[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

“Fully transition” ?

What?do some just get the bolloxs cut off and call it a day?

Some can't have all the procedures done for a variety of reasons. I have a female to male friend who was given the procedure to have his breasts removed, but he isn't allowed 'bottom surgery' for medical reasons.

This is where it sort of complicates the issue. He's a man to look at, to meet him, to hear him speak, if he was seen entering a women's changing room he would probably be considered a pervert, I'd assume that many of the people who don't want men in female areas would not want him there because to look at him they would assume he's a man. However he has a vagina, and although not 'fully transitioned', he is a transsexual man. Under the rule of 'penises here and vaginas there', as simple as it might sound as a solution, it wouldn't leave someone like him with many other options other than to just stay at home, or be forced to show his vagina on entry to a women's private space should he need to use one.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Some can't have all the procedures done for a variety of reasons. I have a female to male friend who was given the procedure to have his breasts removed, but he isn't allowed 'bottom surgery' for medical reasons.

This is where it sort of complicates the issue. He's a man to look at, to meet him, to hear him speak, if he was seen entering a women's changing room he would probably be considered a pervert, I'd assume that many of the people who don't want men in female areas would not want him there because to look at him they would assume he's a man. However he has a vagina, and although not 'fully transitioned', he is a transsexual man. Under the rule of 'penises here and vaginas there', as simple as it might sound as a solution, it wouldn't leave someone like him with many other options other than to just stay at home, or be forced to show his vagina on entry to a women's private space should he need to use one.

I think its a bit different if people 'pass', as noone would even know.

I would personally feel much more comfortable changing infront of a transman, than a regular man, as a transman is female. But if they pass, they would fit in in the mens anyway. Transmen seem to pass more often than transwomen.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I think its a bit different if people 'pass', as noone would even know.

I would personally feel much more comfortable changing infront of a transman, than a regular man, as a transman is female. But if they pass, they would fit in in the mens anyway. Transmen seem to pass more often than transwomen.

Oh yeah, well it's certainly easy(ish) for him as things currently are (I mean not really easy in every situation but compared to the how I put it across in my post I mean). If it's about how people 'pass' rather than their biology though, does that not contradict the argument that people with penises should be in one area and people with vaginas should be in the other?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Oh yeah, well it's certainly easy(ish) for him as things currently are (I mean not really easy in every situation but compared to the how I put it across in my post I mean). If it's about how people 'pass' rather than their biology though, does that not contradict the argument that people with penises should be in one area and people with vaginas should be in the other?

Well yeah it does in a way. I would be happy with partially transitioned transmen in the ladies. Would be very happy keeping things penises+non penis. But I reckon they would prefer not to be in the womens, and if they pass, who cares?

I also think its a bit different when its transmen wanting into the mens. Women, on the whole are not a danger to men. Stats tell us that men are a danger to women. So a woman going in the mens is technically putting herself in danger, but not the people around her..her choice. A guy wanting into the ladies is a big problem for most of the women (I mean a regular guy, not a transsexual btw) Not sure if this is making sense, it does in my head

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yeah it does in a way. I would be happy with partially transitioned transmen in the ladies. Would be very happy keeping things penises+non penis. But I reckon they would prefer not to be in the womens, and if they pass, who cares?

I also think its a bit different when its transmen wanting into the mens. Women, on the whole are not a danger to men. Stats tell us that men are a danger to women. So a woman going in the mens is technically putting herself in danger, but not the people around her..her choice. A guy wanting into the ladies is a big problem for most of the women (I mean a regular guy, not a transsexual btw) Not sure if this is making sense, it does in my head

Perfect sense. Basically any man would be given access to female bathrooms and changing rooms with a few simple words - and anyone who cannot see the potential risk to women and girls is either a liar or completely refusing to acknowledge it due to an agenda.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yeah it does in a way. I would be happy with partially transitioned transmen in the ladies. Would be very happy keeping things penises+non penis. But I reckon they would prefer not to be in the womens, and if they pass, who cares?

I also think its a bit different when its transmen wanting into the mens. Women, on the whole are not a danger to men. Stats tell us that men are a danger to women. So a woman going in the mens is technically putting herself in danger, but not the people around her..her choice. A guy wanting into the ladies is a big problem for most of the women (I mean a regular guy, not a transsexual btw) Not sure if this is making sense, it does in my head

No it does make sense, and that first part, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to use the female areas (we don't actually talk a lot about these issues believe it or not but he does use the male facilities where he can - depending on the place, not everywhere has suitable facilities for people like him who pass as male but doesn't have a penis) I would imagine that having to use female facilities would exacerbate his dysphoria. But yeah I get what you mean with all of that from previous conversations, I suppose I'm just trying to highlight a nuance as I saw it as I don't think it's all that straight forward as was being suggested.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

No it does make sense, and that first part, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to use the female areas (we don't actually talk a lot about these issues believe it or not but he does use the male facilities where he can - depending on the place, not everywhere has suitable facilities for people like him who pass as male but doesn't have a penis) I would imagine that having to use female facilities would exacerbate his dysphoria. But yeah I get what you mean with all of that from previous conversations, I suppose I'm just trying to highlight a nuance as I saw it as I don't think it's all that straight forward as was being suggested.

Yeah its a complicated topic.

I think transmen have it easier too, as they do tend to pass better. On average they look smaller than men, but the testosterone seems to work very well and very fast.