[arista]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I agree with vicky, anyone convicted of serious assault on a minor should be sterilised.

I also agree with Vicky.
on that.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I agree with vicky, anyone convicted of serious assault on a minor should be sterilised.

You do realise what you're saying right?

What if a case was misjudged and a person was sterilised because it appeared that they were guilty of an assault on a minor, but it wasn't actually true? A whole bodily function and ability to carry on their family would've been snatched away. They'd never be able to have a child of their own and thats all through a failing of the legal system. How would you help them? How could you even begin to consider how to compensate them for such a thing? Its just wrong to my mind..

Its an absolutely terrible thing to consider in my opinion and the fact that it was openly used by the Nazis against the disabled for example on serves to highlight that.

[Jack_]

Wow, you lot are certainly creating some threads that are more than likely going to rile me up (this and that smacking thread).

Anyway...no I don't agree with forced sterilisation of women. It's inhumane and not the kind of way we should be going about things. Human rights are a fundamental element of a civilised society, and they should never, ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, be compromised for any reason (I am of course referring to the serious ones). They should be set in stone and nobody should be above them, and we should count ourselves very lucky that we have them and that we live in a society where on the whole, people's human rights are abided by in the eyes of the law and justice.

If we lived in a society where we could freely tamper with human rights and compromise with certain cases willy nilly, we'd be leaving ourselves open to all kinds of abuse. Sounds just like a fascist government policy to me, not the kind of place I want to be living. As disgusting as this video was (from the parts I watched), and as infuriated as I get at certain crimes, at the very basic level we should always ensure that the human rights of all involved are upheld.

Capital punishment, torture etc are all disgusting concepts that need to be abolished as soon as possible, and we really don't need to start going down this kind of road. We want to try and aim to get to a stage where there is practically no violence or inhumane treatment whatsoever (especially coming from those in control of the law), and things like this would only promote such behaviour if you ask me. Almost hypocritical in fact.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Wow, you lot are certainly creating some threads that are more than likely going to rile me up (this and that smacking thread).

Anyway...no I don't agree with forced sterilisation of women. It's inhumane and not the kind of way we should be going about things. Human rights are a fundamental element of a civilised society, and they should never, ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, be compromised for any reason (I am of course referring to the serious ones). They should be set in stone and nobody should be above them, and we should count ourselves very lucky that we have them and that we live in a society where on the whole, people's human rights are abided by in the eyes of the law and justice.

If we lived in a society where we could freely tamper with human rights and compromise with certain cases willy nilly, we'd be leaving ourselves open to all kinds of abuse. Sounds just like a fascist government policy to me, not the kind of place I want to be living. As disgusting as this video was (from the parts I watched), and as infuriated as I get at certain crimes, at the very basic level we should always ensure that the human rights of all involved are upheld.

Capital punishment, torture etc are all disgusting concepts that need to be abolished as soon as possible, and we really don't need to start going down this kind of road. We want to try and aim to get to a stage where there is practically no violence or inhumane treatment whatsoever (especially coming from those in control of the law), and things like this would only promote such behaviour if you ask me. Almost hypocritical in fact.

Including those of any future children of convicted abusers?...

[Jords]

I disagree with forced sterilisation because like others have mentioned its open to abuse and similarly to capital punishment what if they have a false positive? Its irreversible and somebodys life could potentially be ruined.

These sort of people that some would deem "deservable" of it should be locked up for a very long time that they wont have chance to get pregnant anyway.

[Jords]

Also what in the cases of these offenders that are already pregnant? Would that deem them deservable of a forced abortion?

Its just not something I think should be explored because all sorts of ethical issues are flung about.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jords

Also what in the cases of these offenders that are already pregnant? Would that deem them deservable of a forced abortion?

Its just not something I think should be explored because all sorts of ethical issues are flung about.

I don't think they're suggesting any child from them should be killed but they should be prevented from conceiving full stop.

[lostalex]

i think it's okay to sterilize people, but i think their eggs or sperm should be taken and frozen so that in the future they could stil have possibility of using them.

Actually i'd like to see a world in the future where all people were sterilized, and the government then could say who could procreate or not. I think after we are born sperm and eggs should be taken from all boys and girls, and then we are all sterilized, and then we should have to apply for some sort of permit to actually use them.

The idea that any idiot with a dick or vagina can make babies now is a huge problem. i don't think that procreation is a human right.

[Jords]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i think it's okay to sterilize people, but i think their eggs or sperm should be taken and frozen so that in the future they could stil have possibility of using them.

Actually i'd like to see a world in the future where all people were sterilized, and the government then could say who could procreate or not. I think after we are born sperm and eggs should be taken from all boys and girls, and then we are all sterilized, and then we should have to apply for some sort of permit to actually use them.

The idea that any idiot with a dick or vagina can make babies now is a huge problem. i don't think that procreation is a human right.

wow

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jords

wow

elaborate.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i think it's okay to sterilize people, but i think their eggs or sperm should be taken and frozen so that in the future they could stil have possibility of using them.

Actually i'd like to see a world in the future where all people were sterilized, and the government then could say who could procreate or not. I think after we are born sperm and eggs should be taken from all boys and girls, and then we are all sterilized, and then we should have to apply for some sort of permit to actually use them.

The idea that any idiot with a dick or vagina can make babies now is a huge problem. i don't think that procreation is a human right.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i think it's okay to sterilize people, but i think their eggs or sperm should be taken and frozen so that in the future they could stil have possibility of using them.

Actually i'd like to see a world in the future where all people were sterilized, and the government then could say who could procreate or not. I think after we are born sperm and eggs should be taken from all boys and girls, and then we are all sterilized, and then we should have to apply for some sort of permit to actually use them.

The idea that any idiot with a dick or vagina can make babies now is a huge problem. i don't think that procreation is a human right.

Are you ****ing serious?

Sounds like some fascist dictatorship which is attempting to engineer some sort of 'super race'. Having flashbacks to the 1940's here.

[arista]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i think it's okay to sterilize people, but i think their eggs or sperm should be taken and frozen so that in the future they could stil have possibility of using them.

Actually i'd like to see a world in the future where all people were sterilized, and the government then could say who could procreate or not. I think after we are born sperm and eggs should be taken from all boys and girls, and then we are all sterilized, and then we should have to apply for some sort of permit to actually use them.

The idea that any idiot with a dick or vagina can make babies now is a huge problem. i don't think that procreation is a human right.

That will never Happen, though

[Mrluvaluva]

Oh my. I'm just not getting into that one..

[Vicky.]

I dont think its fair to say everyone 'convicted' of anything. Some paedophiles get convicted on only the words of the victims.

Thats why I said earlier on only if it can be actually proven beyond all reasonable doubt...and that it would be very much on a case by case basis.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I dont think its fair to say everyone 'convicted' of anything. Some paedophiles get convicted on only the words of the victims.

Thats why I said earlier on only if it can be actually proven beyond all reasonable doubt...and that it would be very much on a case by case basis.

Yes but having such a authoritarian and dictatorial punishment in todays society is backwards and quite barbaric.

And even though such sentences aren't given out that much nowadays, life imprisonment can be far more punishing.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niall

Yes but having such a authoritarian and dictatorial punishment in todays society is backwards and quite barbaric.

And even though such sentences aren't given out that much nowadays, life imprisonment can be far more punishing.

I agree with this totally. Unfortunately our 'justice' system is absolutely ridiculous and allows people such as the chinese woman who beat her baby to do a years worth of time...and then says her debt to society is paid...and she can go back to her normal life, have more kids to abuse...maybe get another year somewhere down the line...its just not right at all.

I would be all for life meaning life. And all serious crimes against kids getting life. But its just never going to happen. I know the sterilisation thing will never happen either though. But something really has got to be done about stuff like this. I mean, the guy who made a racist tweet...is likely to be in prison for longer than that woman is. How the **** is that fair?!

I honestly think that our justice system being too damn soft and inconsistent is the main reason so many offend in the first place. You can murder someone and be out in 5 years or so.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I agree with this totally. Unfortunately our 'justice' system is absolutely ridiculous and allows people such as the chinese woman who beat her baby to do a years worth of time...and then says her debt to society is paid...and she can go back to her normal life, have more kids to abuse...maybe get another year somewhere down the line...its just not right at all.

I would be all for life meaning life. And all serious crimes against kids getting life. But its just never going to happen. I know the sterilisation thing will never happen either though. But something really has got to be done about stuff like this. I mean, the guy who made a racist tweet...is likely to be in prison for longer than that woman is. How the **** is that fair?!

I honestly think that our justice system being too damn soft and inconsistent is the main reason so many offend in the first place. You can murder someone and be out in 5 years or so.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I agree with this totally. Unfortunately our 'justice' system is absolutely ridiculous and allows people such as the chinese woman who beat her baby to do a years worth of time...and then says her debt to society is paid...and she can go back to her normal life, have more kids to abuse...maybe get another year somewhere down the line...its just not right at all.

I would be all for life meaning life. And all serious crimes against kids getting life. But its just never going to happen. I know the sterilisation thing will never happen either though. But something really has got to be done about stuff like this. I mean, the guy who made a racist tweet...is likely to be in prison for longer than that woman is. How the **** is that fair?!

I honestly think that our justice system being too damn soft and inconsistent is the main reason so many offend in the first place. You can murder someone and be out in 5 years or so.

Yeah it is quite disgusting how lenient it's become. I mean if we could imprison people for life, and life meaning life in prison (not 25 years or some sh!t), then that would be ideal. There just isn't the space for it I suppose..

About the racist tweet thing: I think that was way over the top too. It could have been to set an example to others though not to be offensive like that online? I don't know really. It was ridiculous though. That was the one who was really offensive about the footballer, right?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niall

Yeah it is quite disgusting how lenient it's become. I mean if we could imprison people for life, and life meaning life in prison (not 25 years or some sh!t), then that would be ideal. There just isn't the space for it I suppose..

But if we did imprison people for life...Im pretty sure there wouldnt be so many offenders in the first place. So the overcrowding would solve itself really...as less people would be committing serious crimes.

But yeah, there isnt the space to even try it...because of how **** the system has been so far

Originally Posted by Niall

About the racist tweet thing: I think that was way over the top too. It could have been to set an example to others though not to be offensive like that online? I don't know really. It was ridiculous though. That was the one who was really offensive about the footballer, right?

I didnt read the tweets myself, but yeah. It might have been to set an example...but even so. Someone purposely torturing a child, should get way harsher punishment than some idiot keyboard warrior thinking he was clever :S I dont personally think his sentence was too harsh really...but there should be some consistency. And I think in anyones eyes what this woman did is way worse than what that man did. And this should be reflected in the punishment.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

But if we did imprison people for life...Im pretty sure there wouldnt be so many offenders in the first place. So the overcrowding would solve itself really...as less people would be committing serious crimes.

But yeah, there isnt the space to even try it...because of how **** the system has been so far

I never thought of it that way before. I suppose that makes sense. But like you said, the prisons are already fit to burst so we can't try it now.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I didnt read the tweets myself, but yeah. It might have been to set an example...but even so. Someone purposely torturing a child, should get way harsher punishment than some idiot keyboard warrior thinking he was clever :S

Hmm I think its quite worrying really. Jailing someone for being verbally offensive? He was exercising his right to free speech I think. I would've just fined him.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

But if we did imprison people for life...Im pretty sure there wouldnt be so many offenders in the first place. So the overcrowding would solve itself really...as less people would be committing serious crimes.

But yeah, there isnt the space to even try it...because of how **** the system has been so far

Is there really gonna be that significant a difference between the effectiveness of the deterrent for a prison sentence that lasts 25 years and one that lasts 50 (assuming after the time they're probably pretty close to death)? And if the death penalty is ineffective as a deterrent why would other tougher punishments be any more of one?

I think if someone is in the frame of mind to kill another person, than whether the punishment is 25 years, 50 years, or death, it won't have that big an impact on their decision

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by vicky.

i agree with this totally. Unfortunately our 'justice' system is absolutely ridiculous and allows people such as the chinese woman who beat her baby to do a years worth of time...and then says her debt to society is paid...and she can go back to her normal life, have more kids to abuse...maybe get another year somewhere down the line...its just not right at all.

I would be all for life meaning life. And all serious crimes against kids getting life. But its just never going to happen. I know the sterilisation thing will never happen either though. But something really has got to be done about stuff like this. I mean, the guy who made a racist tweet...is likely to be in prison for longer than that woman is. How the **** is that fair?!

I honestly think that our justice system being too damn soft and inconsistent is the main reason so many offend in the first place. You can murder someone and be out in 5 years or so.

this 100%

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niall

Yes but having such a authoritarian and dictatorial punishment in todays society is backwards and quite barbaric.

And even though such sentences aren't given out that much nowadays, life imprisonment can be far more punishing.

How many people in the UK these days are imprisoned for the rest of their natural life........ life imprisonment isn't life.

[Pyramid*]

I wish they'd done a poll on this : but split it into males /females: reading through the thread: it appears that it is mostly males who are against sterilization - with mostly the females being 'for it'.