[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Oh yeah, well it's certainly easy(ish) for him as things currently are (I mean not really easy in every situation but compared to the how I put it across in my post I mean). If it's about how people 'pass' rather than their biology though, does that not contradict the argument that people with penises should be in one area and people with vaginas should be in the other?

Well yeah it does in a way. I would be happy with partially transitioned transmen in the ladies. Would be very happy keeping things penises+non penis. But I reckon they would prefer not to be in the womens, and if they pass, who cares?

I also think its a bit different when its transmen wanting into the mens. Women, on the whole are not a danger to men. Stats tell us that men are a danger to women. So a woman going in the mens is technically putting herself in danger, but not the people around her..her choice. A guy wanting into the ladies is a big problem for most of the women (I mean a regular guy, not a transsexual btw) Not sure if this is making sense, it does in my head

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yeah it does in a way. I would be happy with partially transitioned transmen in the ladies. Would be very happy keeping things penises+non penis. But I reckon they would prefer not to be in the womens, and if they pass, who cares?

I also think its a bit different when its transmen wanting into the mens. Women, on the whole are not a danger to men. Stats tell us that men are a danger to women. So a woman going in the mens is technically putting herself in danger, but not the people around her..her choice. A guy wanting into the ladies is a big problem for most of the women (I mean a regular guy, not a transsexual btw) Not sure if this is making sense, it does in my head

Perfect sense. Basically any man would be given access to female bathrooms and changing rooms with a few simple words - and anyone who cannot see the potential risk to women and girls is either a liar or completely refusing to acknowledge it due to an agenda.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yeah it does in a way. I would be happy with partially transitioned transmen in the ladies. Would be very happy keeping things penises+non penis. But I reckon they would prefer not to be in the womens, and if they pass, who cares?

I also think its a bit different when its transmen wanting into the mens. Women, on the whole are not a danger to men. Stats tell us that men are a danger to women. So a woman going in the mens is technically putting herself in danger, but not the people around her..her choice. A guy wanting into the ladies is a big problem for most of the women (I mean a regular guy, not a transsexual btw) Not sure if this is making sense, it does in my head

No it does make sense, and that first part, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to use the female areas (we don't actually talk a lot about these issues believe it or not but he does use the male facilities where he can - depending on the place, not everywhere has suitable facilities for people like him who pass as male but doesn't have a penis) I would imagine that having to use female facilities would exacerbate his dysphoria. But yeah I get what you mean with all of that from previous conversations, I suppose I'm just trying to highlight a nuance as I saw it as I don't think it's all that straight forward as was being suggested.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

No it does make sense, and that first part, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to use the female areas (we don't actually talk a lot about these issues believe it or not but he does use the male facilities where he can - depending on the place, not everywhere has suitable facilities for people like him who pass as male but doesn't have a penis) I would imagine that having to use female facilities would exacerbate his dysphoria. But yeah I get what you mean with all of that from previous conversations, I suppose I'm just trying to highlight a nuance as I saw it as I don't think it's all that straight forward as was being suggested.

Yeah its a complicated topic.

I think transmen have it easier too, as they do tend to pass better. On average they look smaller than men, but the testosterone seems to work very well and very fast.