take absolutely no responsibility for your own actions and always try and turn it around on to the people you constantly insult.

You are on a public website - you must either think everyone is blind or so stupid that a few words from you stating everyone else is playing the victim card will get you off the hook. You are not kidding anyone, only yourself.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You always insult and then always play the victim by claiming others are playing the victim.

You take absolutely no responsibility for your own actions and always try and turn it around on to the people you constantly insult.

You are on a public website - you must either think everyone is blind or so stupid that a few words from you stating everyone else is playing the victim card will get you off the hook. You are not kidding anyone, only yourself.

So you have nothing of interest to add to the topic, okay.