[Niamh.]

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

He deserves life in prison for dissing Mr Stranglove

Don't worry, Strang has ways to get to him on the inside. He won't stand for this.

[Josy]

Brendans conviction has just been overturned

Breaking news on sky and CNN

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Josy

Brendans conviction has just been overturned

Breaking news on sky and CNN

Justice for B-Dass!

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Josy

Brendans conviction has just been overturned

Breaking news on sky and CNN

...oh I read this yesterday, Josy...it was only a little while ago as well that I was looking at the updates on the cases and it said that Brendan's case hadn't progressed from where the series left it, it was more the focus on Steven and Kathleen Zellner taking up his case and hopeful of the conviction being overturned with 'stunning new evidence' etc...I wonder if this is a part of it then/the first part...?...that Steven's situation is all hinged on Brendan's innocence first and then that can be progressed..?...hmmm, interesting as to what will happen now with him and how quickly....

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...oh I read this yesterday, Josy...it was only a little while ago as well that I was looking at the updates on the cases and it said that Brendan's case hadn't progressed from where the series left it, it was more the focus on Steven and Kathleen Zellner taking up his case and hopeful of the conviction being overturned with 'stunning new evidence' etc...I wonder if this is a part of it then/the first part...?...that Steven's situation is all hinged on Brendan's innocence first and then that can be progressed..?...hmmm, interesting as to what will happen now with him and how quickly....

I'm not sure about that because they didn't use Brendans statement in Steve's case did they? Also, by the sounds of it his conviction was overturned because of how badly the Police and his own lawyer acted towards him when he was a minor rather than proving he was innocent I still think he did it.

I am really interested to see what the new evidence they have for Steve is though

[Paula D]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So for the people who think Steve is innocent, who do you think actually did it?

I actually think it was Dassey's stepdad, he was such a creep. I can't remember all the evidence now but I know he gave evidence that the young lad contradicted.

Poor Brendan Dassey is the biggest victim in all of this IMO. How on earth could they have slit her throat and not left blood and DNA evidence. The fact that he made that up just goes to show that he was willing to say anything to get away from the police.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Paula D

I actually think it was Dassey's stepdad, he was such a creep. I can't remember all the evidence now but I know he gave evidence that the young lad contradicted.

Poor Brendan Dassey is the biggest victim in all of this IMO. How on earth could they have slit her throat and not left blood and DNA evidence. The fact that he made that up just goes to show that he was willing to say anything to get away from the police.

mmm I think if Steve is innocent then Dasseys brother and step dad are the next most likely candidates. I'm not so sure that Steve and Brendan didn't do it it though, it is possible that Brendan made up some stuff under pressure from the Police but still was telling some truths also. I just don't know why all the properties on the Avery land weren't searched when her car and remains were found there, would have answered those questions. Don't forget that Teresas DNA was actually found on the bullet they recovered from Steves garage

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Also, by the sounds of it his conviction was overturned because of how badly the Police and his own lawyer acted towards him when he was a minor rather than proving he was innocent I still think he did it.

That's the thing for me though, if Brendan was involved... he clearly had (probably still has) the mental capacity of a young child and would have been easily manipulated into his involvement with little understanding of what was going on or the magnitude of it. The fact that he was interviewed at all without an adult present is a disgrace... and the way they lead him in the interview only makes it worse. And then after all of that, he was essentially put on trial as an adult of sound mind... AND with sub-par representation. Just a total shambles really, and right for it to be overturned.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's the thing for me though, if Brendan was involved... he clearly had (probably still has) the mental capacity of a young child and would have been easily manipulated into his involvement with little understanding of what was going on or the magnitude of it. The fact that he was interviewed at all without an adult present is a disgrace... and the way they lead him in the interview only makes it worse. And then after all of that, he was essentially put on trial as an adult of sound mind... AND with sub-par representation. Just a total shambles really, and right for it to be overturned.

Yeah, I agree with all that. To add to that also he seemed scared of Steve and in one recorded phone call to his mother claimed that he'd been sexually abused by him. If they did actually do it, I would absolutely think that Brendan was also a victim and was probably traumatized by the whole thing.

Speaking of victims though, I do hope everyone remembers the real victim in all of this, that poor woman who was actually murdered, sometimes it feels like because of that TV series she's almost seen as a "baddie" along with her family :/ I wonder how they're feeling right now too

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, I agree with all that. To add to that also he seemed scared of Steve and in one recorded phone call to his mother claimed that he'd been sexually abused by him. If they did actually do it, I would absolutely think that Brendan was also a victim and was probably traumatized by the whole thing.

Yeah if it did happen exactly as the prosecution has claimed in the past, then I would imagine that Steven would be goading him into participating and helping, and that he would probably have feared (perhaps even rightly) for his own safety if he refused. Then because of his naivety and child-like way of thinking, he wouldn't have known that he could just tell the whole truth and probably get a lot of protection if he said that he was forced into it. He would just think that admitting to it would definitely cause even more trouble.

Speaking of victims though, I do hope everyone remembers the real victim in all of this, that poor woman who was actually murdered, sometimes it feels like because of that TV series she's almost seen as a "baddie" along with her family :/ I wonder how they're feeling right now too

I think they avoid talking about her much as a person at all in the documentary, which is a bit strange. And then on top if that... I think her brother and her ex(?)-boyfriend's odd seeming behavior doesn't help much either.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yeah if it did happen exactly as the prosecution has claimed in the past, then I would imagine that Steven would be goading him into participating and helping, and that he would probably have feared (perhaps even rightly) for his own safety if he refused. Then because of his naivety and child-like way of thinking, he wouldn't have known that he could just tell the whole truth and probably get a lot of protection if he said that he was forced into it. He would just think that admitting to it would definitely cause even more trouble.



I think they avoid talking about her much as a person at all in the documentary, which is a bit strange. And then on top if that... I think her brother and her ex(?)-boyfriend's odd seeming behavior doesn't help much either.

Because I guess their aim was to make Steve and Brendan the victims, if they made Teresa a real person that would be harder to do. The series was set up to show that the crime was committed against Steve, you almost forget about the other crime involved here the brutal murder of a young woman (and probable sexual assault/rape)

[Niamh.]

It's also very possible that Brendan genuinely had nothing to do with it but Steve Avery did. Brendans case all rested on his confession where as Steve's was full of physical evidence and he was tried as the sole perpetrator of the crime so unless Steves new attorney has found some new damning evidence that will clear him(as she claims) Brendans conviction overturning shouldn't automatically make Steve seem innocent

[Niamh.]

also, if the state want to appeal, does that mean that they now can't use Brendans confession? Because if that's the case then they have absolutely nothing on him since all the physical evidence linked only Steve to the crime

[MTVN]

According to this:

Prosecutors could decide to retry Dassey, now 26, but they would face enormous hurdles in doing so because the judge ruled Dassey’s confession was involuntary and that confession was the centerpiece of the state’s case against Dassey, who was 16 when Halbach was murdered (read a transcript here).

The State of Wisconsin could also appeal Duffin’s decision. If prosecutors decided to appeal and lost, the State would also then have to decide whether to retry Dassey absent the confession. If the state wins on appeal, there won’t be a retrial because the conviction would stand. Prosecutors have not yet said whether they plan to appeal or retry Dassey

So a retrial seems unlikely. Also seems like this has no impact on Steven really seeing as Brendan's confession wasn't used in his trial

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

According to this:



So a retrial seems unlikely. Also seems like this has no impact on Steven really seeing as Brendan's confession wasn't used in his trial

Thanks Matt, their only option would be to appeal the judges over turning then it looks like.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Because I guess their aim was to make Steve and Brendan the victims, if they made Teresa a real person that would be harder to do. The series was set up to show that the crime was committed against Steve, you almost forget about the other crime involved here the brutal murder of a young woman (and probable sexual assault/rape)

..I was thinking about this when I read about Brendan and how her parents/family must be feeling about the news and also if Steven was acquitted as well with whatever 'new evidence' it's been reported..I just can't even imagine their pain because what then..?...who has been brought to justice for Teresa's murder.../an unimaginable nightmare...

[Shaun]

I agree about the relative ignorance of the life of Teresa in the documentary being a troublesome issue - it was probably my main concern when watching it (that, and the feeling that I was being 'entertained' by a real life murder trial... that it was just a story or something).

Originally Posted by MTVN

So a retrial seems unlikely. Also seems like this has no impact on Steven really seeing as Brendan's confession wasn't used in his trial

In hindsight it seems quite bizarre that they never used Brendan's 'confession' (since it implicated Steve)

[Ammi]

..I've been wondering how it'll be for him/Brendan when he's released...he obviously has great vulnerabilities and prison is all he's known for 10 years since he was 16yrs old...I recall at the end of the series, it being commented on, with the photo that was taken of him at the window in prison, how it was the first time that he'd been seen to smile..almost like prison was a place where he felt 'safer'/more comfortable/less anxious...I wonder what the support will be for him outside of the family and how he'll cope with freedom...

[Niamh.]

Yeah good question Ammi.

Any word about Steve Averys appeal? they had till Aug 29th to lodge it I think

[Paula D]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Plus according to the story Brendan told, they raped and cut Theresas throat in Steves bedroom but not a single piece of blood, skin, hair, body fluids were found in there

This was the bit that completely convinced me that Brendan had nothing to do with it at least. There's absolutely no way that you could cut someone's throat and there not be some blood left in the room, no matter how good a cleaner you are.

I'm fully convinced Brendan didn't do anything except maybe witness his stepfather being involved. I'm still not fully convinced about Stephen, he just didn't come across well but then he had a terrible life even up to that so who would be normal I suppose?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Paula D

This was the bit that completely convinced me that Brendan had nothing to do with it at least. There's absolutely no way that you could cut someone's throat and there not be some blood left in the room, no matter how good a cleaner you are.

I'm fully convinced Brendan didn't do anything except maybe witness his stepfather being involved. I'm still not fully convinced about Stephen, he just didn't come across well but then he had a terrible life even up to that so who would be normal I suppose?

hhhmmm I don't know, i do still think Steven did it. I think at the very least Brendan helped him clean the garage as both their clothes had bleach on them as did the garage and Brendan told them they'd bleached the garage

[Paula D]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I've been wondering how it'll be for him/Brendan when he's released...he obviously has great vulnerabilities and prison is all he's known for 10 years since he was 16yrs old...I recall at the end of the series, it being commented on, with the photo that was taken of him at the window in prison, how it was the first time that he'd been seen to smile..almost like prison was a place where he felt 'safer'/more comfortable/less anxious...I wonder what the support will be for him outside of the family and how he'll cope with freedom...

Very good question Ammi because I didn't get the sense either his mother or step-father had his interests at heart and they weren't very mentally well themselves. He will need a lot of support. God love him I'm not sure he'll get it.

[Paula D]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

hhhmmm I don't know, i do still think Steven did it. I think at the very least Brendan helped him clean the garage as both their clothes had bleach on them as did the garage and Brendan told them they'd bleached the garage

I don't remember the evidence about the bleach but to be fair, the police planted so much evidence a bit of bleach wouldn't be very hard.

How do you explain that no blood evidence was found in the trailer?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Paula D

I don't remember the evidence about the bleach but to be fair, the police planted so much evidence a bit of bleach wouldn't be very hard.

How do you explain that no blood evidence was found in the trailer?

Well, you're just taking as fact that Police actually did plant evidence but that's not actually been proven at all. In fact the TV Show left questions un answered it would seem to make us think that even more, like the Blood in the test tube with hole in it, they made us think that was damning when in fact all those test tubes have those holes in, to get the blood in to them in the first place.

I don't really need to explain why there was no blood in his trailer, I don't know what happened or where anything happened etc, I'm just giving my opinion on who I think most likely committed the crime and most evidence points to Steve Avery. His blood and his DNA were found in her car. Her burned remains were found outside his trailer, it was proven that her body was in fact burned there because her remains were inter twinned with tires that had also been burned there.

and even if you think the body was burned somewhere else and planted there don't you think Steve might have noticed someone dumping a burned body outside his door?