[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Who asked the rail service to choose what people read?

Strange censorship.

They're not... they're choosing what to sell.

I personally think the most obvious answer here, though, is for them to just completely stop selling papers on the trains. Realistically, anyone who wants to read a newspaper on the train is able to buy one on the way to the station, or even at the station. I actually can't imagine that they sell many copies of any paper.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's your take on this? Interesting.

I don't believe that the Daily Mail is not selling and that's the reason they've removed it.

I hate the Daily Mail. I hate censorship more.

No that isn't my take on this, does that even count as a take did you quote the wrong person?

[Withano]

Imagine how many trains virgin runs every day... hundreds for sure, thousands probably. And they sell one in every four trains. Imagine how much that would cost for the sake of a couple guys with poor taste in journalism. Let's be sensible about this @whineyrighties. It's not worth the hassle.

It'd be like kicking up a fuss cos they only have mars bars and not milkyways. Get out of here with your obscure taste, you should have planned ahead

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Withano

Imagine how many trains virgin runs every day... hundreds for sure, thousands probably. And they sell one in every four trains. Imagine how much that would cost for the sake of a couple guys with poor taste in journalism. Let's be sensible about this @whineyrighties. It's not worth the hassle.

It'd be like kicking up a fuss cos they only have mars bars and not milkyways. Get out of here with your obscure taste, you should have planned ahead

Again though newspapers are supplied on a sale or return basis so it doesn't cost them much at all

[Withano]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Again though newspapers are supplied on a sale or return basis so it doesn't cost them much at all

Seems like a bit of a faff

[jet]

Originally Posted by Withano

Seems like a bit of a faff

No, the faff is the nonsense that they only sell one for every four trains. The Daily Mail is Britain's best selling newspaper. Strange that its only people who travel on Virgin trains that don't buy them and buy other papers instead. You think that's likely do you? Get real.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Then why don't you focus on that instead of the past? You keep bringing up remainers and lefties and to me, it just seems like a distraction from the fact that the things you voted for aren't going the way you want them. If you think things will go your way then why aren't you focused on the future?

Leave won, the Tories are still in charge and you can only say 'Leftie this, remainer that.' You don't have much faith in your choices, do you?

You have some strange logic going on there. I have total faith in MY choices - what I don’t have faith in is the sore losers who just keep trying and trying to overturn the vote under the guise of this and the guise of that. People so arrogant they think they need to save all the Brexiteers from themselves whilst at the same time getting what they want.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jet

No, the faff is the nonsense that they only sell one for every four trains. The Daily Mail is Britain's best selling newspaper. Strange that its only people who travel on Virgin trains that don't buy them and buy other papers instead. You think that's likely do you? Get real.

I cant think of anybody who would buy a paper for the train tbh. The metro is free, and everyone uses their phones for news anyway. For that reason, I'd imagine the only people who would buy papers on trains are more upper class prrhaps, and I dont think thats the DM's target audience.

I dont really care though, this is literally affecting tens of people a tiny amount. They now have to buy their paper before the train. Oh ****ing no.

[Jamie89]

It sounds like a business decision rather than censorship to me. There's probably a lot of newspapers and magazines they don't stock but it's not as though any of them are banned.

And do we know that people were complaining about it being sold? I read 'feedback' as possibly just being something like those customer surveys... "which of our newspapers do you enjoy reading" sort of thing, rather than people actually complaining about them being sold, unless I'm mistaken? Seems more likely though given the terminology in the article and the fact they weren't actually selling very many of them.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Withano

I cant think of anybody who would buy a paper for the train tbh. The metro is free, and everyone uses their phones for news anyway. For that reason, I'd imagine the only people who would buy papers on trains are more upper class prrhaps, and I dont think thats the DM's target audience.

I dont really care though, this is literally affecting tens of people a tiny amount. They now have to buy their paper before the train. Oh ****ing no.

Did you read the article?

And Drew McMillan, head of colleague communication and engagement at Virgin, told staff in an internal memo: "Thousands of people choose to read the Daily Mail every day. But they will no longer be reading it courtesy of VT.
"There's been considerable concern raised by colleagues about the Mail's editorial position on issues such as immigration, LGBT rights and unemployment.
"We've decided that this paper is not compatible with the VT brand and our beliefs.
"We will continue to offer The Times to customers, but we won't be stocking the Daily Mail for sale or as a giveaway.
"This won't suit all of our customers or all of our people - it's certain to draw some criticism. But we've listened to many colleagues over the last few months, and we feel that this is the right move to take."

The article states they still sell the Mirror, the FT and the Times.

I'm surprised at how many on here are making excuses for this censorship and ignoring all this and only bleating about 'they only sell 1 for every 4 trains. It's quite hilarious to read.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jet

Did you read the article?



The article states they still sell the Mirror, the FT and the Times.

I'm surprised at how many on here are making excuses for this censorship and ignoring all this and only bleating about 'they only sell 1 for every 4 trains. It's quite hilarious to read.

...dont use their service then.. it really doesnt matter all that much, hardly anyone would even notice it was gone.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Withano

...dont use their service then.. it really doesnt matter all that much, hardly anyone would even notice it was gone.

The point is how many left minded are appearing to condone this censorship.
You are just letting yourselves down.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jet

The point is how many left minded are appearing to condone this censorship.
You are just letting yourselves down.

It has nothing to do with censorship though (for me). They could stop selling any paper for any reason, and guess how much I'd care. Its only funny (for me) because of how right minded people feel as if this is some sort of personal attack and the beginning of the end or something. Thats letting the side down, they need a can-do attitude! Prosper through it, Jet. I believe in you.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Withano

It has nothing to do with censorship though (for me). They could stop selling any paper for any reason, and guess how much I'd care. Its only funny (for me) because of how right minded people feel as if this is some sort of personal attack and the beginning of the end or something. Thats letting the side down, they need a can-do attitude! Prosper through it, Jet. I believe in you.

Yeah right, way to wriggle out. It's blatant censorship, anyone that can read can see that. I'm neither left or right minded, btw, I'm firmly middle of the road, it's just Corbyn I can't stand. Censorship is wrong, no matter what side it comes from.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jet

Yeah right, way to wriggle out. It's blatant censorship, anyone that can read can see that. I'm neither left or right minded, btw, I'm firmly middle of the road, it's just Corbyn I can't stand. Censorship is wrong, no matter what side it comes from.

Ok, I still don't believe it is censorship, and I still don't care that others do.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jet

Yeah right, way to wriggle out. It's blatant censorship, anyone that can read can see that. I'm neither left or right minded, btw, I'm firmly middle of the road, it's just Corbyn I can't stand. Censorship is wrong, no matter what side it comes from.

It simply is not censorship, though... the paper isn't banned, it just isn't being sold, and as the railway is privately owned, they can do whatever they want? If the railway was government owned I would agree with you, but Thatcher sold it. It's honestly that simple.

It's like when people bleat about "censorship" here on TiBB . NO it is a privately owned site and the owners can delete whatever they want, whenever they want and don't have to answer to anyone at all for it if they don't want to. That's private venture . In both cases your option is to vote with your feet; if you don't like it... don't buy Virgin Train tickets.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by jet

I'm surprised at how many on here are making excuses for this censorship and ignoring all this and only bleating about 'they only sell 1 for every 4 trains. It's quite hilarious to read.

The way I see it, is that as a train company they shouldn't really be obliged to sell any particular type of newspaper (or any product)... (I would actually find it more worrying if they were told they had to stock certain papers), so then it just comes down to what's best for them as a business in terms of sales and the image they want, and surely they should be free to make that decision? Or should all trains have to sell every newspaper? (and if so...why is that so important?) If they were to ban people having the DM on their trains then that'd be different and I'd be dead against it but that's not what's happening here so I can't see that anyone is being adversely affected by it.

[jet]

I disagree. A large company funded with millions of taxpayers money and paying customers shouldn't dictate what papers those customers are able to buy based on their own prejudices. It IS censorship, because they are censoring what their customers may want to read, whilst providing other papers which are in line with their own way of thinking.
It's saying 'Pay to travel with us, but while doing so, I want you to read this, not that.' Censorship, pure and simple.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You have some strange logic going on there. I have total faith in MY choices - what I don’t have faith in is the sore losers who just keep trying and trying to overturn the vote under the guise of this and the guise of that. People so arrogant they think they need to save all the Brexiteers from themselves whilst at the same time getting what they want.

And who would that be, exactly?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

Did you read the article?



The article states they still sell the Mirror, the FT and the Times.

I'm surprised at how many on here are making excuses for this censorship and ignoring all this and only bleating about 'they only sell 1 for every 4 trains. It's quite hilarious to read.

You can choose to ignore evidence that doesn't suit your own narrative but don't belittle people for actually paying attention to what's been said whether it benefits their point of view or not.

You would not walk into a shop and scream censorship if they didn't stock your newspaper of choice so why scream censorship here?

I'm guessing it's because you seem to misunderstand that the railways are privatised and they can choose what they want to sell on those trains. It's not a government controlled venture, it's a business. Would you cry censorship if it was a left leaning paper? I'm guessing you would be quite silent on the issue if that was the case.

Also the censorship argument falls flat on another level, The Daily Mail is not banned on these trains, you aren't going to get it taken off you if you read it on a Virgin train so to cry censorship is just plain silly, choosing not to sell an item is not censorship. It's just a ridiculous reach to say that it is.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You can choose to ignore evidence that doesn't suit your own narrative but don't belittle people for actually paying attention to what's been said whether it benefits their point of view or not.

You would not walk into a shop and scream censorship if they didn't stock your newspaper of choice so why scream censorship here?

I'm guessing it's because you seem to misunderstand that the railways are privatised and they can choose what they want to sell on those trains. It's not a government controlled venture, it's a business. Would you cry censorship if it was a left leaning paper? I'm guessing you would be quite silent on the issue if that was the case.

Also the censorship argument falls flat on another level, The Daily Mail is not banned on these trains, you aren't going to get it taken off you if you read it on a Virgin train so to cry censorship is just plain silly, choosing not to sell an item is not censorship. It's just a ridiculous reach to say that it is.

To limit access is censorship. It hasn’t limited access to other papers so it is categorically censorship. They haven’t banned it, too controversial, but limited access to it with the hope perhaps they can ‘encourage’ customers to read something a bit more to their liking. Quite pathetic really.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

To limit access is censorship. It hasn’t limited access to other papers so it is categorically censorship. Bluster away but it’s a load of old toss and everyone knows it.

Except it isn't censorship, it hasn't been banned from Virgin trains, you can still buy it from train stations and you can still read a copy on Virgin trains. you can try to denounce facts that don't suit your agenda as 'old toss' but it doesn't make them any less valid or the argument that this is censorship any less flawed.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You can choose to ignore evidence that doesn't suit your own narrative but don't belittle people for actually paying attention to what's been said whether it benefits their point of view or not.

You would not walk into a shop and scream censorship if they didn't stock your newspaper of choice so why scream censorship here?

I'm guessing it's because you seem to misunderstand that the railways are privatised and they can choose what they want to sell on those trains. It's not a government controlled venture, it's a business. Would you cry censorship if it was a left leaning paper? I'm guessing you would be quite silent on the issue if that was the case.

Also the censorship argument falls flat on another level, The Daily Mail is not banned on these trains, you aren't going to get it taken off you if you read it on a Virgin train so to cry censorship is just plain silly, choosing not to sell an item is not censorship. It's just a ridiculous reach to say that it is.

Did you say it was entirely the choice of Asher's Bakery, a private company, and totally agree with them when they refused to decorate a cake for a customer because it was against their beliefs? (I didn't agree with them, btw).

Virgin don't simply not stock the newspaper, they have withdrawn the sales and stated that the content is against their beliefs, never mind what the paying customer wants. You can't cry a private company can do what they want just when it suits you.

...and you obviously don't read posts properly. I have already stated that I am middle of the road politically and I think censorship is wrong from both sides.

Would YOU cry censorship if it was a left leaning paper?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Withano

I cant think of anybody who would buy a paper for the train tbh. The metro is free, and everyone uses their phones for news anyway. For that reason, I'd imagine the only people who would buy papers on trains are more upper class prrhaps, and I dont think thats the DM's target audience.

I dont really care though, this is literally affecting tens of people a tiny amount. They now have to buy their paper before the train. Oh ****ing no.

Absolutely.
If I use a train,which is rare but odd times I do.
I don't think I've come across anyone reading a so called newspaper.
As you state,people are usually on their phones/tablets etc.

You see magazines at times too.

Good points from you too Withano

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

Did you say it was entirely the choice of Asher's Bakery, a private company, and totally agree with them when they refused to decorate a cake for a customer because it was against their beliefs? (I didn't agree with them, btw).

Virgin don't simply not stock the newspaper, they have withdrawn the sales and stated that the content is against their beliefs, never mind what the paying customer wants. You can't cry a private company can do what they want just when it suits you.

...and you obviously don't read posts properly. I have already stated that I am middle of the road politically and I think censorship is wrong from both sides.

Would YOU cry censorship if it was a left leaning paper?

The bakery has been brought up before. If you think that refusing service to a customer on account of their sexuality is anything like a company simply deciding not to sell a newspaper that isn't selling on their trains then well that speaks for itself.

One is discrimination, the other isn't. It's quite simple. If you think those examples are comparable then you have a critical lack of understanding of both situations....unless you are actually trying to paint Daily Mail readers are a persecuted minority and if that's the case then I'd have no choice but to openly laugh at such a ridiculous statement.

What you are doing here is best described as reaching. If something isn't selling, you use the space it's occupying to stock something that will, basic retailer common sense. You talk about what the paying customer wants but if only a few copies are being sold over multiple trains then it's fairly obvious that the majority of Virgin customers don't care to read the Daily Mail.

Again, the Bakery comparison is so flawed that I can't believe you are making it with a straight face. Do you honestly believe that a company choosing not to stock a product that does not sell is comparable to denying service to someone because of homophobia? Really?

I wouldn't give a **** if it was a left leaning paper, I work in retail. I deal with stock orders and making sure we have what we need and where it needs to go to sell. I understand Virgin's decision because it would be a decision I'd make if a product was taking up space on my shelves and it wasn't selling.

I also don't read newspapers since I prefer to get my news from multiple sources online to paint a better picture of the true story so print media can die for all I care.