[oddballmisfitsFTW]

Originally Posted by Jords

I really dont understand why Dave has a lot of hate and not more fans, both on the forum he doesnt seem too popular and on Big Mouth and Little Brother he is always spoken about in bad light.

I think hes really likable, doesnt get nasty in drama and is very humorous and quirky. I thought to begin with he was a bit OTT and would push religion in our faces but actually hes quite the opposite and only brings it up now and then and to limits, avoiding anything that may cause offence.

So do people not like Dave because he is a strong believer in God and religion and they see that as a bad thing?

In the Glory!

truth is there are a lot of bigots around

religion and race can easily cause people to be hated even if they are a decent person and on a forum people are anonymous so no need to hide

[Jords]

Originally Posted by vesavius

No, I get that

it was an open question though about why people don't like him and somewhat an attempt to lump us that don't as simple 'religion haters'.

I wanted to underline that this wasnt the case and that I don't like him for very specific reasons to him and not religion in general.

I wasnt trying to lump you all as religion haters, but just opening a gate into finding the reasons why Dave is so disliked. So far I have the tags that he is boring and a gameplanner, both which have no meaning anymore since they are thrown about without much thought anyway (normally used against those you simply 'dont like'). And then you judging him on what he does out of the house and with the church, not basing it on him as a person and what he has done within the BB house, which is what its supposed to be about.

Originally Posted by tintedshadow

i think in general housemates with a certain view on religion do tend to get typecast as lunatics or idiots as if their out of touch with the "real world".. in truth i think he's okay,the drunk off god thing isnt really an issue for me since i think we all get that feeling to a lesser extent (not neccesarily with god or religion though) the only thing that pisses me off is how he takes johns side in rediculing ben until the tables turned on john,then all of a sudden he was all up for backing ben and telling jj he had no social intelligence...

Yes I agree with this, I think they go in and have to earn approval to become liked, whereas others (normally the dummies who know nothing and are unable to have a strong opinion on anything to cause a possible stir) have it much easier gaining fans.

And Jon I do watch LF and find Mario very repetative and still boring..

[DrunkerThanMoses]

Originally Posted by Jords

And Jon I do watch LF and find Mario very repetative and still boring..

You view, its a worng view, but still you view

[Shasown]

Nah I dont hate him because he is religious.


I despise him because he is sheepshagging taff twat.


Seriously, though, if he wants to believe his god gets him drunk, fine, its not a lot different to Corin thinking she looks great in orange skin and and arched painted on eyebrows. I do think it would be hilarious if he won though.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Jords

then you judging him on what he does out of the house and with the church, not basing it on him as a person and what he has done within the BB house, which is what its supposed to be about.

I judge him as a complete package... I cannot seperate the Dave inside from the Dave outside, because the Dave outside is everything he stands for.

Plus, i did say;

I have an issue with his grooming techniques and patronising attitude to others (dismissing Andrews views because 'he is young still').

Look, the bottom line is I don't like the guy. No, to answer your OP, it isnt because of religion in general, it is because of who is is and what he represents an , like I have quoted myself above, how he acts towards others.

I don't think there is a 'supposed to be' right or wrong way for us to make up our mind who we like or dont in that house... It is all offered for us to consume in any way we want to.

[tintedshadow]

Originally Posted by Jords

Yes I agree with this, I think they go in and have to earn approval to become liked, whereas others (normally the dummies who know nothing and are unable to have a strong opinion on anything to cause a possible stir) have it much easier gaining fans.

And Jon I do watch LF and find Mario very repetative and still boring..

agreed,i also find it frustrating when caoimhe and josie both took it upon themselves to judge him as if he had said all gays should die slow,he has his own view but they asked what he believed in which is based on what the bible says,so they ask what the bible says and then took it as if he's a homophobe who wants to burn mario at the steak..

[Jords]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I judge him as a complete package... I cannot seperate the Dave inside from the Dave outside, because the Dave outside is everything he stands for.

Plus, i did say;



Look, the bottom line is I don't like the guy. No, to answer your OP, it isnt because of religion in general, it is because of who is is and what he represents an , like I have quoted myself above, how he acts towards others.

I don't think there is a 'supposed to be' right or wrong way for us to make up our mind who we like or dont in that house... It is all offered for us to consume in any way we want to.

Well I dont think its fair to judge any of the housemates on what they behave like on the outside. And that remark is quite patronising I agree, but I barely ever seem him be disrespectable to anybody.

Quite a bit of meat to tuck into with Dave.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Jords

Well I dont think its fair to judge any of the housemates on what they behave like on the outside. And that remark is quite patronising I agree, but I barely ever seem him be disrespectable to anybody.

Quite a bit of meat to tuck into with Dave.

I thinks that excatly why we will never agree on him Jords

You see BB as a encapsulated experience (I think), I see it just as a house with people in.

If I don't agree with what those people stand for I can in no way support them.

Can I ask you an honest question though? If there was a right wing white supremacy guy in there, who wore a KKK robe and hood in his VT, but didnt mention it in the house and was very funny, or a gang banger, or whoever, that was the same, and you knew that he was gonna go right back to that life when he left (with maybe Ł100,000 in his pocket), would you support him?

[BB_Eye]

In a word, no.

I was actually a fan of Dave a few weeks back, because I thought he was an impeccable gameplayer. I still think that, but have since realised the redeeming features end there.

[Jords]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I thinks that excatly why we will never agree on him Jords

You see BB as a encapsulated experience (I think), I see it just as a house with people in.

If I don't agree with what those people stand for I can in no way support them.

Can I ask you an honest question though? If there was a right wing white supremacy guy in there, who wore a KKK robe and hood in his VT, but didnt mention it in the house and was very funny, or a gang banger, or whoever, that was the same, and you knew that he was gonna go right back to that life when he left (with maybe Ł100,000 in his pocket), would you support him?

No I wouldnt, but that is very extreme, Ill be honest and admit I dont fully understand the whole making profit by the church, probably because Im young. But he works for the church which benefits people, and he is paid for doing so, I dont see the problem in that (or is it not as straight forward? )

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Jords

No I wouldnt, but that is very extreme, Ill be honest and admit I dont fully understand the whole making profit by the church, probably because Im young. But he works for the church which benefits people, and he is paid for doing so, I dont see the problem in that (or is it not as straight forward? )

Well, to me, it isnt any less extreme then having a cult leader peddaling a counterfeit religion that he profits from on there.

The fact that you wouldnt support those other guys is exactly why I won't support him. I disagree with his agenda, philosophy, and outlook.


He dosent work for 'the church', he works for his church (cult). You assume he is 'helping people' but I have looked for a long time and not actually found any records at all of any community action or donations by the New Ecstatics.

[psychtracker]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I have a problem though with Dave because of his leadership of a cult that pedals a counterfeit religion and uses 'hip' language (raves, jacked up, whacked) to deliberatly target the vulnerable and draw them in.

Churches have been using all types of "hip" selling points to attract people since Adam was a boy...Literally! eg. in the 60s the churches started doing "Rock Masses" to attract all the "wayward" hippies!! All Churches (maybe excepting the Quakers and Unitarians), attempt to attract new pple to varying degrees. I've studied a HELL of a lot of "Cult" Leaders and their personalities, and i don't believe (from what i've seen), that Dave would fit into that category, particularly in regards to being on the show for evil ulterior motives.

Originally Posted by vesavius

I have an issue that he makes a profit off his church, seems to have his eye on the monetary rewards, and yet puts nothing back into his community.

Do you know what the worldwide net worth of the Roman Catholic Church is? do you have a problem with them as well?

Originally Posted by vesavius

Well, to me, it isnt any less extreme then having a cult leader peddaling a counterfeit religion that he profits from on there. he fact that you wouldnt support those other guys is exactly why I won't support him. I disagree with his agenda, philosophy, and outlook.

He dosent work for 'the church', he works for his church (cult). You assume he is 'helping people' but I have looked for a long time and not actually found any records at all of any community action or donations by the New Ecstatics.

Why do YOU care so much about digging up dirt on Dave? appears to me that you yourself are on something of a anti-Dave witch hunt. You brought up the analogy of whether someone should support a KKK member being in the house, yet it appears to me (from reading your posts), that you in fact are extremely judgmental and showing a lot of ignorance and intolerance.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Jords

I really dont understand why Dave has a lot of hate and not more fans, both on the forum he doesnt seem too popular and on Big Mouth and Little Brother he is always spoken about in bad light.

I think hes really likable, doesnt get nasty in drama and is very humorous and quirky. I thought to begin with he was a bit OTT and would push religion in our faces but actually hes quite the opposite and only brings it up now and then and to limits, avoiding anything that may cause offence.

So do people not like Dave because he is a strong believer in God and religion and they see that as a bad thing?

In the Glory!

I don't have a problem with David as a person, another human being. In fact I sparred with him and his group HOPING they will drop that cult nonsense and get out of it.
Nothing would make me happier than finding out David grew out of that 'drunken glory' behavior and was successfully carrying on sharing the Gospel and doing well.

In my case (note banner) my actual problem is more with C4 who were asked to include the odd Christian in the house.
Sure they will!
Careful what you pray for - C4 might just give it to you!
Of course I know (we know) they made every point and purpose in deliberately finding a 'nutter'.
Of course they did.
The very intent is that they can tout David as the 'Evangelical' and then have him fall into self-deluding 'drunken glory' ecstasy and become a flubbering drooling fool as much as possible.

What has happened was 'almost hopeful' in that David was also aware of this.
He explained at the beginning they put him in the house wanting to see him be 'drunk out his mind'.
He usually is, he explained. He would have gone into 2 weeks of being high and 'gone' and he knows people wanted that,
but,
he was out of his element and without his usual crowd around him was not falling into these states.
(which btw.. just shows you how socio-psychosomatic it really is).

So in a strange way this has backfired on C4 because for as long as David is NOT falling into 'trance-states' he is quite a likable fellow, quite reasonable, often quite funny (genuinely so), is affable and likable.

I seriously hope that this BB experience might actually end up changing Davids look on life and the Church.
God may well use what is meant to be a 'joke on him' and an attempt to shame Christianity into a good journey and a wake-up and maybe let David get out of that cult?
I hope.

[psychtracker]

Some good points ElProximo.

I try to look at Dave as a human being as well, for all his good and bad traits. I don't live in the UK, so don't really understand the C4 thing. AS far as you wishing he has an "awakening" as a result of being on Telly, well...i think it's really hard to guarantee that as a positive result. As example, lets say post BB he got completely disenfranchised with religion and "fell off the wagon", then went back to drugs and alcohol and died in 5yrs time OR he continued with his faith and set up an orphanage and really did help out a lot of poor people. I'm really just bringing that up as a parallel because seems a lot of people are suspicious of his evil intentions, but "maybe" he has mostly good intentions. I just think it's all very difficult to quantify... btw. i'm agnostic, i don't have any religious cross to bare.

[BlueViolet]

Dave is entitled to his own beliefs. I do think they're stupid (not the believing in God part, but the emphasis on miracles to prove it), but that doesn't bother me too much. I found his reaction to Keeley asking how he got paid a little questionable...especially with videos of him pretending to be in a wheelchair on youtube.

However, I mainly dislike him because I think he's a snake in the grass. He claims to love everyone, but he bitches more others more than the average HM. He is also very calculating -- claiming that he is disturbed by Caoimhe's "negative behavior", for instance, when really he is just rallying the votes against her. He doesn't dare say a thing to her face.

Oh, I also think he brings out the worst in Ben. It seems like they used to have regular conversations sometimes, but now it's all bitch, bitch, bitch.

[psychtracker]

Originally Posted by BlueViolet

Oh, I also think he brings out the worst in Ben. It seems like they used to have regular conversations sometimes, but now it's all bitch, bitch, bitch.

Do you ever watch the Live Feed? i've watched it for about the last 2 weeks and FAR AND AWAY the biggest bitching sessions are conducted by Josie, JJ & Caoimhe...they sometimes go on for hours!!! At least when Dave and Ben do it they inject a bit of humour into the situation! Seems to me that if Dave has opinion about another HM he's this evil backstabbing gameplaying mastermind, yet, if he refused to ever make a comment about any other HM, i bet the same people would brand him "boring", or avoiding controversy...the bloke can't win!

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by psychtracker

...i think it's really hard to guarantee that as a positive result. As example, lets say post BB he got completely disenfranchised with religion and "fell off the wagon", then went back to drugs and alcohol and died in 5yrs time OR he continued with his faith and set up an orphanage and really did help out a lot of poor people.

I see what you're saying and I guess I can only hope for the best. David is actually a reasonably bright guy who 'could' be a great representative in the Church and be a great Pastor.
I think that has to be the most frustrating thing - someone who really is 'so close' but is hung up on this bizarre aberrant nonsense.

Yeah.. it does make me wonder what would happen if he dropped the 'drunken glory'. It seems to me he hasn't overcome addiction (just replaced it) and then what does he do?

*C4 (Channel Four) is a notoriously antichristian television station in the UK which essentially promotes 'minorities' by shaming, degrading and creating propaganda against whatever they deem is 'white, christian, traditional,'.
Along those lines.

[MeMyselfAndI]

well he is a hypocrit
he told mario to go in naked!!! between john james and ben...
then if keeva goes in a bath with her top on its exetremely disrispectful and hurtfull to him!

he TOLD mario to go naked between john and ben thats sooo much worse but noooo

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by MeMyselfandI

well he is a hypocrit
he told mario to go in naked!!! between john james and ben...
then if keeva goes in a bath with her top on its exetremely disrispectful and hurtfull to him!

he TOLD mario to go naked between john and ben thats sooo much worse but noooo

Easily the WORST 'hypocrite hunting' yet.
David does believe men can be naked in front of other men and this, having no sexual implications, becomes funny or stupid or whatever else.

David does believe that there is sexual consequences in women being naked around men.
He was worried it caused sexual tensions, temptations, evokes problematic emotions/physiological results etc.

There is ZERO 'hypocrisy' in any of that.

It is also why most societies, your society, our rules and standards have male and female toilets, separate showers, different changing rooms. Why men are arrested if they expose themselves to women in public, why there are regulations about 'strip clubs' or so on.
It is not 'hypocrisy'.
Even if you disagree or have some different believe about this - you haven't found a 'hypocrit'

[psychtracker]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

I think that has to be the most frustrating thing - someone who really is 'so close' but is hung up on this bizarre aberrant nonsense.

Yeah well, humans believe in all sorts of weird stuff, no point wasting energy getting frustrated coz it's never gonna change...

Originally Posted by ElProximo

*C4 (Channel Four) is a notoriously antichristian television station in the UK which essentially promotes 'minorities' by shaming, degrading and creating propaganda against whatever they deem is 'white, christian, traditional,'.
Along those lines.

Thanks for clearing that up, i was unaware.

[as90]

They dislike him because people love to rebel against authority. He's not perfect and is still also learning but morally he's head over heals above anyone else in the house.

[Crimson Dynamo]

He was being sanctimonious for effect. All me love looking at tits. he was pretending to be all "married and responsible" when really he was thinking about nailing keevaaaar

[rosieb]

I dislike Dave because of his complete double standards - not very christian like to be backstabbing and bitching about a person behind their back is it.

[as90]

Originally Posted by rosieb

I dislike Dave because of his complete double standards - not very christian like to be backstabbing and bitching about a person behind their back is it.

And you think Christians are not real people, you have no clue do you, you should to go along to a Christian meeting before you can properly judge and read some of the Bible. You honestly think Christians are not allowed to sit and talk about people as he is doing. I think he is trying to reach out to people by finding their level. Your perceiving this are being hypocritical whereas he sees it as necessary to get his message across.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by as90

And you think Christians are not real people, you have no clue do you, you should to go along to a Christian meeting before you can properly judge and read some of the Bible. You honestly think Christians are not allowed to sit and talk about people as he is doing. I think he is trying to reach out to people by finding their level. Your perceiving this are being hypocritical whereas he sees it as necessary to get his message across.

A lot of simple people have this kind of thinking:

Christians claim to be perfect. If you see a Christian being imperfect then you have proven they are wrong. Therefore you don't need to explain anything you have ever done. Its all 'canceled out'. God is not real.

In fact I have to give David credit due for one thing he has properly represented:
Christians are not perfect. Just forgiven. Church is a 'school for sinners' and not a 'sanctuary for saints'.
This is our Gospel.
Christ IS perfect. We are not.