[Maru]

So if the people voted in the UK to leave the EU, it's the people's fault(?) for voting the wrong way because the politicians won't do the job they've signed on to do?... No, that's not how it works at all... Don't post in SD. Call your rep. It's no-one elses business how you've decided to vote, much less why... if they have a problem with it, let them pound sand. When the politicians are fail to do their job, hold them accountable.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Maru

So if the people voted in the UK to leave the EU, it's the people's fault(?) for voting the wrong way because the politicians won't do the job they've signed on to do?... No, that's not how it works at all... Don't post in SD. Call your rep. It's no-one elses business how you've decided to vote, much less why... if they have a problem with it, let them pound sand. When the politicians are fail to do their job, hold them accountable.

Your job is to land this plane

I dont know how to land the plane

Sorry the passengers of this plane all voted, you must land the plane

I still dont know how

It is the will of the people

Im probably going to fail

NOT GOOD ENOUGH

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Withano

Your job is to land this plane

I dont know how to land the plane

Sorry the passengers of this plane all voted, you must land the plane

I still dont know how

It is the will of the people

Im probably going to fail

NOT GOOD ENOUGH

More like

"Land the plane..."

"It doesn't have wheels! We need to parachute out!"

"Land it..."

"It only has one wing! And no engines!"

"LAND THE DAMN PLANE"

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

More like

"Land the plane..."

"It doesn't have wheels! We need to parachute out!"

"Land it..."

"It only has one wing! And no engines!"

"LAND THE DAMN PLANE"

And you once lectured me on hyperbole.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

And you once lectured me on hyperbole.

"Land the damn spaceship!"

"She cannae take any more, captain!"

"Land goddamn it and phasers set to kill!"

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"Land the damn spaceship!"

"She cannae take any more, captain!"

"Land goddamn it and phasers set to kill!"

"Beam me fecking up Scotty T.S has flipped". Lol you nutter.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Maru

So if the people voted in the UK to leave the EU, it's the people's fault(?) for voting the wrong way because the politicians won't do the job they've signed on to do?... No, that's not how it works at all... Don't post in SD. Call your rep. It's no-one elses business how you've decided to vote, much less why... if they have a problem with it, let them pound sand. When the politicians are fail to do their job, hold them accountable.

We had the choice of whether to stay or go, we had the choice of who runs the show and we still voted to keep an incompetent government in place despite knowing how terrible they were. Of course it's the people's fault if they are unhappy with how things go because THEY are the ones who decided to leave, they are the ones who decided which party should handle Brexit.

The bit about 'contacting your rep' is all well and good but it's not realistic. The Tories are running things and they'll be running things for years until the next election at least, they don't give a **** what people think because the election is way off. It doesn't matter if people are happy with Brexit or not, the referendum was to decide whether to leave or not, not HOW we should leave. The only control we had over that was deciding which government should handle it and people chose a terrible party to do it.

Voters only have themselves to blame.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

We had the choice of whether to stay or go, we had the choice of who runs the show and we still voted to keep an incompetent government in place despite knowing how terrible they were. Of course it's the people's fault if they are unhappy with how things go because THEY are the ones who decided to leave, they are the ones who decided which party should handle Brexit.

The bit about 'contacting your rep' is all well and good but it's not realistic. The Tories are running things and they'll be running things for years until the next election at least, they don't give a **** what people think because the election is way off. It doesn't matter if people are happy with Brexit or not, the referendum was to decide whether to leave or not, not HOW we should leave. The only control we had over that was deciding which government should handle it and people chose a terrible party to do it.

Voters only have themselves to blame.

Blame for what exactly - do you have a crystal ball? Even the experts cannot agree on the outcome so how you profess to know is quite extraordinary!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Blame for what exactly - do you have a crystal ball? Even the experts cannot agree on the outcome so how you profess to know is quite extraordinary!

I trust what's been said by a wide variety of experts on all sides, not just the ones I cherry pick to suit my opinion.

Very few experts have anything good to say when it comes to Brexit.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I trust what's been said by a wide variety of experts on all sides, not just the ones I cherry pick to suit my opinion.

Very few experts have anything good to say when it comes to Brexit.

Rubbish. There are plenty. And you talk of cherry-picking!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

We had the choice of whether to stay or go, we had the choice of who runs the show and we still voted to keep an incompetent government in place despite knowing how terrible they were. Of course it's the people's fault if they are unhappy with how things go because THEY are the ones who decided to leave, they are the ones who decided which party should handle Brexit.

The bit about 'contacting your rep' is all well and good but it's not realistic. The Tories are running things and they'll be running things for years until the next election at least, they don't give a **** what people think because the election is way off. It doesn't matter if people are happy with Brexit or not, the referendum was to decide whether to leave or not, not HOW we should leave. The only control we had over that was deciding which government should handle it and people chose a terrible party to do it.

Voters only have themselves to blame.

With Corbyn and Abbott in opposition, the Tories will be 'running things' well into the 3rd Millenium.

As to 'Blame', I echo what Brillopad says - No One KNOWS for certain whether Brexit will be a positive or Negative for the UK.

I believe that if events were ALLOWED to take place WITHOUT the covert and sinister machinations and interference of the 'Illuminati' (for want of a better word) who WANT us to remain in the EU, then Brexit WILL only be beneficial for the UK.

That 'IF'is the key though because Brexiteers are up against a very powerful, very wealthy, very well organised, very well connected enemy who are aided indirectly by covert factions within the Labour Party who share the same 'Remain' objective though for different reasons.

Finally as poor as the Tories are proving to be - there is NO viable alternative because if Corbyn gets into power, all the complaints about the Tories will seem oh so petty.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

With Corbyn and Abbott in opposition, the Tories will be 'running things' well into the 3rd Millenium.

As to 'Blame', I echo what Brillopad says - No One KNOWS for certain whether Brexit will be a positive or Negative for the UK.

I believe that if events were ALLOWED to take place WITHOUT the covert and sinister machinations and interference of the 'Illuminati' (for want of a better word) who WANT us to remain in the EU, then Brexit WILL only be beneficial for the UK.

That 'IF'is the key though because Brexiteers are up against a very powerful, very wealthy, very well organised, very well connected enemy who are aided indirectly by covert factions within the Labour Party who share the same 'Remain' objective though for different reasons.

Finally as poor as the Tories are proving to be - there is NO viable alternative because if Corbyn gets into power, all the complaints about the Tories will seem oh so petty.

It's going to have a negative impact and placing blame on an imaginary Illuminati is not going to change that (that line honestly feels like you preparing an excuse for when Brexit leaves us in a worse position then we were in) nor will blaming people who simply haven't gotten on board with it. Good intentions and pretending everything is fine won't stave off the inevitable and not liking how things are won't speed it up either.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's going to have a negative impact and placing blame on an imaginary Illuminati is not going to change that (that line honestly feels like you preparing an excuse for when Brexit leaves us in a worse position then we were in) nor will blaming people who simply haven't gotten on board with it. Good intentions and pretending everything is fine won't stave off the inevitable and not liking how things are won't speed it up either.

Oh dear. You write with such AUTHORITY on the EU and Brexit, Dezzy, but in reality, WHAT you write shows an alarming LACK of any REAL knowledge of both - In my opinion.

"It's going to have a negative impact..."

Are you now TIBB's own Psychic, Dezzy? Tibb’s very own Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce?

You speak so DEFINITIVELY of future events that you MUST think that you are. No one KNOWS the future and cloaking your PERSONAL opinion as fact lends it no more legitimacy than any other person's opinion.

"...and placing blame on an imaginary Illuminati is not going to change that (that line honestly feels like you preparing an excuse for when Brexit leaves us in a worse position then we were in) "


This is bordering on dishonesty and mockery.

I clearly qualified my use of the word 'Illuminati' by stating "for want of a better word".

It was a ‘convenience’, an ‘Umbrella’ term for the purpose of BREVITY, to save me having to write lists of the actual Super-Wealthy and Super-Powerful factions who do MOST CERTAINLY have deeply vested interests in ensuring that the UK Remains in the EU, and NONE of these ‘vested interests’ includes the well-being of the ‘Working Classes’ or ‘Poor’, or indeed anyone OUTSIDE of THEIR own ranks and aims.

I have no intention of writing 100 pages to defend myself against your mocking retort – and that number of pages would scarcely be sufficient anyway to FULLY expound why I am right and your response is wrong – but briefly:

The Rich and Powerful & EU Vested Interests Part One:

The House of Lords, EU Pensioners & Traitor Blair

The Lords is heavily riddled with Pro-EU traitors to this country - 374 of whom were STRATEGICALLY placed there by Pro-EU arch-Traitor Tony Blair during 1997 to 2007.

The first of the Lord’s two recent defeats of the Government’s Article 50 Bill was ORGANISED by Blair and his ‘Pet-Peer’ Lord Adonis abetted by Peers who were former EU Commissioners.

The EU pays over £500,00 in PENSIONS per year to former EU Officials who now sit in the Lords and this includes seven ex-EU Commissioners such as Blair’s bedfellow ‘Mr IFFY’ Peter Mandelson.

EU officials have to swear a permanent ‘Oath of Allegiance’ to Brussels and their Golden Pensions and other Lifetime ‘Bonuses’ can be withdrawn if those ex- Officials ever fail to ‘ACT IN THE EU’s INTERESTS’, but ‘Lo and Behold’ unlike ANY other situations where Peers may have a ‘Conflict of Interest’ when voting, it has been decreed that these EU Loyalists do NOT have to declare their EU Incomes or any 'Conflict of Interest' when voting.

Incidentally, these Peers 'Golden Pensions' is BRITISH TAX-PAYERS MONEY despite it being paid out by Brussels.

And just LOOK at some of the RATS who have vested in interests in scuppering Brexit and keeping the UK in the EU – whether OFFICIALLY or otherwise by rendering Brexit so ineffective that the ‘status quo’ changes in NAME only.

Lord Kinnock – ex-vice-president of the Commission

(The 'Welsh Windbag' a former British Labour Prime Minister receives a £87,000-a-year EU pension. Not bad UNEARNED income when a HUGE portion of the working classes he represented struggle by on around £15,000 per year for WORKING.)

Lord Patten - ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Tugendhat – ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Mandelson i- ex EU Commissioner.
Baroness Ashton.
Lord Clinton-Davis.
Lord Tugendhat
Lord Richard.
Etc. Etc.

HOW can these RATS SERVE TWO MASTERS?

They CANNOT, and their FIRST allegiance is NOT to the Best Interests of the UK and its people, it is to their Brussels Paymasters and PROTECTING their FAT, TAX-FREE Golden EU LIFETIME Payouts - not forgetting their many EU-based, very lucrative BUSINESS interests which will become endangered and much less lucrative should the UK REALLY Brexit.

The 'Illuminati' may well be a fiction but the above RICH and POWERFUL are REAL and they DO HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN SCUPPERING BREXIT.

They are also in a STRATEGIC position to do so, and ARE doing just that.

Next - George Soros, The Open Society Foundation, & Gina Miller

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Oh dear. You write with such AUTHORITY on the EU and Brexit, Dezzy, but in reality, WHAT you write shows an alarming LACK of any REAL knowledge of both - In my opinion.

"It's going to have a negative impact..."

Are you now TIBB's own Psychic, Dezzy? Tibb’s very own Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce?

You speak so DEFINITIVELY of future events that you MUST think that you are. No one KNOWS the future and cloaking your PERSONAL opinion as fact lends it no more legitimacy than any other person's opinion.

"...and placing blame on an imaginary Illuminati is not going to change that (that line honestly feels like you preparing an excuse for when Brexit leaves us in a worse position then we were in) "


This is bordering on dishonesty and mockery.

I clearly qualified my use of the word 'Illuminati' by stating "for want of a better word".

It was a ‘convenience’, an ‘Umbrella’ term for the purpose of BREVITY, to save me having to write lists of the actual Super-Wealthy and Super-Powerful factions who do MOST CERTAINLY have deeply vested interests in ensuring that the UK Remains in the EU, and NONE of these ‘vested interests’ includes the well-being of the ‘Working Classes’ or ‘Poor’, or indeed anyone OUTSIDE of THEIR own ranks and aims.

I have no intention of writing 100 pages to defend myself against your mocking retort – and that number of pages would scarcely be sufficient anyway to FULLY expound why I am right and your response is wrong – but briefly:

The Rich and Powerful & EU Vested Interests Part One:

The House of Lords, EU Pensioners & Traitor Blair

The Lords is heavily riddled with Pro-EU traitors to this country - 374 of whom were STRATEGICALLY placed there by Pro-EU arch-Traitor Tony Blair during 1997 to 2007.

The first of the Lord’s two recent defeats of the Government’s Article 50 Bill was ORGANISED by Blair and his ‘Pet-Peer’ Lord Adonis abetted by Peers who were former EU Commissioners.

The EU pays over £500,00 in PENSIONS per year to former EU Officials who now sit in the Lords and this includes seven ex-EU Commissioners such as Blair’s bedfellow ‘Mr IFFY’ Peter Mandelson.

EU officials have to swear a permanent ‘Oath of Allegiance’ to Brussels and their Golden Pensions and other Lifetime ‘Bonuses’ can be withdrawn if those ex- Officials ever fail to ‘ACT IN THE EU’s INTERESTS’, but ‘Lo and Behold’ unlike ANY other situations where Peers may have a ‘Conflict of Interest’ when voting, it has been decreed that these EU Loyalists do NOT have to declare their EU Incomes or any 'Conflict of Interest' when voting.

Incidentally, these Peers 'Golden Pensions' is BRITISH TAX-PAYERS MONEY despite it being paid out by Brussels.

And just LOOK at some of the RATS who have vested in interests in scuppering Brexit and keeping the UK in the EU – whether OFFICIALLY or otherwise by rendering Brexit so ineffective that the ‘status quo’ changes in NAME only.

Lord Kinnock – ex-vice-president of the Commission

(The 'Welsh Windbag' a former British Labour Prime Minister receives a £87,000-a-year EU pension. Not bad UNEARNED income when a HUGE portion of the working classes he represented struggle by on around £15,000 per year for WORKING.)

Lord Patten - ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Tugendhat – ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Mandelson i- ex EU Commissioner.
Baroness Ashton.
Lord Clinton-Davis.
Lord Tugendhat
Lord Richard.
Etc. Etc.

HOW can these RATS SERVE TWO MASTERS?

They CANNOT, and their FIRST allegiance is NOT to the Best Interests of the UK and its people, it is to their Brussels Paymasters and PROTECTING their FAT, TAX-FREE Golden EU LIFETIME Payouts - not forgetting their many EU-based, very lucrative BUSINESS interests which will become endangered and much less lucrative should the UK REALLY Brexit.

The 'Illuminati' may well be a fiction but the above RICH and POWERFUL are REAL and they DO HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN SCUPPERING BREXIT.

They are also in a STRATEGIC position to do so, and ARE doing just that.

Next - George Soros, The Open Society Foundation, & Gina Miller

Another detailed and very informative post Kirk! Well said!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Oh dear. You write with such AUTHORITY on the EU and Brexit, Dezzy, but in reality, WHAT you write shows an alarming LACK of any REAL knowledge of both - In my opinion.

"It's going to have a negative impact..."

Are you now TIBB's own Psychic, Dezzy? Tibb’s very own Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce?

You speak so DEFINITIVELY of future events that you MUST think that you are. No one KNOWS the future and cloaking your PERSONAL opinion as fact lends it no more legitimacy than any other person's opinion.

"...and placing blame on an imaginary Illuminati is not going to change that (that line honestly feels like you preparing an excuse for when Brexit leaves us in a worse position then we were in) "


This is bordering on dishonesty and mockery.

I clearly qualified my use of the word 'Illuminati' by stating "for want of a better word".

It was a ‘convenience’, an ‘Umbrella’ term for the purpose of BREVITY, to save me having to write lists of the actual Super-Wealthy and Super-Powerful factions who do MOST CERTAINLY have deeply vested interests in ensuring that the UK Remains in the EU, and NONE of these ‘vested interests’ includes the well-being of the ‘Working Classes’ or ‘Poor’, or indeed anyone OUTSIDE of THEIR own ranks and aims.

I have no intention of writing 100 pages to defend myself against your mocking retort – and that number of pages would scarcely be sufficient anyway to FULLY expound why I am right and your response is wrong – but briefly:

The Rich and Powerful & EU Vested Interests Part One:

The House of Lords, EU Pensioners & Traitor Blair

The Lords is heavily riddled with Pro-EU traitors to this country - 374 of whom were STRATEGICALLY placed there by Pro-EU arch-Traitor Tony Blair during 1997 to 2007.

The first of the Lord’s two recent defeats of the Government’s Article 50 Bill was ORGANISED by Blair and his ‘Pet-Peer’ Lord Adonis abetted by Peers who were former EU Commissioners.

The EU pays over £500,00 in PENSIONS per year to former EU Officials who now sit in the Lords and this includes seven ex-EU Commissioners such as Blair’s bedfellow ‘Mr IFFY’ Peter Mandelson.

EU officials have to swear a permanent ‘Oath of Allegiance’ to Brussels and their Golden Pensions and other Lifetime ‘Bonuses’ can be withdrawn if those ex- Officials ever fail to ‘ACT IN THE EU’s INTERESTS’, but ‘Lo and Behold’ unlike ANY other situations where Peers may have a ‘Conflict of Interest’ when voting, it has been decreed that these EU Loyalists do NOT have to declare their EU Incomes or any 'Conflict of Interest' when voting.

Incidentally, these Peers 'Golden Pensions' is BRITISH TAX-PAYERS MONEY despite it being paid out by Brussels.

And just LOOK at some of the RATS who have vested in interests in scuppering Brexit and keeping the UK in the EU – whether OFFICIALLY or otherwise by rendering Brexit so ineffective that the ‘status quo’ changes in NAME only.

Lord Kinnock – ex-vice-president of the Commission

(The 'Welsh Windbag' a former British Labour Prime Minister receives a £87,000-a-year EU pension. Not bad UNEARNED income when a HUGE portion of the working classes he represented struggle by on around £15,000 per year for WORKING.)

Lord Patten - ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Tugendhat – ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Mandelson i- ex EU Commissioner.
Baroness Ashton.
Lord Clinton-Davis.
Lord Tugendhat
Lord Richard.
Etc. Etc.

HOW can these RATS SERVE TWO MASTERS?

They CANNOT, and their FIRST allegiance is NOT to the Best Interests of the UK and its people, it is to their Brussels Paymasters and PROTECTING their FAT, TAX-FREE Golden EU LIFETIME Payouts - not forgetting their many EU-based, very lucrative BUSINESS interests which will become endangered and much less lucrative should the UK REALLY Brexit.

The 'Illuminati' may well be a fiction but the above RICH and POWERFUL are REAL and they DO HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN SCUPPERING BREXIT.

They are also in a STRATEGIC position to do so, and ARE doing just that.

Next - George Soros, The Open Society Foundation, & Gina Miller

If I said anything like that, I'd get thinly veiled attack threads demanding my head.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

If I said anything like that, I'd get thinly veiled attack threads demanding my head.

I'm sorry Dezzy but I do not understand why you have a problem with ANY of my post.

I am not insulting or being personal but merely stating my opinion based on my perception of your posts and I even stated; "In my opinion".

Your posts on Brexit are not only ALWAYS arrogantly dismissive of the viewpoints of any other member where those viewpoints do not align with your own but also dismissive of any facts such members may state in order to support their viewpoint.

You are NOT an authority on Brexit or the EU Dezzy and have no monopoly on what is true or factual ONLY an opinion based on the same information which is out there which anyone can access.

I do not know your age but I would guess that you have not even the benefit of Direct Experience gained by having lived in the UK BEFORE that moralless deceitful liar Ted Heath conned us into the 'Common Market' which became the EU.

In your response to the post of Brillopad, you said:

"Of course it's my opinion, when did I say differently? I'm perfectly entitled to it"

Well, I am similarly entitled.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Oh dear. You write with such AUTHORITY on the EU and Brexit, Dezzy, but in reality, WHAT you write shows an alarming LACK of any REAL knowledge of both - In my opinion.

"It's going to have a negative impact..."

Are you now TIBB's own Psychic, Dezzy? Tibb’s very own Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce?

You speak so DEFINITIVELY of future events that you MUST think that you are. No one KNOWS the future and cloaking your PERSONAL opinion as fact lends it no more legitimacy than any other person's opinion.

"...and placing blame on an imaginary Illuminati is not going to change that (that line honestly feels like you preparing an excuse for when Brexit leaves us in a worse position then we were in) "


This is bordering on dishonesty and mockery.

I clearly qualified my use of the word 'Illuminati' by stating "for want of a better word".

It was a ‘convenience’, an ‘Umbrella’ term for the purpose of BREVITY, to save me having to write lists of the actual Super-Wealthy and Super-Powerful factions who do MOST CERTAINLY have deeply vested interests in ensuring that the UK Remains in the EU, and NONE of these ‘vested interests’ includes the well-being of the ‘Working Classes’ or ‘Poor’, or indeed anyone OUTSIDE of THEIR own ranks and aims.

I have no intention of writing 100 pages to defend myself against your mocking retort – and that number of pages would scarcely be sufficient anyway to FULLY expound why I am right and your response is wrong – but briefly:

The Rich and Powerful & EU Vested Interests Part One:

The House of Lords, EU Pensioners & Traitor Blair

The Lords is heavily riddled with Pro-EU traitors to this country - 374 of whom were STRATEGICALLY placed there by Pro-EU arch-Traitor Tony Blair during 1997 to 2007.

The first of the Lord’s two recent defeats of the Government’s Article 50 Bill was ORGANISED by Blair and his ‘Pet-Peer’ Lord Adonis abetted by Peers who were former EU Commissioners.

The EU pays over £500,00 in PENSIONS per year to former EU Officials who now sit in the Lords and this includes seven ex-EU Commissioners such as Blair’s bedfellow ‘Mr IFFY’ Peter Mandelson.

EU officials have to swear a permanent ‘Oath of Allegiance’ to Brussels and their Golden Pensions and other Lifetime ‘Bonuses’ can be withdrawn if those ex- Officials ever fail to ‘ACT IN THE EU’s INTERESTS’, but ‘Lo and Behold’ unlike ANY other situations where Peers may have a ‘Conflict of Interest’ when voting, it has been decreed that these EU Loyalists do NOT have to declare their EU Incomes or any 'Conflict of Interest' when voting.

Incidentally, these Peers 'Golden Pensions' is BRITISH TAX-PAYERS MONEY despite it being paid out by Brussels.

And just LOOK at some of the RATS who have vested in interests in scuppering Brexit and keeping the UK in the EU – whether OFFICIALLY or otherwise by rendering Brexit so ineffective that the ‘status quo’ changes in NAME only.

Lord Kinnock – ex-vice-president of the Commission

(The 'Welsh Windbag' a former British Labour Prime Minister receives a £87,000-a-year EU pension. Not bad UNEARNED income when a HUGE portion of the working classes he represented struggle by on around £15,000 per year for WORKING.)

Lord Patten - ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Tugendhat – ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Mandelson i- ex EU Commissioner.
Baroness Ashton.
Lord Clinton-Davis.
Lord Tugendhat
Lord Richard.
Etc. Etc.

HOW can these RATS SERVE TWO MASTERS?

They CANNOT, and their FIRST allegiance is NOT to the Best Interests of the UK and its people, it is to their Brussels Paymasters and PROTECTING their FAT, TAX-FREE Golden EU LIFETIME Payouts - not forgetting their many EU-based, very lucrative BUSINESS interests which will become endangered and much less lucrative should the UK REALLY Brexit.

The 'Illuminati' may well be a fiction but the above RICH and POWERFUL are REAL and they DO HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN SCUPPERING BREXIT.

They are also in a STRATEGIC position to do so, and ARE doing just that.

Next - George Soros, The Open Society Foundation, & Gina Miller

And on the other side press barons like Murdoch, Rothermere and the Barclay brothers (and people they sponsor/employ). All with cosy tax arrangements or not living in this country at all.
At least the people you quoted have thrown their lot with the country, unlike for example Dyson who moved his production to Malaysia.
Sorry, Kirk, but if Putin and Trump both think Brexit is a good thing, alarm bells should ring even in Brexiters ears.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

And on the other side press barons like Murdoch, Rothermere and the Barclay brothers (and people they sponsor/employ). All with cosy tax arrangements or not living in this country at all.
At least the people you quoted have thrown their lot with the country, unlike for example Dyson who moved his production to Malaysia.
Sorry, Kirk, but if Putin and Trump both think Brexit is a good thing, alarm bells should ring even in Brexiters ears.

Sorry Twosugars, but Murdoch, Rothmere, the Barclay Brothers and Dyson do NOT receive Tax-Payers hard earned money at a rate of £300 per day (as much as a lot of hardworking people earn in a full week) nor do they sit in the House of Lords, and nor do they hold any direct power to thwart the legitimate decisions of a Democratically elected Government for their own individual AND collective purposes.

And 'thrown their lot in with the country' is just what they have NOT done, which is the whole essence of my post - they are LOYAL to their EU Paymasters NOT the UK populace or Government.

As for Trump and Putin, perhaps they regard Brexit as a good idea because it may well suit THEIR objectives, but the fact that have expressed such a view does not ring any alarm bells with me - not like the alarm bells which are triggered EVERY time Corbyn or Abbot open their Marxist mouths.

[bots]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Oh dear. You write with such AUTHORITY on the EU and Brexit, Dezzy, but in reality, WHAT you write shows an alarming LACK of any REAL knowledge of both - In my opinion.

"It's going to have a negative impact..."

Are you now TIBB's own Psychic, Dezzy? Tibb’s very own Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce?

You speak so DEFINITIVELY of future events that you MUST think that you are. No one KNOWS the future and cloaking your PERSONAL opinion as fact lends it no more legitimacy than any other person's opinion.

"...and placing blame on an imaginary Illuminati is not going to change that (that line honestly feels like you preparing an excuse for when Brexit leaves us in a worse position then we were in) "


This is bordering on dishonesty and mockery.

I clearly qualified my use of the word 'Illuminati' by stating "for want of a better word".

It was a ‘convenience’, an ‘Umbrella’ term for the purpose of BREVITY, to save me having to write lists of the actual Super-Wealthy and Super-Powerful factions who do MOST CERTAINLY have deeply vested interests in ensuring that the UK Remains in the EU, and NONE of these ‘vested interests’ includes the well-being of the ‘Working Classes’ or ‘Poor’, or indeed anyone OUTSIDE of THEIR own ranks and aims.

I have no intention of writing 100 pages to defend myself against your mocking retort – and that number of pages would scarcely be sufficient anyway to FULLY expound why I am right and your response is wrong – but briefly:

The Rich and Powerful & EU Vested Interests Part One:

The House of Lords, EU Pensioners & Traitor Blair

The Lords is heavily riddled with Pro-EU traitors to this country - 374 of whom were STRATEGICALLY placed there by Pro-EU arch-Traitor Tony Blair during 1997 to 2007.

The first of the Lord’s two recent defeats of the Government’s Article 50 Bill was ORGANISED by Blair and his ‘Pet-Peer’ Lord Adonis abetted by Peers who were former EU Commissioners.

The EU pays over £500,00 in PENSIONS per year to former EU Officials who now sit in the Lords and this includes seven ex-EU Commissioners such as Blair’s bedfellow ‘Mr IFFY’ Peter Mandelson.

EU officials have to swear a permanent ‘Oath of Allegiance’ to Brussels and their Golden Pensions and other Lifetime ‘Bonuses’ can be withdrawn if those ex- Officials ever fail to ‘ACT IN THE EU’s INTERESTS’, but ‘Lo and Behold’ unlike ANY other situations where Peers may have a ‘Conflict of Interest’ when voting, it has been decreed that these EU Loyalists do NOT have to declare their EU Incomes or any 'Conflict of Interest' when voting.

Incidentally, these Peers 'Golden Pensions' is BRITISH TAX-PAYERS MONEY despite it being paid out by Brussels.

And just LOOK at some of the RATS who have vested in interests in scuppering Brexit and keeping the UK in the EU – whether OFFICIALLY or otherwise by rendering Brexit so ineffective that the ‘status quo’ changes in NAME only.

Lord Kinnock – ex-vice-president of the Commission

(The 'Welsh Windbag' a former British Labour Prime Minister receives a £87,000-a-year EU pension. Not bad UNEARNED income when a HUGE portion of the working classes he represented struggle by on around £15,000 per year for WORKING.)

Lord Patten - ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Tugendhat – ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Mandelson i- ex EU Commissioner.
Baroness Ashton.
Lord Clinton-Davis.
Lord Tugendhat
Lord Richard.
Etc. Etc.

HOW can these RATS SERVE TWO MASTERS?

They CANNOT, and their FIRST allegiance is NOT to the Best Interests of the UK and its people, it is to their Brussels Paymasters and PROTECTING their FAT, TAX-FREE Golden EU LIFETIME Payouts - not forgetting their many EU-based, very lucrative BUSINESS interests which will become endangered and much less lucrative should the UK REALLY Brexit.

The 'Illuminati' may well be a fiction but the above RICH and POWERFUL are REAL and they DO HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN SCUPPERING BREXIT.

They are also in a STRATEGIC position to do so, and ARE doing just that.

Next - George Soros, The Open Society Foundation, & Gina Miller

and just to highlight your point, in todays news:

Brexit: Jeremy Corbyn must change stance, says Lord Kinnock

Jeremy Corbyn will commit "a serious evasion of duty" if he does not change his stance on Brexit, former Labour leader Lord Kinnock has said.

The peer told the Independent that Labour should endorse the UK staying in the European Economic Area (EEA) or risk "sacrificing thousands" of jobs.

Staying in the EEA would mean the UK retained key aspects of the single market after leaving the EU.

But Mr Corbyn has opposed this idea as the UK would not make the rules.

Lord Kinnock was one of the 83 Labour peers who defied the party leadership this week and voted for an amendment to the EU Withdrawal Bill in the House of Lords to keep the UK in the EEA.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44092538

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Oh dear. You write with such AUTHORITY on the EU and Brexit, Dezzy, but in reality, WHAT you write shows an alarming LACK of any REAL knowledge of both - In my opinion.

"It's going to have a negative impact..."

Are you now TIBB's own Psychic, Dezzy? Tibb’s very own Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce?

You speak so DEFINITIVELY of future events that you MUST think that you are. No one KNOWS the future and cloaking your PERSONAL opinion as fact lends it no more legitimacy than any other person's opinion.

"...and placing blame on an imaginary Illuminati is not going to change that (that line honestly feels like you preparing an excuse for when Brexit leaves us in a worse position then we were in) "


This is bordering on dishonesty and mockery.

I clearly qualified my use of the word 'Illuminati' by stating "for want of a better word".

It was a ‘convenience’, an ‘Umbrella’ term for the purpose of BREVITY, to save me having to write lists of the actual Super-Wealthy and Super-Powerful factions who do MOST CERTAINLY have deeply vested interests in ensuring that the UK Remains in the EU, and NONE of these ‘vested interests’ includes the well-being of the ‘Working Classes’ or ‘Poor’, or indeed anyone OUTSIDE of THEIR own ranks and aims.

I have no intention of writing 100 pages to defend myself against your mocking retort – and that number of pages would scarcely be sufficient anyway to FULLY expound why I am right and your response is wrong – but briefly:

The Rich and Powerful & EU Vested Interests Part One:

The House of Lords, EU Pensioners & Traitor Blair

The Lords is heavily riddled with Pro-EU traitors to this country - 374 of whom were STRATEGICALLY placed there by Pro-EU arch-Traitor Tony Blair during 1997 to 2007.

The first of the Lord’s two recent defeats of the Government’s Article 50 Bill was ORGANISED by Blair and his ‘Pet-Peer’ Lord Adonis abetted by Peers who were former EU Commissioners.

The EU pays over £500,00 in PENSIONS per year to former EU Officials who now sit in the Lords and this includes seven ex-EU Commissioners such as Blair’s bedfellow ‘Mr IFFY’ Peter Mandelson.

EU officials have to swear a permanent ‘Oath of Allegiance’ to Brussels and their Golden Pensions and other Lifetime ‘Bonuses’ can be withdrawn if those ex- Officials ever fail to ‘ACT IN THE EU’s INTERESTS’, but ‘Lo and Behold’ unlike ANY other situations where Peers may have a ‘Conflict of Interest’ when voting, it has been decreed that these EU Loyalists do NOT have to declare their EU Incomes or any 'Conflict of Interest' when voting.

Incidentally, these Peers 'Golden Pensions' is BRITISH TAX-PAYERS MONEY despite it being paid out by Brussels.

And just LOOK at some of the RATS who have vested in interests in scuppering Brexit and keeping the UK in the EU – whether OFFICIALLY or otherwise by rendering Brexit so ineffective that the ‘status quo’ changes in NAME only.

Lord Kinnock – ex-vice-president of the Commission

(The 'Welsh Windbag' a former British Labour Prime Minister receives a £87,000-a-year EU pension. Not bad UNEARNED income when a HUGE portion of the working classes he represented struggle by on around £15,000 per year for WORKING.)

Lord Patten - ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Tugendhat – ex-EU Commissioner.
Lord Mandelson i- ex EU Commissioner.
Baroness Ashton.
Lord Clinton-Davis.
Lord Tugendhat
Lord Richard.
Etc. Etc.

HOW can these RATS SERVE TWO MASTERS?

They CANNOT, and their FIRST allegiance is NOT to the Best Interests of the UK and its people, it is to their Brussels Paymasters and PROTECTING their FAT, TAX-FREE Golden EU LIFETIME Payouts - not forgetting their many EU-based, very lucrative BUSINESS interests which will become endangered and much less lucrative should the UK REALLY Brexit.

The 'Illuminati' may well be a fiction but the above RICH and POWERFUL are REAL and they DO HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN SCUPPERING BREXIT.

They are also in a STRATEGIC position to do so, and ARE doing just that.

Next - George Soros, The Open Society Foundation, & Gina Miller

If I said those red parts to you or your friends, they would have been presented as me baiting you and the 358382857th Anti-Dezzy thread would have been made.

I must say though, looking briefly at your post, I saw the term 'Pro-EU traitors'......how very diplomatic, anyone that doesn't share your views on brexit is a traitor? You tried to twist my opinion by making out that I was saying it was a fact (when it should be obvious to everyone that is wasn't) but here you are bandying the word traitor about because someone is pro-eu thus trying to deny opinions you dislike.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

If I said those red parts to you or your friends, they would have been presented as me baiting you and the 358382857th Anti-Dezzy thread would have been made.

I must say though, looking briefly at your post, I saw the term 'Pro-EU traitors'......how very diplomatic, anyone that doesn't share your views on brexit is a traitor? You tried to twist my opinion by making out that I was saying it was a fact (when it should be obvious to everyone that is wasn't) but here you are bandying the word traitor about because someone is pro-eu thus trying to deny opinions you dislike.

It seems blatantly obvious to me that Kirk was not suggesting ANYONE that doesn’t agree with his views on Brexit - a very convenient distortion of the sentiment expressed, and you talk of twisting - is an EU traitor, but an informed account of why many of those voting against Brexit in the Lords have no right doing so as they clearly have a vested personal interest in voting against Brexit that has nothing to do with the best interests of the country or the vast majority of the people in it!

It is without doubt a conflict of interests and should not be allowed - it makes a total joke of the whole downright corrupt nature of the system! Remainers would be screaming blue murder if the boot was on the other foot!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

If I said those red parts to you or your friends, they would have been presented as me baiting you and the 358382857th Anti-Dezzy thread would have been made.

I must say though, looking briefly at your post, I saw the term 'Pro-EU traitors'......how very diplomatic, anyone that doesn't share your views on brexit is a traitor? You tried to twist my opinion by making out that I was saying it was a fact (when it should be obvious to everyone that is wasn't) but here you are bandying the word traitor about because someone is pro-eu thus trying to deny opinions you dislike.

What my 'friends' would do is of no relevance here.

I have NEVER accused you of baiting me, have I?

Again, you UNFAIRLY put me in a position where I CANNOT respond to you without dragging up the past - something I did not want to do.

However, seeing as how it is you who are doing just that;

I objected to the times you used your Mod Status to unjustly remove my response posts to you because you had no answer to the points put forward in them.

I objected to the needless abusive aggression you often used in your responses to my posts.

There - now THAT is out of the way;

he text which you have reproduced in red are NOT 'snide comments' they are legitimate comments based solely on what you wrote in the relevant posts.

I used the term 'Pro-EU Traitors' because in the context of what they are and what they are doing THAT is EXACTLY what they are.

I have NEVER used the term 'Traitor' in respect of any 'Remainer' on here - no matter how extremely fanatical they may be because they have a RIGHT to support remaining in the EU if they want to.

PEERS in the House of Lords who receive BRITISH TAX-PAYERS money of £300 per day (often for just turning up to sleep) are another matter altogether because they ARE 'EU-Traitors'.


Instead of voting on a motion for the BEST interests of the UK and its people based on rigorous analysis and contemplation the issues concerning that motion, these bastards have only TWO considerations;

1) Their duty to adhere to the OATH OF LOYALTY which they swore to their EU PAYMASTERS

2) Protecting their personal incomes from those EU Paymasters.

THEY ARE PRO-EU TRAITORS.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

We had the choice of whether to stay or go, we had the choice of who runs the show and we still voted to keep an incompetent government in place despite knowing how terrible they were. Of course it's the people's fault if they are unhappy with how things go because THEY are the ones who decided to leave, they are the ones who decided which party should handle Brexit.

The bit about 'contacting your rep' is all well and good but it's not realistic. The Tories are running things and they'll be running things for years until the next election at least, they don't give a **** what people think because the election is way off. It doesn't matter if people are happy with Brexit or not, the referendum was to decide whether to leave or not, not HOW we should leave. The only control we had over that was deciding which government should handle it and people chose a terrible party to do it.

Voters only have themselves to blame.

I don't believe they are an incompetent government, quite the opposite actually. Too much regarding competence is subjectively defined by political persuasion.

I voted remain, because I felt the status quo was the better option, but brexit in itself doesnt bother me. People have such short term views and they shouldn't. It took 40 years for us to get the state of integration that we have now with the EU and it will take another 40 years of shaping relationships on brexit until we can truly decide if it was the correct path. By that time, the world will have changed beyond all recognition. Governments from left and right will have shaped the future. It's not and never will be about the now

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I don't believe they are an incompetent government, quite the opposite actually. Too much regarding competence is subjectively defined by political persuasion.

I voted remain, because I felt the status quo was the better option, but brexit in itself doesnt bother me. People have such short term views and they shouldn't. It took 40 years for us to get the state of integration that we have now with the EU and it will take another 40 years of shaping relationships on brexit until we can truly decide if it was the correct path. By that time, the world will have changed beyond all recognition. Governments from left and right will have shaped the future. It's not and never will be about the now

Some excellent points BOTS.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I don't believe they are an incompetent government, quite the opposite actually. Too much regarding competence is subjectively defined by political persuasion.

I voted remain, because I felt the status quo was the better option, but brexit in itself doesnt bother me. People have such short term views and they shouldn't. It took 40 years for us to get the state of integration that we have now with the EU and it will take another 40 years of shaping relationships on brexit until we can truly decide if it was the correct path. By that time, the world will have changed beyond all recognition. Governments from left and right will have shaped the future. It's not and never will be about the now

Like you I voted remain because of better the devil you know and some of the arguments didn't ring through, and I am not that opposed to Brexit either, I would just like to have been given truths and facts rather than a load of hogwash. I think the Irish border is a dealbreaker and will see us staying in the customs union, I can't see any way around it.