[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Originally Posted by the truth

nah but you can name yourself a predictably tedious attention seeker

omg slay hun

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

i am slain

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Scott

i am slain

Wow -- A message from beyond the grave. Proof of the afterlife at last.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

i love you kirklancaster

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Scott

i love you kirklancaster

I reciprocate Scott.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

*we've only just begun plays*

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Scott

*we've only just begun plays*

[Ammi]

..I agree with Livia in that it's about what we feel ourselves and about interpretations as well..I think that religion is like anything in that there is 'good' or 'bad' that we can take from most things..and also our own personal faiths/beliefs/philosophies/'meanings' etc can't be 'proven' as such because they are just 'feelings'...with 'non believers' as in scientists etc though, they may hold no religious beliefs and only believe in the 'proven', the 'science' of it..but surely there is still something in their lives that can't be 'proven' which they do believe in..?..maybe they believe in love because they have experienced it but it's just a 'feeling'..they believe in sadness/in anger etc..because they 'feel them' or have felt them/experienced them but you can't 'prove' them..I'm sure there are also scientists who spend their lifetimes trying to prove what is their own personal theories on something but never do, so in essence that thing never 'existed' for them yet it was something that they believed to be true..a 'faith'...or if they were to get married and make a vow..?...'for the rest of out lives'...it's a belief/a 'leap of faith' in something that is an uncertainty....


..anyway, I'm just going to go back the school thing because it's something that while I agree that it's wrong to 'indoctrinate' and I'm sure that happens in some schools but that for me would be an 'extreme', whereas there are many, many schools who 'take the good, the positive' of religion and apply it/interpret it in a way that helps children to understand things like empathy, tolerance and understandings etc..'the thought of others'...I was just thinking this morning about the most recent example of the 'good' of something which is 'church' related..this was the Harvest celebration which we hold in church/very much church related...something that we as a school and also the Vicar talk to the children about before they have their assembly and they bring in something/produce to be given to local shelters for homeless etc in a way of..'well, most of us are ok because we have families/parents who care for us/feed us..have nice warm houses etc..but what about those who don't/who aren't so fortunate..?..and teaching them to see 'beyond' and feel empathy for others...because from a very young age, it's something that is a 'positive lesson'...much the same as with charities we support, which the children choose themselves..in doing that, they research/gain knowledge/understanding/tolerance etc and things that help them to 'grow'...maybe something that could help give their lives 'meaning'..?..

...but it's much in the same way that we also acknowledge non religious things also..for instance, we respect and acknowledge the silence of Remembrance Day and for those who have died for something they believed in/had faith in...'to provoke thoughts of those who whose lives were different' and less fortunate...


..there are lots of things in life that will 'work' for some and not for others and bring positive things in their lives and with that, those positive things will be felt by the people around them/the people they care about and maybe even more than that..I believe in certain things like CBT..I believe in it because it's something that has been a big part of my life and something that has worked for me personally at a time when I needed it but there would be others who it wouldn't work for at all because we're all different..so for them 'it doesn't exist' as a 'life philosophy' or something that has any meaning in their lives but it does exist because it does exist for some people and they have 'faith' in it...religion can bring and does bring positives to people's lives and those positives can effect other things and other people as well as themselves so that's very 'real'..if it brings prejudices/intolerances and negatives as well, then that's that person's own interpretations...in lots of people's lives/most people's lives there is fairly much a lot of rubbish that will bring you down to a low place as well as the good stuff and whether it be a religious faith/a therapy/family, friends/medication etc..it's just drawing on what helps for that person, no matter what that is...


...anyway, because it's coming up to that time of year again, I was also thinking about the 'meaning' of Christmas and I guess back to the 'feeling' which also made me think about World War 1 with the Christmas Day Truce which for me shows the 'feeling' of Christmas Day so well ..there are people who don't 'believe' in Christmas at all and that can be for very good reasons or personal experience to them and it can be a time of great sadness for some people..'the worst time of the year'...there are people who believe in it as a day of celebrating a birth of 'Christ'..or a belief in Father Christmas of gifts etc...for me personally and I think probably lots of others, it's a 'feel good thing' as well as other stuff ..a time where it feels as though people are a little more thoughtful..?..where there is excitement about buying gifts for the people we care about/seeing the excitement of our children, lots of good things apart from the shopping bit...maybe not related to the topic at all but for me it is in that it takes the positive from something and creates a good feeling for a lot of people because of the interpretations they themselves have of it..and for me personally, it is all to do with interpretations...if religion is interpreted as intolerances and prejudice, it's because of the person interpreting it and not the religion itself....


..so anyway, lots of morning thoughts...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I agree with Livia in that it's about what we feel ourselves and about interpretations as well..I think that religion is like anything in that there is 'good' or 'bad' that we can take from most things..and also our own personal faiths/beliefs/philosophies/'meanings' etc can't be 'proven' as such because they are just 'feelings'...with 'non believers' as in scientists etc though, they may hold no religious beliefs and only believe in the 'proven', the 'science' of it..but surely there is still something in their lives that can't be 'proven' which they do believe in..?..maybe they believe in love because they have experienced it but it's just a 'feeling'..they believe in sadness/in anger etc..because they 'feel them' or have felt them/experienced them but you can't 'prove' them..I'm sure there are also scientists who spend their lifetimes trying to prove what is their own personal theories on something but never do, so in essence that thing never 'existed' for them yet it was something that they believed to be true..a 'faith'...or if they were to get married and make a vow..?...'for the rest of out lives'...it's a belief/a 'leap of faith' in something that is an uncertainty....


..anyway, I'm just going to go back the school thing because it's something that while I agree that it's wrong to 'indoctrinate' and I'm sure that happens in some schools but that for me would be an 'extreme', whereas there are many, many schools who 'take the good, the positive' of religion and apply it/interpret it in a way that helps children to understand things like empathy, tolerance and understandings etc..'the thought of others'...I was just thinking this morning about the most recent example of the 'good' of something which is 'church' related..this was the Harvest celebration which we hold in church/very much church related...something that we as a school and also the Vicar talk to the children about before they have their assembly and they bring in something/produce to be given to local shelters for homeless etc in a way of..'well, most of us are ok because we have families/parents who care for us/feed us..have nice warm houses etc..but what about those who don't/who aren't so fortunate..?..and teaching them to see 'beyond' and feel empathy for others...because from a very young age, it's something that is a 'positive lesson'...much the same as with charities we support, which the children choose themselves..in doing that, they research/gain knowledge/understanding/tolerance etc and things that help them to 'grow'...maybe something that could help give their lives 'meaning'..?..

...but it's much in the same way that we also acknowledge non religious things also..for instance, we respect and acknowledge the silence of Remembrance Day and for those who have died for something they believed in/had faith in...'to provoke thoughts of those who whose lives were different' and less fortunate...


..there are lots of things in life that will 'work' for some and not for others and bring positive things in their lives and with that, those positive things will be felt by the people around them/the people they care about and maybe even more than that..I believe in certain things like CBT..I believe in it because it's something that has been a big part of my life and something that has worked for me personally at a time when I needed it but there would be others who it wouldn't work for at all because we're all different..so for them 'it doesn't exist' as a 'life philosophy' or something that has any meaning in their lives but it does exist because it does exist for some people and they have 'faith' in it...religion can bring and does bring positives to people's lives and those positives can effect other things and other people as well as themselves so that's very 'real'..if it brings prejudices/intolerances and negatives as well, then that's that person's own interpretations...in lots of people's lives/most people's lives there is fairly much a lot of rubbish that will bring you down to a low place as well as the good stuff and whether it be a religious faith/a therapy/family, friends/medication etc..it's just drawing on what helps for that person, no matter what that is...


...anyway, because it's coming up to that time of year again, I was also thinking about the 'meaning' of Christmas and I guess back to the 'feeling' which also made me think about World War 1 with the Christmas Day Truce which for me shows the 'feeling' of Christmas Day so well ..there are people who don't 'believe' in Christmas at all and that can be for very good reasons or personal experience to them and it can be a time of great sadness for some people..'the worst time of the year'...there are people who believe in it as a day of celebrating a birth of 'Christ'..or a belief in Father Christmas of gifts etc...for me personally and I think probably lots of others, it's a 'feel good thing' as well as other stuff ..a time where it feels as though people are a little more thoughtful..?..where there is excitement about buying gifts for the people we care about/seeing the excitement of our children, lots of good things apart from the shopping bit...maybe not related to the topic at all but for me it is in that it takes the positive from something and creates a good feeling for a lot of people because of the interpretations they themselves have of it..and for me personally, it is all to do with interpretations...if religion is interpreted as intolerances and prejudice, it's because of the person interpreting it and not the religion itself....


..so anyway, lots of morning thoughts...

Simply beautiful Ammi, and valid.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I agree with Livia in that it's about what we feel ourselves and about interpretations as well..I think that religion is like anything in that there is 'good' or 'bad' that we can take from most things..and also our own personal faiths/beliefs/philosophies/'meanings' etc can't be 'proven' as such because they are just 'feelings'...with 'non believers' as in scientists etc though, they may hold no religious beliefs and only believe in the 'proven', the 'science' of it..but surely there is still something in their lives that can't be 'proven' which they do believe in..?..maybe they believe in love because they have experienced it but it's just a 'feeling'..they believe in sadness/in anger etc..because they 'feel them' or have felt them/experienced them but you can't 'prove' them..I'm sure there are also scientists who spend their lifetimes trying to prove what is their own personal theories on something but never do, so in essence that thing never 'existed' for them yet it was something that they believed to be true..a 'faith'...or if they were to get married and make a vow..?...'for the rest of out lives'...it's a belief/a 'leap of faith' in something that is an uncertainty....


..anyway, I'm just going to go back the school thing because it's something that while I agree that it's wrong to 'indoctrinate' and I'm sure that happens in some schools but that for me would be an 'extreme', whereas there are many, many schools who 'take the good, the positive' of religion and apply it/interpret it in a way that helps children to understand things like empathy, tolerance and understandings etc..'the thought of others'...I was just thinking this morning about the most recent example of the 'good' of something which is 'church' related..this was the Harvest celebration which we hold in church/very much church related...something that we as a school and also the Vicar talk to the children about before they have their assembly and they bring in something/produce to be given to local shelters for homeless etc in a way of..'well, most of us are ok because we have families/parents who care for us/feed us..have nice warm houses etc..but what about those who don't/who aren't so fortunate..?..and teaching them to see 'beyond' and feel empathy for others...because from a very young age, it's something that is a 'positive lesson'...much the same as with charities we support, which the children choose themselves..in doing that, they research/gain knowledge/understanding/tolerance etc and things that help them to 'grow'...maybe something that could help give their lives 'meaning'..?..

...but it's much in the same way that we also acknowledge non religious things also..for instance, we respect and acknowledge the silence of Remembrance Day and for those who have died for something they believed in/had faith in...'to provoke thoughts of those who whose lives were different' and less fortunate...


..there are lots of things in life that will 'work' for some and not for others and bring positive things in their lives and with that, those positive things will be felt by the people around them/the people they care about and maybe even more than that..I believe in certain things like CBT..I believe in it because it's something that has been a big part of my life and something that has worked for me personally at a time when I needed it but there would be others who it wouldn't work for at all because we're all different..so for them 'it doesn't exist' as a 'life philosophy' or something that has any meaning in their lives but it does exist because it does exist for some people and they have 'faith' in it...religion can bring and does bring positives to people's lives and those positives can effect other things and other people as well as themselves so that's very 'real'..if it brings prejudices/intolerances and negatives as well, then that's that person's own interpretations...in lots of people's lives/most people's lives there is fairly much a lot of rubbish that will bring you down to a low place as well as the good stuff and whether it be a religious faith/a therapy/family, friends/medication etc..it's just drawing on what helps for that person, no matter what that is...


...anyway, because it's coming up to that time of year again, I was also thinking about the 'meaning' of Christmas and I guess back to the 'feeling' which also made me think about World War 1 with the Christmas Day Truce which for me shows the 'feeling' of Christmas Day so well ..there are people who don't 'believe' in Christmas at all and that can be for very good reasons or personal experience to them and it can be a time of great sadness for some people..'the worst time of the year'...there are people who believe in it as a day of celebrating a birth of 'Christ'..or a belief in Father Christmas of gifts etc...for me personally and I think probably lots of others, it's a 'feel good thing' as well as other stuff ..a time where it feels as though people are a little more thoughtful..?..where there is excitement about buying gifts for the people we care about/seeing the excitement of our children, lots of good things apart from the shopping bit...maybe not related to the topic at all but for me it is in that it takes the positive from something and creates a good feeling for a lot of people because of the interpretations they themselves have of it..and for me personally, it is all to do with interpretations...if religion is interpreted as intolerances and prejudice, it's because of the person interpreting it and not the religion itself....


..so anyway, lots of morning thoughts...

This is all getting a bit black and white again for me, not everyone is faithless because they don't follow a specific religious doctrine, nor do I feel anyone should be mocked for doing so.
Harvest festival has nothing to do with church.
Exhibiting humility for those less fortunate than yourself such as the homeless can happen all year round it shouldn't necessarily be associated with a specific time of year, that may be a better life lesson.
Yuletide ( hearth and home) is a very special time of year, it is, it was and it ever shall be.
I personally understand how it creates a sense of community but at times it can feel to outsiders that those who choose to follow a religious path have deemed those that don't to be incapable of the upper echelon of morality that they bask in.
It for me can be a positive influence and your example of suburban bliss is lovely, it's not a case of 'if you're not for us you're against us' though and the feeling of mistrust from the religious school my son attended tainted my perception of them massively.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Problem is religious people think that its the religion telling them to love they neighbour and be kind etc

meanwhile everyone else just does that as it is common sense.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Problem is religious people think that its the religion telling them to love they neighbour and be kind etc

meanwhile everyone else just does that as it is common sense.

Yeah, I'm not bashing religion here, people can believe whatever they want but I do dislike it when people act like if it weren't for religion people would have been incapable of treating eachother right

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, I'm not bashing religion here, people can believe whatever they want but I do dislike it when people act like if it weren't for religion people would have been incapable of treating eachother right

Indeed, the Celtic culture or chinese had worked out all the morality the bible threw up long before Christianity arrived

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Indeed, the Celtic culture or chinese had worked out all the morality the bible threw up long before Christianity arrived

Not guilty LT - I've already stated that 'Man has an intrinsic Moral Code'. How it got there is the $64.000 question.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Not guilty LT - I've already stated that 'Man has an intrinsic Moral Code'. How it got there is the $64.000 question.

Our behavoirs are learned and honed through natural selection. Time + the ability to survive, breed and pass on our DNA

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Indeed, the Celtic culture or chinese had worked out all the morality the bible threw up long before Christianity arrived

So no crime of any type existed in ancient Chinese and Celtic cultures?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

So no crime of any type existed in ancient Chinese and Celtic cultures?

How did you get that from LTs post? Crime has and always will exist unfortunately, religion or no religion

[waterhog]

this is to deep for me sorry.

[Jules2]

We all exchange views but as I believe it is the spirit which has to be lifted to take it further after we leave our bodies, anything positive which uplifts is great. It doesnt matter what our views are if they are honourable.

We have each possibly got to the point we are at by life experiences, my mystical venture has been through prayer and realisation of my own pathway. For others their prayers have taken them on different ventures of life. All is good for the old saying of "unto thine own self be true" is a very valid point.

We may, who knows, change our views as we get older, to keep an open mind is great.

[Crimson Dynamo]

To be fair when discussing religion its hard not to take that tone because its dealing with supernatural stuff and the main books that prop it up are full of crazy stuff that make little sense or contradict its self at every turn

Lets face it we are talking about a guy who is invisible, does not speak, does not do anything (or at least has been inactive for a few thousand years) and all we have to go on about him is some books written thousands of years ago by folks from an area of the world that is not reknowed for its level headed sense

Now combine that with a this Victorian hangover whereby religious piety is to be admmired and never criticised and we have a right old pickle

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

To be fair when discussing religion its hard not to take that tone because its dealing with supernatural stuff and the main books that prop it up are full of crazy stuff that make little sense or contradict its self at every turn

Lets face it we are talking about a guy who is invisible, does not speak, does not do anything (or at least has been inactive for a few thousand years) and all we have to go on about him is some books written thousands of years ago by folks from an area of the world that is not reknowed for its level headed sense

Now combine that with a this Victorian hangover whereby religious piety is to be admmired and never criticised and we have a right old pickle

LT, the dear Yang to my Ying, you are a very intelligent, seemingly well educated man who is possessed of an extremely admirable sense of humour. This being so, I'm sure you can contribute on this subject - or any other - without "taking that tone", no matter how ridiculous you may personally regard the subject as being.

And now I've said that; I'm a feared of your response!

"Ain't you afeared Oliver? Ain't you a quaking in your boots?"

Oliver might not be, but I am - treat me gently LT.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

To be fair when discussing religion its hard not to take that tone because its dealing with supernatural stuff and the main books that prop it up are full of crazy stuff that make little sense or contradict its self at every turn

Lets face it we are talking about a guy who is invisible, does not speak, does not do anything (or at least has been inactive for a few thousand years) and all we have to go on about him is some books written thousands of years ago by folks from an area of the world that is not reknowed for its level headed sense

Now combine that with a this Victorian hangover whereby religious piety is to be admmired and never criticised and we have a right old pickle

I agree with you re the Victorian age, religion and the bible seemed to be the only things that they had to consider. We seem to have come a long way since then with beings using their own consideration and minds. We are freer with our own thoughts.

Maybe the things which were knocked out of play in the earlier years are now coming back into their own. The recognition of the earth itself and all it's spiritual value. Those who think that way are no longer penalised by the dominance of other groups. The so called "witches" are not burnt at the stake.

To me there is possibly just one energy which is either used for the negative or the positive.

[Crimson Dynamo]

oh. some supernatural being has just cleaned the thread up a bit....

[Niamh.]

You can call me God from now on LT

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You can call me God from now on LT

I thought your PM last week says I have to call you "your Irish majesty" or I get another ban?


With this and having to do Josy's washing this week I am right fed up