[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

It is the responsibility of the state to enforced rules.
But id be ****ed if tax payers money is to be spent on putting in sprinkler systems
thats these people responsibilities, if they own the flat, or the landlords responsibilities.
at the end of the day, these people would most likely not have been for the price to install sprinkers as they wouldnt want to spend the money or see their rent go up.
Living a cheap life can have consequences.

Thats obviously not the case. The petitions from the residents about more fire safety are proof to that.
Are you suggesting all those people living in that now burnt out block were living a cheap life? These people were living in the richest borough in the country. Are they cheap because they couldn't afford to get out off Lancaster West, the only substantial council estate that Rotten borough has.

Then the government should have raised the rent higher than the cost to fit the sprinkler system and made us some good money.

What an incredibly insensitive suggestion. They haven't even found all the dead yet and you're suggesting they could of saved themselves if only they didn't want to live on the cheap and we could of made money out of them by screwing them over for the very thing that could of saved their lives.
UFB

[MTVN]

Thoughtful article from Dan Hannan

We are still at that stage in the aftermath of the Grenfell horror. Obviously, we need to find out what went wrong, and assess whether other places are at risk. If there is evidence of criminal negligence, of course that negligence should be punished. But the discussion over the past two days has gone well beyond these things. The country is bellowing for a scapegoat big enough and monstrous enough to bear responsibility for such an outrage. The idea of a tragic accident simply won’t do.

It’s easy to see why. Try reading the story of 12-year-old Jessica Urbano, whose mother got a desperate message on her phone at 1.39 am saying “Mummy! Come and get me!” I defy any sentient adult to look at that little girl’s photograph without choking up. Now multiply that grief by the number of missing people and you can see why we want to find someone to blame: it’s the easiest way to make sense of these abominations.

Like our pre-modern ancestors, we have an innate sense that, for such a horrifying event to have happened, there must have been great wickedness at work. Like them, we disagree as to who was responsible for the wickedness. Usually, though, just as they did, we blame whomever we already happened not to like. Glancing at this morning’s newspapers, I see that the Guardian blames inequality, the Mail blames eco-regulations, the Express blames EU rules and the Mirror blames the Tories. Simon Jenkins, that champion of harmonious and well-proportioned architecture, blames tower-blocks. Owen Jones, my favourite radical, blames racketeering landlords. For all I know, one or more of these villains may indeed be at fault; but, for now, it is mainly guesswork.

Guesswork and, perhaps, a measure of displacement activity. Leftists are raging at Theresa May for meeting emergency workers instead of victims. Rightists are horrified that Jeremy Corbyn, revealing himself in a crisis, has called for the requisitioning of private houses. Both things are easier to do than to try, even for a few seconds, to imagine what Jessica Urbano’s parents are going through.

https://capx.co/grenfell-tower-a-gre...at-wickedness/

[arista]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Sprinklers will never be brought into the flats themselves due to insurance issues.

Thing will change
a wet LCD TV
but still Alive

[arista]

In many high rise flats in Brighton, East Sussex
there are now fitting Sprinklers
in all flats.

[DemolitionRed]

A new district heating scheme was installed in Grenfell Tower in the rehab. completed in 2015, whether using the original concrete ducts or not I don't know. The issue which occurs to me is what was the effect of this ducting (old and possibly new) in compromising the fire and smoke sealing of flats and floors which is crucial in a block like this?

Apparently after the rehab. a complete a new gas supply system was found to be necessary and was installed through the whole block.

I heard no mention of these possibilities yesterday, but today for the first time I heard a fire prevention expert on Radio 4 mention "heating pipes" as a possible vector for smoke or flame transmission across what are supposed to be internal barriers.

Nevertheless... the external cladding, again the cheapo option when a safer one was available, seems to be the main suspect for breaching or, rather, bypassing the internal fire barriers at present. If that turns out to be either the whole or part of the case, then unfortunately sprinkler systems in the flats would have made little or no difference.

[arista]

Lilly Allen also protesting
she was on Ch4HD news last night for 10mins debate

[Crimson Dynamo]

you dont think kids would be stupid enough to target cladding tower blocks and try to set a panel alight for a laugh do you?

i mean like in the ensuing weeks

[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

you dont think kids would be stupid enough to target cladding tower blocks and try to set a panel alight for a laugh do you?

No
they know how it started
faulty fridge jammed against a window
so the fire Got out that way
once on the Plastics cladding, outside
no one could stop it

[the truth]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

A new district heating scheme was installed in Grenfell Tower in the rehab. completed in 2015, whether using the original concrete ducts or not I don't know. The issue which occurs to me is what was the effect of this ducting (old and possibly new) in compromising the fire and smoke sealing of flats and floors which is crucial in a block like this?

Apparently after the rehab. a complete a new gas supply system was found to be necessary and was installed through the whole block.

I heard no mention of these possibilities yesterday, but today for the first time I heard a fire prevention expert on Radio 4 mention "heating pipes" as a possible vector for smoke or flame transmission across what are supposed to be internal barriers.

Nevertheless... the external cladding, again the cheapo option when a safer one was available, seems to be the main suspect for breaching or, rather, bypassing the internal fire barriers at present. If that turns out to be either the whole or part of the case, then unfortunately sprinkler systems in the flats would have made little or no difference.

sprinklers might have saved them enough time to save more lives...one smart lady ran a bath to flood the flat and that gave her and her kids an extra hour to play with as the firemen came to her rescue

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by the truth

sprinklers might have saved them enough time to save more lives...one smart lady ran a bath to flood the flat and that gave her and her kids an extra hour to play with as the firemen came to her rescue

i think i am right that there has never been a death in a sprinkler fitted building?

[Crimson Dynamo]

uh oh getting violent in street around council protest. LBC reporting a cameraman just got beaten up

The 30C forecast for the weekend could likely lead to riots in London

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by the truth

sprinklers might have saved them enough time to save more lives...one smart lady ran a bath to flood the flat and that gave her and her kids an extra hour to play with as the firemen came to her rescue

Running a bath is a really good idea in a fire like this so well done that mother.

Even if there was such a system. it's likely that it wouldn't have been properly maintained and wouldn't have worked, just like the fire alarm and emergency lighting systems weren't and duly didn't work. (See the Grenfell Action Groups blog. It really is worth a read https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/ )

[smudgie]

If new fire regulations state that any residential building over 14 floors must be built with a sprinkler system then surely the law should also apply to any building being redeveloped.
120 flats at an approx price of three thousand six hundred quid each to install sprinklers, less than half a million, the total budget was near £10 million.
Surely the safety should come above the tarting up.
Not laying the blame at anybody in particular, if the cladding wasn't banned and councils all over the country have used them then that would cover all parties.
The question for me is why it wasn't banned?
How did it pass fire regulations?

[UserSince2005]

****ing scum.

[UserSince2005]

What kind of people use the death of innocent children.
To enjoy violent protests.
****ing animals.
pathetic.

[arista]

The PM has give £5million fund
to the help all from the Tower.


Ref : SkyNewsHD /BBCnewsHD

[arista]

The PM just visited some, finally ,
in the community
with a large Police backing

[arista]

['I tried to get out the window
but it was melted': Grenfell Tower survivor
'tripped over bodies' as he
desperately scrambled to
safety wrapped in a soaked jumper
Christos Fairbairn, 41, lived
on the 15th floor of the block
but got to safety
Woken at 12.45am with banging
on door and smoke began
pouring into flat
His window was melted
and he was forced through
smoke and intense heat
He said: 'I was tripping over bodies.
On one of the floors I tripped
badly and fell, as I looked up
I saw the face of a dead man']


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4kBY2n7O4

[smudgie]

BBC just announced that the figure is now expected to be 70 .

[UserSince2005]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

What kind of people use the death of innocent children.
To enjoy violent protests.
****ing animals.
pathetic.

luckily calm has been restore. i was worried it was going to get out of hand.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by arista

The PM has give £5million fund
to the help all from the Tower.


Ref : SkyNewsHD /BBCnewsHD

A quick reckoning makes that just over £40K per family

[Jian Yang]

Lily Allen makes me sick. Who does she think she is? Pushing her own agenda as per. She'll enter politics soon, you watch!

Her faux outrage could wait, residents and victims families should be no1 priority right now. Stupid Middle Class SJW hasn't got a clue!

[UserSince2005]

Originally Posted by Jian Yang

Lily Allen makes me sick. Who does she think she is? Pushing her own agenda as per. She'll enter politics soon, you watch!

Her faux outrage could wait, residents and victims families should be no1 priority right now. Stupid Middle Class SJW hasn't got a clue!

shes an ugly fugly hag demon.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

A new district heating scheme was installed in Grenfell Tower in the rehab. completed in 2015, whether using the original concrete ducts or not I don't know. The issue which occurs to me is what was the effect of this ducting (old and possibly new) in compromising the fire and smoke sealing of flats and floors which is crucial in a block like this?

Apparently after the rehab. a complete a new gas supply system was found to be necessary and was installed through the whole block.

I heard no mention of these possibilities yesterday, but today for the first time I heard a fire prevention expert on Radio 4 mention "heating pipes" as a possible vector for smoke or flame transmission across what are supposed to be internal barriers.

Nevertheless... the external cladding, again the cheapo option when a safer one was available, seems to be the main suspect for breaching or, rather, bypassing the internal fire barriers at present. If that turns out to be either the whole or part of the case, then unfortunately sprinkler systems in the flats would have made little or no difference.

But if the fire started in a kitchen and a sprinkler had been installed the fire might have been put out before it could make its way outside, ifs and buts but they might have been more chance of it being contained

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

A quick reckoning makes that just over £40K per family

It's emergency funds for food and clothing