[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Rob!

Oh, so a woman who can't have children isn't a woman? You get better every day, don't you?

Please read what I said " or has the means to do so" don't change my wording or meaning

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I think that is too simplistic a view. If you don't fancy girls/or boys and the person looks like what you don't fancy. Them thinking they are isn't going to cut it.

Thats not what the question asked though.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yes I know, I was more interested in those who say that transwomen are actual women rather than transwomen. To say that, there must be a different meaning of 'woman' than adult human female. That meaning, that is not about biology, is what I was trying to figure out. Am actually glad withano gave that answer as I can kind of understand now where people are coming from when they say that now. Usually the answer given is 'anyone who identifies as a woman' which is clearly a nonsensical definition as its circular.

As for male brains and female brains...jury is out. Brains tend to be mosaic and they actually change based on life experiences. For example a taxi driver can be identified as a taxi driver based on brain scans. I know sex dysphoria shows on brain scans though, same as anorexia can be identified on brain scans.

but at its fundamental level, its still biology, as it is biology and chemistry that dictate the operation of the brain. You receive a particular stimuli and your body's biology shapes its reaction to that stimuli across the extent of your body including your brain.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Trans women are still on the same level as Men as far as physical strength goes so can never be a victim in the same way as a woman. That will never change. They only had one muscle removed not the strength related ones.

Exactly !

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Please read what I said " or has the means to do so" don't change my wording or meaning

Read what he said. Some women do not have the means to do so.

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Please read what I said " or has the means to do so" don't change my wording or meaning

Yes, and some women do NOT have the means to do so. There are a plethora of ailments, illnesses and disabilities that take away those means, so are they not real women?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

but at its fundamental level, its still biology, as it is biology and chemistry that dictate the operation of the brain. You receive a particular stimuli and your body's biology shapes its reaction to that stimuli across the extent of your body including your brain.

Yes, tis not me you need to be arguing with about brain sex. I think brain sex is a load of bollocks and given how much money and time has been thrown at studying it there would have been some kind of proof by now if it existed

I also think woman is an adult human female, and man is an adult human male.

And that transwomen are transwomen, not women. And transmen are transmen, not men.

I just try and understand when the conversations actually happen, as generally if you ask questions someone just screams 'transphobe' and runs away. Withano and me are always polar opposites on this, but seem to be able to talk about it without resorting to insults. Same with jamie876 (or whatever the numbers are). Makes no sense to be trying to shut down conversations with 'you are a bigot' as happens on near every other site (bar mumsnet) when it IS a quite fascinating topic that should be discussed. The ridiculous 'nodebate' hashtag surrounding this issue is just that...ridiculous and backwards.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Read what he said. Some women do not have the means to do so.

They are born women,very rarely a woman can be born without a womb, but she has everything else to make a baby, India will NEVER have what it takes so therefore will never be a woman

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

They are born women,very rarely a woman can be born without a womb, but she has everything else to make a baby, India will NEVER have what it takes so therefore will never be a woman

Yes very rarely but women with wombs can be infertile and born so.

[Vicky.]

Infertile women are still of the sex that has the potential to bear children. Infertile men are still of the sex that have the potential to sire children. Is surely the easy way of putting this?!

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

They are born women,very rarely a woman can be born without a womb, but she has everything else to make a baby, India will NEVER have what it takes so therefore will never be a woman

You've got such a bizarre view as to what makes a woman though. According to you, it's nothing to do with chromosomes, or oestrogen, or technicalities, it's literally whether they're a child producing factory. What a depressing outlook on your own gender.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Rob!

Yes, and some women do NOT have the means to do so. There are a plethora of ailments, illnesses and disabilities that take away those means, so are they not real women?

They usually have a womb and a uterus. A transgender does not.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

They usually have a womb and a uterus. A transgender does not.

So when a woman has her womb removed? It takes away her womanlyness?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes very rarely but women with wombs can be infertile and born so.

Being infertile doesn't stop you been a full woman, what a cruel thing to say

[Withano]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Being infertile doesn't stop you been a full woman, what a cruel thing to say

You literally said that though

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Rob!

You've got such a bizarre view as to what makes a woman though. According to you, it's nothing to do with chromosomes, or oestrogen, or technicalities, it's literally whether they're a child producing factory. What a depressing outlook on your own gender.

A gender India will never be part of

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Being infertile doesn't stop you been a full woman, what a cruel thing to say

I said not all women are born with the means to have children?

What you just said was stated in your post pet.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Infertile women are still of the sex that has the potential to bear children. Infertile men are still of the sex that have the potential to sire children. Is surely the easy way of putting this?!

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Being infertile doesn't stop you been a full woman, what a cruel thing to say

It's literally what you just said, so yeah, it was cruel.

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

A gender India will never be part of

And you have the deciding vote on that do you? Newsflash: you don't. Fortunately, there are people in the world who are a LOT more progressive than you. You've literally said in this thread that if you don't have a womb or a uterus, you're not a woman. Do you really think you're the best person to decide what constitutes a woman?

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

They are born women,very rarely a woman can be born without a womb, but she has everything else to make a baby, India will NEVER have what it takes so therefore will never be a woman

What is born woman though... especially in the case of looks and feels like a woman but has no womb. You are putting your own bias parameters on gender.

It genetic... yes. But chromosomal differences are appearing all the time. Some people are born with both types of sexual organs. It's chemical... some bodies make or are exposed to different variations of hormones that in higher or lower amounts make your sexuality differ. It's mental... it's emotional. How can anyone at this point say that you are born boy so you are boy. We all know so much more know scientifically and psychologically that this isn't the case. Just because you are in denial that the world isn't black and white and put into boxes the way your generation set it up... where being who you were was a crime for hundreds if thousands of people... doesn't make you rt.

[Barry.]

I would yes if they had everything changed.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Rob!

It's literally what you just said, so yeah, it was cruel.



And you have the deciding vote on that do you? Newsflash: you don't. Fortunately, there are people in the world who are a LOT more progressive than you. You've literally said in this thread that if you don't have a womb or a uterus, you're not a woman. Do you really think you're the best person to decide what constitutes a woman?

with respect, she is in a far better position to say what constitutes a woman than you are, and its very telling that peoples words are being twisted on this thread to try and make them look bad when they just disagree with the concept of a trans woman being the same as a biological woman etc.

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

with respect, she is in a far better position to say what constitutes a woman than you are, and its very telling that peoples words are being twisted on this thread to try and make them look bad when they just disagree with the concept of a trans woman being the same as a biological woman etc.

Not when her views are that a woman is only a woman when she's popping out kids. Surely even other women would find that offensive?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Mokka

What is born woman though... especially in the case of looks and feels like a woman but has no womb. You are putting your own bias parameters on gender.

It genetic... yes. But chromosomal differences are appearing all the time. Some people are born with both types of sexual organs. It's chemical... some bodies make or are exposed to different variations of hormones that in higher or lower amounts make your sexuality differ. It's mental... it's emotional. How can anyone at this point say that you are born boy so you are boy. We all know so much more know scientifically and psychologically that this isn't the case. Just because you are in denial that the world isn't black and white and put into boxes the way your generation set it up... where being who you were was a crime for hundreds if thousands of people... doesn't make you rt.

"My biased perimeters" get a grip love, Im stating facts , A woman is born a woman ,a man is born a man, and this is how it will stay until science comes up with the reproductive capabilities needed for both sexes

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

with respect, she is in a far better position to say what constitutes a woman than you are, and its very telling that peoples words are being twisted on this thread to try and make them look bad when they just disagree with the concept of a trans woman being the same as a biological woman etc.

Is she though?
Does being a woman automatically make you in a better constitution to judge other women. I disagree strongly with this logic