[Livia]

This all reminded me of this poem:

Let Me Die a Young Man's Death
By Roger McGough

Let me die a youngman's death
not a clean and inbetween
the sheets holywater death
not a famous-last-words
peaceful out of breath death

When I'm 73
and in constant good tumour
may I be mown down at dawn
by a bright red sports car
on my way home
from an allnight party

Or when I'm 91
with silver hair
and sitting in a barber's chair
may rival gangsters
with hamfisted tommyguns burst in
and give me a short back and insides

Or when I'm 104
and banned from the Cavern
may my mistress
catching me in bed with her daughter
and fearing for her son
cut me up into little pieces
and throw away every piece but one

Let me die a youngman's death
not a free from sin tiptoe in
candle wax and waning death
not a curtains drawn by angels borne
'what a nice way to go' death

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I have watched a few people die by assisted method and its all not too bad they just drink a small cup of the poison and fall asleep, as it were

You have? In real life like?

I was with my dog Curly when he was put to sleep and it's peaceful so if it's anything like that it's good.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You have? In real life like?

I was with my dog Curly when he was put to sleep and it's peaceful so if it's anything like that it's good.

no on the telly but yes with animals

when my big staffy got the injection he lay still for a bit and with his last spurt of energy he hauled himself up onto the lap of ex-mrs LT (we were all sat on the living room floor). It makes me sad even to type that

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You have? In real life like?

I was with my dog Curly when he was put to sleep and it's peaceful so if it's anything like that it's good.

it is sad but it's better that they have a peaceful death than long suffering and lots of pain (which is even more sad)

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How about a Robotic Bee flying directly into you brain through your ear?

I dunno, it would have to be really quick, otherwise the ear-burrowing sounds pretty painful

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

no on the telly but yes with animals

when my big staffy got the injection he lay still for a bit and with his last spurt of energy he hauled himself up onto the lap of ex-mrs LT (we were all sat on the living room floor). It makes me sad even to type that

Ugh I just got flashbacks to poor Curly dying now, actually the upsetting part is how he was the day he was put to sleep, he'd gone blind and was disorientated and scared

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Livia

So long as no one can be coerced or bullied into it, I'm totally for it.

If I get a diagnosis of dementia or any of those awful diseases that affect older people, I am going out like a ****ing rock star. You will find me full of cocaine, in a Rolls Royce at the bottom of a swimming pool with a big smile on my face.

I am going out on a whimper....injections at the ready.
But I love your plan of a rock and roll exit.

[Beso]

Cant a patient refuse medication to die sooner?

So why its not allowed is beyond me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

we do it for animals aside form humans so why not human animals too?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Cant a patient refuse medication to die sooner?

So why its not allowed is beyond me.

If something is terminal I reckon most of what they're taking is probably just for pain relief rather than prolonging a sickness

[Livia]

They let you die in hospital by withholding food and drink, so you die of hunger and dehydration. And what's more, the medical profession let people die all the time.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Livia

They let you die in hospital by withholding food and drink, so you die of hunger and dehydration. And what's more, the medical profession let people die all the time.

Yeah, im sure the dr helped my dad out at the end.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Yeah, im sure the dr helped my dad out at the end.

It's the right thing to do. I know their Hippocratic Oath doesn't permit them to kill actually people, but sometimes preserving life is the cruellest thing they could do. And their Oath would forbid them from performing abortions... but they still do.

[DemolitionRed]

Hospices are very tuned in to when a person has reached the final stages of life. One of the more umpleasant processes of dying is air hunger where a person gasps, sometimes frantically for air. Oxygen won't help if a person is going through the biological process of dying because organs are naturally shutting down. This is when they are normally given morphine. Its not to kill them, its to relax them and reduce air hunger. IMO, morphine during the final days is a dignified and relaxed way to die.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't think either has to be hugely problematic... you could attach some fairly strict criteria i.e. only months left to live anyway, proof that there's unmanageable pain or discomfort, and you could also have it so that both the person requesting it and the medical team surrounding that person have to sign off on it. I don't think the idea of it being significantly exploited in that situation is particularly realistic.

As for the value of life stuff... I dunno. I think people romanticize death. Too many peaceful bedside goodbyes in Hollywood movies with a single tear rolling down the cheeks of loved ones as an old, suspiciously rosy-cheeked person falls asleep with a little smile.

My grandmother died when I was 8 and was cared for in our house in her last months and it was awful. It was bed sores, vomit and confusion as her mind disappeared long before her body, and I have a memory seared in my brain of being able to hear her writhing and shrieking within her final half hour. It was an absolute ****ing horror show.

My mum died 4 years ago and yeah... it was worse. Her main cause of death was liver failure, but basically all of her organs shut down. Her limbs were purple and had swollen to 3x their normal size with oedema. Her immune system had shut down and a simple cold sore had eaten away half of her upper lip and there was dying flesh right round to her cheek. She was mostly unconscious - but would occasionally "gasp awake" for a few confused minutes with a look of real, and complete, terror on her face. She was hallucinating and delirious, but she also knew what was happening to her.

"Devalues life", indeed. I sometimes wonder if the people who are against these things actually realise what an undignified ****-show real death actually is. There is no value there. It's like a cruel joke tacked onto the end of a life. To deny people a way to avoid that out of the (irrational) fear that people are going to somehow use it to bump off their elderly relatives is just madness.

There's the issue... as a rule medical professionals sign up to save lives, they are not in the business of killing people.
I know it's hard I watched my own father get eaten away at by cancer in my mums living room over a period of 3 months in his late 60s.

What individuals do is up to them but a managed decline via pain relief is as dignified as is possible medically, we can't be passing the burden of assisted suicide/dying onto anyone else.

[Matthew.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

My mother, a few years ago actually asked me if, if she was very very ill and incapable of committing suicide, would I kill her

oh my god i can’t imagine ever actually doing it however this reminds me of a lady at work with, Jackie, telling me that her sister was paralysed after an accident (i think but i’m not too sure exactly what happened) and in the initial stages she asked her if she would help her die. Jackie told her no because she was her sister and her 2 daughters adored her. she died a month later

[AnnieK]

My mum once said to me that if she was ever that ill that she would never recover to help her end it. Thankfully when she did get very poorly, she didn't ask.

In some ways we were quite lucky (!?) with my mum. She was diagnosed with cancer and died within 4 weeks and I can say with some certainty that after her dianosis she was never in pain but she was very quickly not my mum either. Sitting by her bed at home firstly and then in a hospice was the darkest days of my life. She was asleep (unconscious?) most of the time. Her last day was awful with the gasping for breath but the hospice staff were amazing but I would have loved her not to have lost last days of suffering but to be honest, I don't think once she was diagnosed that they would have let her make the decision of assisted suicide as the cancer was in her brain so would have been deemed not mentally competent.

I am still in agreement though but with stringent rulings to prevent any exploitation or coercion

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

My mum once said to me that if she was ever that ill that she would never recover to help her end it. Thankfully when she did get very poorly, she didn't ask.

In some ways we were quite lucky (!?) with my mum. She was diagnosed with cancer and died within 4 weeks and I can say with some certainty that after her dianosis she was never in pain but she was very quickly not my mum either. Sitting by her bed at home firstly and then in a hospice was the darkest days of my life. She was asleep (unconscious?) most of the time. Her last day was awful with the gasping for breath but the hospice staff were amazing but I would have loved her not to have lost last days of suffering but to be honest, I don't think once she was diagnosed that they would have let her make the decision of assisted suicide as the cancer was in her brain so would have been deemed not mentally competent.

I am still in agreement though but with stringent rulings to prevent any exploitation or coercion

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There's the issue... as a rule medical professionals sign up to save lives, they are not in the business of killing people.
I know it's hard I watched my own father get eaten away at by cancer in my mums living room over a period of 3 months in his late 60s.

What individuals do is up to them but a managed decline via pain relief is as dignified as is possible medically, we can't be passing the burden of assisted suicide/dying onto anyone else.

Do they? Many do, sure, but I'd say that amore accurate role of a medical professional is to help people live as comfortably as possible for as long as possible... it's about quality of life, not "living as long as possible". The "rule" is to do no harm, but there's certainly scope for debate over whether or not it's more harmful to help someone to die quickly and painlessly, or to have them endure high levels of suffering for weeks or months only to die anyway.

It doesn't need to be a case of forcing or passing the buck either; it would be fairly simple to allow medical professionals to opt in / out of being involved in euthanasia. I believe that there have been studies showing that 50% or more of doctors are in favour of euthanasia in extreme / end-of-life circumstances.

[Crimson Dynamo]

When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep.


Not screaming and praying like all the passengers in his airplane







well someone had to

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep.


Not screaming and praying like all the passengers in his airplane







well someone had to

[Kizzy]

'So does the thought of being an intolerable burden to their family. But campaigners scrupulously avoid talking about the wider social landscape, the rocketing numbers of those with dementia outliving their brains at vast personal and social cost.'

This is the portion I don't agree with the part where you are meant in your dotage to feel you are social slurry...
This I feel is in alignment with a eugenics ethic, you are no longer useful, you should therefore feel it is acceptable to cease to exist.

If you want this do it, it is quite rightly a huge social taboo and it's a cop out to suggest it's only the religious who are ethically opposed.

I would be interested to see the medical professionals opinions in support of euthanasia, not the BMA actual practicing doctors.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...imers-guernsey

[smudgie]

Dying with dignity.
Well, if vomiting and choking on your own $hit is dignified, not being able to lie down in bed to sleep and not being able to eat or even drink without it coming straight back up is dignified, you can keep it.
My sister died a terrible death last June, my sister-in-law has been in the hospice this past 15 days, both no hope and terminal, the choice should have been there for them both.
Perhaps neither of them would take that choice, but the option should be open to us all.