[Kizzy]

There are always procedures, they just didn't follow them.
http://www.npia.police.uk/en/docs/Mental_ill_Health.pdf

[Ammi]

I've had a flick through Kizzy and didn't see anything apprpriate to this case and the boy being in 'meltdown'...do you mind copy and pasting it on the thread..I'm not sure what difference it will make in terms of how the officers handled this ad they were not attempting to communicate with an autistic child..they were trying to prevent him from harming himself or others...but maybe it has some guidance to that..I would be interested in reading if it does..it's interesting to know what trainig is given in this area
..it's a huge document and you know where to look...thanks

[Livia]

The boy jumped into the water despite not being able to swim. He was there with people who are paid carers. If anyone didn't follow procedure in the first instance, I would assume it was the carers. Reports say that an officer tried to grab the boys sleeve as he ran toward the water but was unable to stop him because of his large build and his momentum. I'm guessing if he was of a large big build he would have been particularly difficult to restrain if he was distressed.

The police are applying for leave to appeal. I'm not surprised. Nothing's black and white, and nothing's over till it's over.

[joeysteele]

I guess, it seems to me anyway that this unfortunate incident shows that the people who did have the information as to this boy's condition and also who should have been there caring for and protecting him were nowhere to be seen or heard at the time.

Furthermore it appears to me the Police acted as they would in situations such as what happened but that they alone are now expected by all and sundry,even the boy's official carers,(for want of a better description),to be social workers, doctors,nurses and even psychics.

[Kizzy]

No i dont have the time, the case has been heard and the professionals with the information have made a decision.
We may not always agree with it.... but the law is the law and no one is above it even those who have a duty to uphold it.

[Livia]

The law is the law, and the appeals process exists for a reason.

[Kizzy]

It is a waste of public funds, and makes a mockery of not only the Met but the British Justice System.
The case was heard and a decision made.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kizzy

It is a waste of public funds, and makes a mockery of not only the Met but the British Justice System.
The case was heard and a decision made.

So you think the justice system could be improved by removing the right to appeal. Interesting... You have more confidence in judges and the system as a whole than I do.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

So you think the justice system could be improved by removing the right to appeal. Interesting... You have more confidence in judges and the system as a whole than I do.

Livia please dont manipulate my words its rude. Nowhere on my post does it suggest that.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Livia please dont manipulate my words its rude. Nowhere on my post does it suggest that.

It seems you don't have the monopoly on rudeness then. I said the appeals process exists for a reason, and you said "It is a waste of public funds, and makes a mockery of not only the Met but the British Justice System. The case was heard and a decision made." Does that not mean you are against them appealing? Because it is a waste of public funds and a decision has been made? If that's not what you mean, what exactly do you mean?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kizzy

It is a waste of public funds, and makes a mockery of not only the Met but the British Justice System.
The case was heard and a decision made.

Personally, I think it's not a good use of public funds to pay the compensation as oppose to..say using it to fund some proper training in these specific cases..and I think this case was 'unique'. If the police feel that this court decision is wrong then I do think they should take it to appeal..not merely to 'clear' them...but to create awareness..I'm sure that is best for everyone..especially the young man himself
As I say..a 'unique' case and under the circumstances, I think the police did as well as they could..as the judge said..and if there was any unessacary 'restraint'..I'm sure it was from ignorance of how to handle it differently...the verdict seems harsh and..pointless tbh...and it's a shame because we need good policing in this country....and I don't see any bad policing here....which the judge stated too

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

Personally, I think it's not a good use of public funds to pay the compensation as oppose to..say using it to fund some proper training in these specific cases..and I think this case was 'unique'. If the police feel that this court decision is wrong then I do think they should take it to appeal..not merely to 'clear' them...but to create awareness..I'm sure that is best for everyone..especially the young man himself
As I say..a 'unique' case and under the circumstances, I think the police did as well as they could..as the judge said..and if there was any unessacary 'restraint'..I'm sure it was from ignorance of how to handle it differently...the verdict seems harsh and..pointless tbh...and it's a shame because we need good policing in this country....and I don't see any bad policing here....which the judge stated too

officers attending the incident were acting as they genuinely thought best, their responses were "over-hasty and ill-informed".

Can you imagine for a moment if all officers did this?
In the volitile situations some officers find themselves in...It is dangerous to behave like this, and is not what officers are trained to do.

[Kizzy]

It is a waste of public funds, and makes a mockery of not only the Met but the British Justice System.
The case was heard and a decision made.

[thesheriff443]

mistakes where made on both sides,just learn from it and move on,

[Kizzy]

im not sure where i have ever been rude to you, or why you appear to be attacking me for my stance on this issue.
I am aware of what i said. I stand by the fact it is a waste of public funds in my opinion in this case. It does NOT however mean i am against the appeals process, or that the British Justice system would be improved if it were to be removed.
If you wish to quote me quote the things i say, and not your interpretation of them please.

[thesheriff443]

this has cleary affected this guy,suffering post traumatic stress,just beacuse the police where doing what they think is right he can just wistle!
a doctor makes a decision that he thinks is right but the patient is hurt,does that person also get nothing beacuse the doctor was doing what he thought was right

[Ammi]

I don't think there's anything I can say..that I haven't already...and it certainly seems that everyone tried their best..but the situation and the distress of the boy was obviously such that the restraints were used..and that is unfortunate..not only for him..but the police..and the staff caring for him. In some cases a financial compensation is appropriate..Imo..not in this..it feels like an opportunity lost to raise awareness..and that is unfortunate for any future similar potential cases.
There's nothing else I can add to this thread..and I'm tired

[MTVN]

I think the Police should swallow their pride and accept the courts judgement, and instead of continuing to use public money in dragging out this case (if that is how it's being funded?) they should be more concerned with training their officers in how to deal with situations like this, to avoid it happening again

[InOne]

Wasn't there that doc a few months ago about the lengths police go to protect their own? The ones who make "mistakes" never seem to have to face the consequences

[Niamh.]

Ok, threads going a bit off topic now, I'm going to close it and clean it

[lostalex]

I dunno why my post got washed, i thought it was appropriate and relevant...??

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I dunno why my post got washed, i thought it was appropriate and relevant...??

It was too beautiful for this thread Alex :')

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It was too beautiful for this thread Alex :')

*blushes*

[Kizzy]

Ooh its all shiny now
Here is the response from the National Autistic Society.


The Metropolitan Police subjected a teenager with autism to degrading treatment, a High Court judge ruled today.

The teenager, who has autism, learning disabilities and epilepsy, was forced into handcuffs and leg restraints during a school trip to Acton Swimming Baths in London in September 2008.

The police officers involved were guilty of assault and battery, unlawful disability discrimination, false imprisonment and multiple breaches of the Human Rights Act, the judge ruled.

"This judgement confirms that in this case the police lacked the understanding and flexibility needed to adapt to a person’s autism and subjected a vulnerable young person to inhuman and degrading treatment", said The National Autistic Society's Director of Education, Jane Vaughan. "Autism training is not routinely provided as part of police training in the UK despite the fact that the condition affects 1 in 100 people."

"People with disabilities look to the police to protect them", says Jane, "and it's vital that their needs and behaviours are understood and accounted for. Autism training should be standard in officer training to ensure that policemen and women understand the needs of this section of society thereby ensuring that disturbing cases like this never happen again

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Ooh its all shiny now
Here is the response from the National Autistic Society.


The Metropolitan Police subjected a teenager with autism to degrading treatment, a High Court judge ruled today.

The teenager, who has autism, learning disabilities and epilepsy, was forced into handcuffs and leg restraints during a school trip to Acton Swimming Baths in London in September 2008.

The police officers involved were guilty of assault and battery, unlawful disability discrimination, false imprisonment and multiple breaches of the Human Rights Act, the judge ruled.

"This judgement confirms that in this case the police lacked the understanding and flexibility needed to adapt to a person’s autism and subjected a vulnerable young person to inhuman and degrading treatment", said The National Autistic Society's Director of Education, Jane Vaughan. "Autism training is not routinely provided as part of police training in the UK despite the fact that the condition affects 1 in 100 people."

"People with disabilities look to the police to protect them", says Jane, "and it's vital that their needs and behaviours are understood and accounted for. Autism training should be standard in officer training to ensure that policemen and women understand the needs of this section of society thereby ensuring that disturbing cases like this never happen again

The bit in bold should, imo, clear the police officers in question though. I know I wouldn't know how to correctly deal with a severely autistic person in that situation. Like Ammi already said, wouldn't the money have been better spent training officers in how to deal with situations like these in the future?