[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Again I'll say the simplest solution would be for the two toilets to be for:
(cis) Women
Everyone Else

Same for sport

[Vicky.]

Transmen are biological women. I would have thought the court giving an answer to that would be a good thing. After all, now no cis men can enter female only spaces by pretending to be transmen. Which was apparently concerning to people.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Transmen are biological women. I would have thought the court giving an answer to that would be a good thing. After all, now no cis men can enter female only spaces by pretending to be transmen. Which was apparently concerning to people.

Yes, that's great. Fantastic news. And it's great news that Trans Men get to use the male facilities. It's what I was advocating for the whole time.

I just find it so interesting that your whole argument has been biological women shouldn't be sharing spaces with biological men, and yet you're okay with trans men using the male facilities... am I on glue, or is that not also biological women and biological men sharing a space?

Can you explain something for me as to why one is okay and the other isn't?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Yes, that's great. Fantastic news. And it's great news that Trans Men get to use the male facilities. It's what I was advocating for the whole time.

I just find it so interesting that your whole argument has been biological women shouldn't be sharing spaces with biological men, and yet you're okay with trans men using the male facilities... am I on glue, or is that not also biological women and biological men sharing a space?

Can you explain something for me as to why one is okay and the other isn't?

Because women need space away from male people in certain circumstances. Due to (some) mens treatment of women and just..privacy reasons. If men are concerned about single sex spaces then they can lobby and such

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Because women need space away from male people in certain circumstances. Due to (some) mens treatment of women and just..privacy reasons. If men are concerned about single sex spaces then they can lobby and such

What about the trans men, who you call females and biological women? You seem happy for them to share spaces with biological men? I thought women needed space away from men? I'm confused.

[Vicky.]

Also men are not as much in need of single sex spaces. If they are then I guess it's up to them to complain and such.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Also men are not as much in need of single sex spaces. If they are then I guess it's up to them to complain and such.

It's not really about men being unsafe. It's about sending trans women into male spaces for men to kick the **** in to them, to be blunt.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by BBXX

It's not really about men being unsafe. It's about sending trans women into male spaces for men to kick the **** in to them, to be blunt.

Have you evidence of that happening since the ruling?

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Have you evidence of that happening since the ruling?

I haven't looked, but you cannot ignore the fact trans women are 4x more likely to be a victim of violence than cis gender people. Do you really honestly think a trans woman is safer in the male changing rooms than the female ones? Are cis women really that violent?

[Livia]

Trans women suggested we use disabled toilets if we didn't like them in women's toilets. I suggest they take their own advice.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

Trans women suggested we use disabled toilets if we didn't like them in women's toilets. I suggest they take their own advice.

Indeed and as I indicated earlier establishments have already taken steps by turning single toilets into unisex also as has been said on numerous occasions toilets are a distraction technique...refuges sports jobs all much more important but don't let that get in the way of 'worrying' about peeing

[Crimson Dynamo]

Thankfully women and girls will now be able to feel safe again

that is progress

[Vicky.]

It's transmens choice if they wish to use male spaces imo. Unless men complain about that, in which case a discussion needs to be had (not #nodebate stonewall)

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It's transmens choice if they wish to use male spaces imo. Unless men complain about that, in which case a discussion needs to be had (not #nodebate stonewall)

Okay cool. But you’re fine with them using women’s spaces too, if they want to?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Okay cool. But you’re fine with them using women’s spaces too, if they want to?

If they don't pass yes. If this is the case then they will probably be at risk in the mens. Most transmen I have met just look a bit butch. But testosterone is strong stuff so I know it's quite possible for them to fully pass

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

If they don't pass yes. If this is the case then they will probably be at risk in the mens. Most transmen I have met just look a bit butch. But testosterone is strong stuff so I know it's quite possible for them to fully pass

That's fine, thanks for admitting it's not about the importance of biological sex at all, it's just about how they look.

It's interesting trans men are given the "for their safety they can use the bathroom they are most safe in" but trans women aren't granted that pass. Patriarchy, amirite?

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It's transmens choice if they wish to use male spaces imo. Unless men complain about that, in which case a discussion needs to be had (not #nodebate stonewall)

Personally I would not walk into a man's space without men's permission, so that's generally where I've left it.

[Livia]

There is no such thing as cis women.

Women
Trans women
Men
Trans men

I do not need a title imposed on me for the benefit of a tiny subsection of society.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Livia

There is no such thing as cis women.

Women
Trans women
Men
Trans men

I do not need a title imposed on me for the benefit of a tiny subsection of society.

Nobody is forcing you to use it. Cis is an adjective that has been used for a long, long time. If you want to not use words that fine. If you don’t wish to be called it, that’s also fine and I won’t call you specifically a cis woman, but you don’t get deny words just because they trigger you.

[bots]

how many cases have there been reported about men feeling threatened by a trans man using their toilet? Surely it was a big issue prior to this ruling?

[BBXX]

Yes, there are some extremists who think it's transphobic to not want to date a trans person - I have a problem with that and it feels gay-erasure-esque. However it's a tiny minority of a minority. It feels hyperbolic to say lesbians are "under attack".

It's so weird because whenever minorities are discussed, conversation always turns to the extremists within that group, the group that by far do not represent the majority of people within that demographic. It happens all the time.

This whole conversation has been hyperbolic in fact, this idea that trans women are some extreme threat to women because of a few isolated incidences where a trans woman existing has negatively effected a cis woman.

A recent study showed that a third of men would rape a woman if they thought there'd be no consequences/nobody would ever find out. A third of straight cis University students. A third. But instead the world seems to focus on trans women being this insane threat to every other woman out there. Give me a break.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Yes, there are some extremists who think it's transphobic to not want to date a trans person - I have a problem with that and it feels gay-erasure-esque. However it's a tiny minority of a minority. It feels hyperbolic to say lesbians are "under attack".

It's so weird because whenever minorities are discussed, conversation always turns to the extremists within that group, the group that by far do not represent the majority of people within that demographic. It happens all the time.

This whole conversation has been hyperbolic in fact, this idea that trans women are some extreme threat to women because of a few isolated incidences where a trans woman existing has negatively effected a cis woman.

A recent study showed that a third of men would rape a woman if they thought there'd be no consequences/nobody would ever find out. A third of straight cis University students. A third. But instead the world seems to focus on trans women being this insane threat to every other woman out there. Give me a break.

A third of men are basically saying that they have considered raping women in the past?

That's a horrifying statistic.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

A third of men are basically saying that they have considered raping women in the past?

That's a horrifying statistic.

It's vile but sadly not surprising

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It's vile but sadly not surprising

Thank god that it wasn't the majority of men.

Small mercies and all that.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Yes, there are some extremists who think it's transphobic to not want to date a trans person - I have a problem with that and it feels gay-erasure-esque. However it's a tiny minority of a minority. It feels hyperbolic to say lesbians are "under attack".

It's so weird because whenever minorities are discussed, conversation always turns to the extremists within that group, the group that by far do not represent the majority of people within that demographic. It happens all the time.

This whole conversation has been hyperbolic in fact, this idea that trans women are some extreme threat to women because of a few isolated incidences where a trans woman existing has negatively effected a cis woman.

A recent study showed that a third of men would rape a woman if they thought there'd be no consequences/nobody would ever find out. A third of straight cis University students. A third. But instead the world seems to focus on trans women being this insane threat to every other woman out there. Give me a break.

You are completely missing the point, transwomen are not the threat, self ID is because it gives opportunists an opportunity, dont know how many times this needs to be said to you

Also when has a transman taken away an opportunity from a man, can you point me to where a transman is a CEO or heads up an organisation that specifically supports men? Any transmen taking medals at sports events away from men? Any transmen in men only clubs..you just never hear it