[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"No one" fails to understand this? I'm not saying that anyone on this thread has, but the claim that "no one" fails to understand and especially that "no one" is incensed and combative is clearly false.

The rest of it, is simply a case of you trying to to dismiss my opinions of this "women's only subject" because I'm male. Which is sexist, divisive and unequal, whether that fits the narrative or not. You're supposedly seeking equality whilst promoting exclusion, it's ridiculous.

ROFL.

Just like when it comes to asking run-of-the-mill white people to know their place when it comes to things they can never fully understand (aka black racism), that’s racist is it? What position are women in to be sexist?

Is there really a power injustice and oppression of straight white men in society for you to accuse a female of being sexist or do you just get high off throwing around silly reverse labels?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

ROFL.

Just like when it comes to asking run-of-the-mill white people to know their place when it comes to things they can never fully understand (aka black racism), that’s racist is it? What position are women in to be sexist?

Is there really a power injustice and oppression of straight white men in society for you to accuse a female of being sexist or do you just get high off throwing around silly reverse labels?

I have literally no interest in engaging with this, sorry.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I have literally no interest in engaging with this, sorry.

You still found the energy to reply though. Anything that facilitates your sense of white male entitlement.

All of what you’re saying’s like saying black people shouldn’t lead topics about black racism in the same way that white people shouldn’t. You can live in a bubble or drop the affected political correctness and admit that you can’t fully understand what you haven’t experienced on a personal level.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

You still found the energy to reply though. Anything that facilitates your sense of white male privilege.

All of what you’re saying’s like saying black people shouldn’t lead topics about black racism in the same way that white people shouldn’t. You can live in a bubble or drop the affected political correctness and admit that you can’t fully understand what you haven’t experienced on a personal level.

A discussion doesn't need to be lead or dominated to be constructive one between sets of people with varying understanding of the topic. If the only people permitt d to discuss a topic are those who already understand it then there is no need for discussion in the first place.

In your case, however, the issue is more simple;

Any point that you may have is so deeply buried under (not even very passive) aggression, righteous anger, sarcasm and general irrationality that it simply isn't worth engaging with. I'm afraid you might start posting crying-laughing emojis at me. "rofl".

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Redway

ROFL.

Just like when it comes to asking run-of-the-mill white people to know their place when it comes to things they can never fully understand (aka black racism), that’s racist is it? What position are women in to be sexist?

Is there really a power injustice and oppression of straight white men in society for you to accuse a female of being sexist or do you just get high off throwing around silly reverse labels?

I can already tell by this post that you’re one of the ‘white people can’t experience racism’ or ‘women can’t be sexist’ power,privilege rah rah rah etc etc crew.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I can already tell by this post that you’re one of the ‘white people can’t experience racism’ or ‘women can’t be sexist’ power,privilege rah rah rah etc etc crew.

Not on as deep a scale. Unless you’re talking about Jews and then I’d agree. Definitely not Western Europeans.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Vicky

Very well said Livia.

Of course male allys is a good thing. But men trying to basically...take over and tell women they are doing feminism wrong, well...thats a bit not good.

And so many men cannot help but dominate a conversation. Its socialized into them. Thats not an insult as socialization is extremely hard to fight (I have tried and failed many many times) so men being socialized to dominate and be strong, while women are socialized to be 'nice' and put others first..well its not a good combination is it...

Vicky, I will use your post as an example for my thoughts.

@Red This is a stereotype.

Ok, now apply this to a "protected group"... this conversation would be a non-starter obviously, but we're "socialized" to disregard bias against men, particularly white men.

This is why I said I think using labels and groups is going backwards. It's going backwards on decades of growth in individualism, which I would argue is what ushered the modern era and our strides in equality. When see each other as individuals, this is progress... when start to see each other as labels and as members of a group, then that is going backwards, back to group think and tribalism.

When we inherit groupthink, it is automatically tribal from the outset, whereas with the individual, we are not accountable to a group, we are accountable to ourselves. Which means the payment for failure is quite low for groups, but much higher for an individual and more personally felt.

If the group fails to account for it's own biases or an individual misbehaves, the group won't really flench unless it threatens it's hierarchy and continues on it's own way. So as long as the individual stays well within the group's philosophy and don't do anything stupid like "betray" the group then they will share the same protective ward of the rest of the group.

If the individual misbehaves on it's own, it's not empowered by the group, so no sense of immunity there, and therefore, much less likely to act out in a way that would face consequences for any sort of bigotry. (we see this on BB on every season)

This is why we've come as far as we have, because while there has always been a "community" in a much larger but looser sense of the term, the focus has been on the individual and we were not engaging in "group". Movements like these work waaaaay better when they enable individuals to speak for themselves, but not speak for them.

When we break ourselves into up into little groups, all we're doing is reusing the same exact weapons that created bias, in-equal treatment and prejudice throughout history. And those weapons are poisoned.