[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Not true. It's important to point out HOW it was achieved. Otherwise it's ends justify the means.
Tories brought public services to their knees and burdened the poorest more than the richest. It would be very wrong not to recognize that.

"Tories brought public services to their knees"


this obviously is false

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"Tories brought public services to their knees"


this obviously is false

Why do you think this, are you ignoring the weight of evidence to the contrary?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why do you think this, are you ignoring the weight of evidence to the contrary?

its hyperbole

the type of twaddle that gets shouted through a loud hailer at rallies

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

its hyperbole

the type of twaddle that gets shouted through a loud hailer at rallies

That doesn't mean that it's false does it?...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That doesn't mean that it's false does it?...

Yes, it is designed to make people angry and excited and has little to do with fact

West Ham used to sing "hes fat, hes round, he fills up half the ground" to Gazza but it was inaccurate and had little basis in fact

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Yes, it is designed to make people angry and excited and has little to do with fact

West Ham used to sing "hes fat, hes round, he fills up half the ground" to Gazza but it was inaccurate and had little basis in fact

Have you toyed with the idea that it makes people angry because it is fact, or taken any steps to find out whether it's fact or not?

Your comparison to political statements and football chants isn't helpful.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"Tories brought public services to their knees"


this obviously is false

I'd rather go by reality and not by your interpretation of it, LT

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I'd rather go by reality and not by your interpretation of it, LT

then provide actual and specific evidence and not "left wing rally porn"

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

then provide actual and specific evidence and not "left wing rally porn"

what, spend time proving white is white and black is black? Daily media coverage over the last years have been doing that. Not my fault if you haven't been paying attention.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

what, spend time proving white is white and black is black? Daily media coverage over the last years have been doing that. Not my fault if you haven't been paying attention.

If only everyone as a clever and caught on as you, eh? You must be a genius or something.

Or maybe people just have differing opinions.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Livia

If only everyone as a clever and caught on as you, eh? You must be a genius or something.

Or maybe people just have differing opinions.

Provide some factual basis for your opinions then.

And fgs, stop these personal attacks because it shows desperation and is a bit embarrassing to read.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Provide some factual basis for your opinions then.

And fgs, stop these personal attacks because it shows desperation and is a bit embarrassing to read.

"Provide some factual basis for your opinions then."

"Tories brought public services to their knees"



so lets see you walk the walk then?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Provide some factual basis for your opinions then.

And fgs, stop these personal attacks because it shows desperation and is a bit embarrassing to read.

Where's all the facts supporting your own opinions? Or is it just me who has to provide evidence?

And again.... what did we do here before you wafted in in January to show us all where we've been going wrong? Or maybe you're not new at all, who knows...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

what, spend time proving white is white and black is black? Daily media coverage over the last years have been doing that. Not my fault if you haven't been paying attention.

so i take it you cant actually back up your loud hailer claim?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

what, spend time proving white is white and black is black? Daily media coverage over the last years have been doing that. Not my fault if you haven't been paying attention.

'Daily Media Coverage' - as you WILL discover when you have been on here a while longer - means absolutely ZILCH, NADA, NOTHING to certain members if it does not support and corroborate their viewpoints.

Such 'Daily Media Coverage', when quoted on here, elicits inane derision such as; "Pah.... It's the Daily Mail, Sun, Star, etc" and the content is irrationally dismissed - even though that same content has been reported in numerous other newspapers and by the BBC or ITV news etc.

And it is not just 'Daily Media Coverage' either which is so conveniently decried because DIRECT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE is too and the poster is virtually made out to be a liar - if that direct personal experience also does not coincide with those same members viewpoints.

Opinions are opinions, preferences are preferences, but FACTS are FACTS.

Or should be.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

'Daily Media Coverage' - as you WILL discover when you have been on here a while longer - means absolutely ZILCH, NADA, NOTHING to certain members if it does not support and corroborate their viewpoints.

Such 'Daily Media Coverage', when quoted on here, elicits inane derision such as; "Pah.... It's the Daily Mail, Sun, Star, etc" and the content is irrationally dismissed - even though that same content has been reported in numerous other newspapers and by the BBC or ITV news etc.

And it is not just 'Daily Media Coverage' either which is so conveniently decried because DIRECT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE is too and the poster is virtually made out to be a liar - if that direct personal experience also does not coincide with those same members viewpoints.

Opinions are opinions, preferences are preferences, but FACTS are FACTS.

Or should be.

ok, so how about professional associations in nhs and police calling on government to stop cutting because it affects functioning of their services?
how about association of local councils warning of dangers to services due to cuts?

edit: and btw, welcome, I understand you are a returning and popular member.
it seems a bit funny for a newbie like me welcoming you, an old-timer

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

ok, so how about professional associations in nhs and police calling on government to stop cutting because it affects functioning of their services?
how about association of local councils warning of dangers to services due to cuts?

edit: and btw, welcome, I understand you are a returning and popular member.
it seems a bit funny for a newbie like me welcoming you, an old-timer

I am not disputing any of the above. I can find lots of faults with this Government - as I can EVERY other Government of the past 50 years or so - what I was referring to was your apparent faith that 'Daily Media Coverage' was some kind of 'irrefutable' evidence which can be used on here to help win an argument/debate/ prove a point.

It OUGHT to be, but on TIBB, that depends upon the argument and those whom you are arguing against.

Thank you for the 'Welcome Back', which I appreciate.

[jet]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

'Daily Media Coverage' - as you WILL discover when you have been on here a while longer - means absolutely ZILCH, NADA, NOTHING to certain members if it does not support and corroborate their viewpoints.

Such 'Daily Media Coverage', when quoted on here, elicits inane derision such as; "Pah.... It's the Daily Mail, Sun, Star, etc" and the content is irrationally dismissed - even though that same content has been reported in numerous other newspapers and by the BBC or ITV news etc.

And it is not just 'Daily Media Coverage' either which is so conveniently decried because DIRECT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE is too and the poster is virtually made out to be a liar - if that direct personal experience also does not coincide with those same members viewpoints.

Opinions are opinions, preferences are preferences, but FACTS are FACTS.

Or should be.

Absolutely spot on Kirk!

Some decry the lack of debates when the truth is you can debate, post links and relate personal experiences until you're blue in the face and it is often just brushed off as nonsense as some just refuse to give due consideration to anything than conflicts with their own carved in stone stances.

It's the 'I don't like what you're saying/what that link is saying so I'm not going to believe a word of it' syndrome.
It often makes debates pointless really and a waste of time.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

then provide actual and specific evidence and not "left wing rally porn"

Right back at you. Provide actual and specific evidence and not baiting posts about the government doing well designed to mock people you don't like.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Right back at you. Provide actual and specific evidence and not baiting posts about the government doing well designed to mock people you don't like.

if you want to make a new thread about the Conservative governments record this term go ahead but the claim we are dealing with in this thread is that Public Services and by that statement it appears ALL are "on there knees"

perhaps you wish to try and evidence that in this thread?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

if you want to make a new thread about the Conservative governments record this term go ahead but the claim we are dealing with in this thread is that Public Services and by that statement it appears ALL are "on there knees"

perhaps you wish to try and evidence that in this thread?

You're not dealing with any claim, all you're doing is making silly posts like "aha the government has done so well everyone. Aww everybody's agreed they've done us proud " style baiting posts.