[Mystic Mock]

I think im going to be sick.

[joeysteele]

Firstly bad example I used in that using a funfair mirror syndrome, I had a cousin who was heading towards this awful condition and she said if she looked in a mirror all she could see was someone very overweight,she used the funfair mirror thing it was not on my part a poor attempt to joke about the situation.
However the bulk of anorexics do not actually know they are too skinny,many don't even believe its a problem that may in time greatly harm them or be fatal for them.

Anyway,Pyramid summed it all up far better than myself, thankfully my Cousin got help and was sorted and is fine now.

I agree with jedward fever that no one should be made fun of whether way too thin or too obese. I would go further to say even those who we see on TV documentaries who are massively obese don't warrant being made fun of.

The picture posted at the start of this thread is a very sad one, these people need understanding and limitless support to help them identify their problem and seek help before its too late.

[Claymores]

cool JF + joey - I just feel that to pidgenhole sufferers of this mental illness with people who are overwight is wrong. I took exception to Livia's idea

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Much more attractive than arrogant self-absorbed ignorant Jordan types.

Now lostalex, that really is no way to refer to a fellow forum member: that's not nice. Oh wait.....that wasn't quite what you meant was it!!. (sorry, had to be done)

Originally Posted by lostalex

body dysmorphia is not like a fun house mirror. it's more that you focus on a specific part of your body as a guage, instead of seeing yourself objectively. For instance, a jewish person might focus on their nose, and be obsessed about their nose being too big, because of stereotypes, or a black person might focus on the colour of their skin, and focus only on how dark they are, or a woman might focus on her breasts and how big they are, because society creates stereotypes for us all, and in some cases, with body dysmorphia, we focus on one part of the body, one aspect, above all other aspects.

Anorexics know they are too skinny, but they often focus on one part of the body that they don't like and try to fix it, just like dark girls will over use skin bleach, or jewish girls would obsess over a nose job.

It's not as simple as saying it's like a carnival mirror, it's nothing like a carnival mirror.

It's more like a magnifying glass.

I'll beg to differ on the BIB. Anorexics don't often focus on one part of their body. There is a huge part of the illness that surround the issue on 'control' - as well as anorexic person seeing a very distorted vision/reflection of their body when they look in a mirror. What THEY see, is simply NOT how they are. In that sense: it is exactly as Joeysteele described - the distortion of image viewed by the anorexic person - compared to the real image of the anorexic person as seen by others.

Originally Posted by Livia

I find it interesting how someone who is anorexic gets so much more sympathy than someone who is obese. In many cases they are similar in their psychosis, in that both have a freaked-out relationship with food and suffer from life-threatening mental illness. The anorexic though, is tiny, pixie like and more socially acceptable than someone who is obese. Obese people are fair game it seems for anyone who wants to have a pop at them and they are ridiculed mercilessly by society. People's heart bleeds for the tiny anorexic, while assuming the obese person is just greedy and lazy. Surely both are mentally ill and deserve understanding and treatment?

Originally Posted by Claymores

It does occur to me that obesity can be a long-term lifestyle choice in many cases, whereas starving yourself to death is a form of body dysmorphia which requires sympathy and intervention for the mental illness. It implies conscious angst rather than a love of food and fun over years. The two are incomparable and to mention the two extremes in the same breath is silly.

Nobody is going to stop the fatty having the chocolate pudding + enjoying themself at the dinner table while he/she engages with everyone..........I believe it is less torrible if another is not eating, having food issues and/or 'doing a Diana' down the toilet pan in mental anguish.

I have to disagree with Litvia I'm afraid, and agree with Claymores: partly for the reasons Clays gave: but also, from the obese person's point of view: it can take many many years to get to such obesity without any immediate damage. The anorexic on the other hand, this can take hold and be a real threat to lasting damage to organs, and threat to life - in a far quicker period of time- in comparison to the 'average' obese/ morbidly obese person - who can take many years to reach the size they are before real lasting damage (or the probability of death) becomes a real threat.

That (I think) is one of the main reasons there is a very different 'sympathetic' view given to anorexics that doesn't apply to those obese.

These twins are not the best example of what I am trying to explain: we have read all sorts of stories about young teenagers suffering from organ failure and dying through anorexia - the death rate for obese teenagers simply doesn't come close. That's the diffference: Anorexia can be fatal, very quickly.

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Firstly bad example I used in that using a funfair mirror syndrome, I had a cousin who was heading towards this awful condition and she said if she looked in a mirror all she could see was someone very overweight,she used the funfair mirror thing it was not on my part a poor attempt to joke about the situation.
However the bulk of anorexics do not actually know they are too skinny,many don't even believe its a problem that may in time greatly harm them or be fatal for them.

.

I feel that your example of 'funfair mirrors' to highlight the distorted view as seen by anorexics was actually a very simple but highly effective and explanatory example.

Originally Posted by Claymores

cool JF + joey - I just feel that to pidgenhole sufferers of this mental illness with people who are overwight is wrong.

Totally agree ... for the reasons I've mentioned futher up in my post here.

As bad as it is for the anorexic: the feeling of complete and utter helplessness - not to mention frustration - angst, hurt etc for those who love them: that must be one of the most awful things to watch: knowing that you really can't do anything much other than be there, help them as much as they allow / want and be there to support.

[Ammi]

I knew someone with anorexia years ago. She was a beautiful girl with a fantastic figure. Her parents had high expectations of her and she didn't have the same plans for her future that they did and felt as though she was being pushed into a direction she didn't want to go. When she stopped eating, for her, It wasn't about how she looked, it was about taking some control in her life. She said if she could use such self control in not eating the things that gave her pleasure, she felt more powerful and in control. She didn't think about or blocked out what her body started to look like because she wanted to keep that control. In fact she always avoided even looking in the mirror. She was ok in the end but it was after many years and a very supportive partner. Her parents however couldn't help because the more they tried to encourage her to eat, the more she felt they were trying to take away her control so she resisted more.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by rhino

I knew someone with anorexia years ago. She was a beautiful girl with a fantastic figure. Her parents had high expectations of her and she didn't have the same plans for her future that they did and felt as though she was being pushed into a direction she didn't want to go. When she stopped eating, for her, It wasn't about how she looked, it was about taking some control in her life. She said if she could use such self control in not eating the things that gave her pleasure, she felt more powerful and in control. She didn't think about or blocked out what her body started to look like because she wanted to keep that control. In fact she always avoided even looking in the mirror. She was ok in the end but it was after many years and a very supportive partner. Her parents however couldn't help because the more they tried to encourage her to eat, the more she felt they were trying to take away her control so she resisted more.

Yeah this seems quite common tbh. People assume its all about how they look, when its not in all cases.

[Ammi]

I knew someone with anorexia years ago. She was a beautiful girl with a fantastic figure. Her parents had high expectations of her and she didn't have the same plans for her future that they did and felt as though she was being pushed into a direction she didn't want to go. When she stopped eating, for her, It wasn't about how she looked, it was about taking some control in her life. She said if she could use such self control in not eating the things that gave her pleasure, she felt more powerful and in control. She didn't think about or blocked out what her body started to look like because she wanted to keep that control. In fact she always avoided even looking in the mirror. She was ok in the end but it was after many years and a very supportive partner. Her parents however couldn't help because the more they tried to encourage her to eat, the more she felt they were trying to take away her control so she resisted more.

[Vicky.]

However pidgeonholing all overweight people as just people who are just greedy and do not need help or have an illness is fine...

[joeysteele]

Thank you very much indeed Pyramid, I was speaking from what I had seen with my Cousin and although cases obviously vary she,having been anorexic would have agreed with my interpetration of her condition at that time.

You however,I do think made the point very effectively and clearly with much greater understanding of it.
It is an awful condition/illness to have and it's crushingly painful too for loved ones to see happening,however at the time,my Cousin wore baggy jumpers etc to appear to have more weight than she actually had so hid it for a good while before the problem was realised.

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Thank you very much indeed Pyramid, I was speaking from what I had seen with my Cousin and although cases obviously vary she,having been anorexic would have agreed with my interpetration of her condition at that time.

You however,I do think made the point very effectively and clearly with much greater understanding of it.
It is an awful condition/illness to have and it's crushingly painful too for loved ones to see happening,however at the time,my Cousin wore baggy jumpers etc to appear to have more weight than she actually had so hid it for a good while before the problem was realised.

Agreed joey - Pyr put the points across - wishes to yer family

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Claymores

Agreed joey - Pyr put the points across - wishes to yer family

Thank you Claymores, all Best Wishes to you and yours too.

[Beastie]

The dad will feel so guilty and mortified. The girls are blaming him for the start of their anorexia. Because he was having a conversation with their mum saying they have hips! Stupid girls. If they die, everyone will think it is their dad's fault. When it's only them to blame.

Anorexia is also a self loathing illness. If an anorexic dies they only have themselves to blame.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Beastie

The dad will feel so guilty and mortified. The girls are blaming him for the start of their anorexia. Because he was having a conversation with their mum saying they have hips! Stupid girls. If they die, everyone will think it is their dad's fault. When it's only them to blame.

Anorexia is also a self loathing illness. If an anorexic dies they only have themselves to blame.

Pretty blunt view :/ It's not like they can help it.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Beastie

The dad will feel so guilty and mortified. The girls are blaming him for the start of their anorexia. Because he was having a conversation with their mum saying they have hips! Stupid girls. If they die, everyone will think it is their dad's fault. When it's only them to blame.

Anorexia is also a self loathing illness. If an anorexic dies they only have themselves to blame.

wow.

[cub]

I wouldn't label people mentaly ill just because they're obese. I would say they're likely to be unhappy and turn to food as a comfort, but I think we should be careful not to compare anorexia with obesity and suggest that they are different ends of the same thing.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by cub

I wouldn't label people mentaly ill just because they're obese. I would say they're likely to be unhappy and turn to food as a comfort, but I think we should be careful not to compare anorexia with obesity and suggest that they are different ends of the same thing.

The National Centre for Eating Disorders disagrees. People who have a destructive relationship with food suffer in many ways. The fact that some of them look like little waifs garners them more sympathy.

[cub]

Originally Posted by Livia

The National Centre for Eating Disorders disagrees. People who have a destructive relationship with food suffer in many ways. The fact that some of them look like little waifs garners them more sympathy.

That's not what I'm saying. I said we shouldn't slap a label of 'mental illness' on people who are obese, or suggest that people that turn to food as a comfort is the other side of the coin - and therefore the same - as anorexia.

Weight gain is often based on being unhappy and the use of food as a happiness-booster. Anorexia, as I understand it, is more of a control issue.

Obesity is food-led. Anorexia is body shape-led.

Most overweight people feel unhappy when they look in the mirror. Anorexics want to be thin. Obese people do not want to be fat.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by cub

That's not what I'm saying. I said we shouldn't slap a label of 'mental illness' on people who are obese, or suggest that people that turn to food as a comfort is the other side of the coin - and therefore the same - as anorexia.

Weight gain is often based on being unhappy and the use of food as a happiness-booster. Anorexia, as I understand it, is more of a control issue.

Obesity is food-led. Anorexia is body shape-led.

Most overweight people feel unhappy when they look in the mirror. Anorexics want to be thin. Obese people do not want to be fat.

A very intelligent point, one that I happen to agree with you on.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by cub

That's not what I'm saying. I said we shouldn't slap a label of 'mental illness' on people who are obese, or suggest that people that turn to food as a comfort is the other side of the coin - and therefore the same - as anorexia.

Weight gain is often based on being unhappy and the use of food as a happiness-booster. Anorexia, as I understand it, is more of a control issue.

Obesity is food-led. Anorexia is body shape-led.

Most overweight people feel unhappy when they look in the mirror. Anorexics want to be thin. Obese people do not want to be fat.

Not all anorexia is body shaped led. As I said in my previous post, the person I know who suffered from anorexia wanted to have control over something that was really important to her life - food. She couldn't bear to look in the mirror because she didn't want to face what she was doing to herself. She wasn't searching for a certain body shape - that didn't even come into it. I'm not saying this is always the case, because I'm sure in some cases the quest for the size zero does sometimes trigger off the illness. I'm sure that obese people also hate to look in the mirror, for the same reasons, they hate what they are doing to themselves. I think one displays an extreme lack of control and the other an extreme control to the point of deprivation. They are both obsessive but at opposite sides of the spectrum and both stem from emotional problems. I do agree that the obese is not viewed in as much a sympathetic way as the anorexic and yet they are both equally unhealthy and both deserve the same understanding

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by cub

That's not what I'm saying. I said we shouldn't slap a label of 'mental illness' on people who are obese, or suggest that people that turn to food as a comfort is the other side of the coin - and therefore the same - as anorexia.

Weight gain is often based on being unhappy and the use of food as a happiness-booster. Anorexia, as I understand it, is more of a control issue.

Obesity is food-led. Anorexia is body shape-led.

Most overweight people feel unhappy when they look in the mirror. Anorexics want to be thin. Obese people do not want to be fat.

Excellent post cub - explained in easy to understand language but essentially, in a way that really gives credence to why anorexia / anorexics are indeed taken more seriously with regards to the problem.

Originally Posted by Beastie

When it's only them to blame.

Anorexia is also a self loathing illness. If an anorexic dies they only have themselves to blame.

I've read some utter absurb and posts full of complete drivel on here - I regret to say Beastie: your post here beats every single one of them hands down on the 'what a lot of complete nonsense' front.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by cub

That's not what I'm saying. I said we shouldn't slap a label of 'mental illness' on people who are obese, or suggest that people that turn to food as a comfort is the other side of the coin - and therefore the same - as anorexia.

Weight gain is often based on being unhappy and the use of food as a happiness-booster. Anorexia, as I understand it, is more of a control issue.

Obesity is food-led. Anorexia is body shape-led.

Most overweight people feel unhappy when they look in the mirror. Anorexics want to be thin. Obese people do not want to be fat.

Not all Anorexics are mentally ill either,just look at some of the tv stars that only go Anorexic because the writers of these shows basically tell them they have to lose weight to get more roles.

I agree with Livia that Overweight people and Anorexics should be getting the same sympathy and should be treated as seriously.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Not all Anorexics are mentally ill either,just look at some of the tv stars that only go Anorexic because the writers of these shows basically tell them they have to lose weight to get more roles.

I agree with Livia that Overweight people and Anorexics should be getting the same sympathy and should be treated as seriously.

It's not that they 'go anorexic'; they lose a lot of weight. Stupidly. I don't think you can compare this malarkey of starving yourself for a role with what is a serious medical condition. It's no less alarming, but it's a different phenomenon.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Not all Anorexics are mentally ill either,just look at some of the tv stars that only go Anorexic because the writers of these shows basically tell them they have to lose weight to get more roles.

I agree with Livia that Overweight people and Anorexics should be getting the same sympathy and should be treated as seriously.

I think you raise a point there jf,in that when not celebrities generally most(not all) people are likely happy with how they are and look, once in the public eye,often reviews and promoters etc comments can cause someone to look at themselves.

I recall reading and watching the story of Karen Carpenter (The Carpenters duo) who it seemed was fine until stardom came, I forget the wording but after a live show a reviewer praised the duo but described Karen as Richards plump ( or some other word) Sister.
After reading that she became obsessed with her weight and getting it off, so much so that naturally her health suffered greatly. It is believed the reason she died so young too was from effects and complications of her anorexia.

So you make a valid point, in that once in the spotlight,what others say carelessly can end up with someone adopting a very unhealthy lifestyle and develop life threatening eating disorders.

I know very little about this person as fact but read a bit about her and also after being called 'tubby' a singer who was a child star, Lena Zavaroni, also went down the drastically losing weight anorexic path and also I believe died very young.

[Zippy]

I don't think you can generalise about either obesity or anorexia. I'm sure both are caused by, often similar, deep rooted issues. They just manifest themselves differently.

I don't even see a need to compare them. I guess obesity is just more visible and common so incurrs more ridicule. Both are certainly a vicious circle that are extremely difficult to break out of. Food is so essential to our lives in so many ways. For many obese people its the only comfort they have in life.

[MTVN]

I suppose an anorexic appears a lot more vulnerable than an obese person, I've certainly never considered obese people on the same level as an anorexic. In a way it makes sense but I do still think it's hard to feel sympathy for someone who is hugely overweight when there are millions of people dying of starvation, or havent got enough to eat