[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazcracker

What could go wrong?Mmm lets see,well we could vote labour back in and drown in debt once again,then some other party can take the flack and try and get us out of it again

Do you still think the worldwide recession only happened here?
Ok then...
I agree that Blairs war was costly and wrong.
The point I was trying to make was that as a government the tories seem to be making similar decisions now as they did then.
But who benefits?

[MTVN]

I find the Labour "it was a worldwide recession" excuse as annoying as the Conservative's "we're just trying to clear up Labour's mess". Yes it was global but that doesn't mean that Labour aren't guilty of mismanaging the economy, making some important mistakes and spending beyond our means. If you look at Canada they avoided the financial crises, and they're more likely than anyone to be affected by what was happening in America, but they were responsible with their budget and didn't allow things to get out of hand, it's why landing Mark Carney as the new Bank of England governor was actually a rare great move by Osborne

[Kizzy]

It's not an excuse though..
There was a worldwide recession.
What about the eurozone crisis, is that an excuse?
Have you seen the cuts faced by Ireland today in the Guardian?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

It's not an excuse though..
There was a worldwide recession.
What about the eurozone crisis, is that an excuse?
Have you seen the cuts faced by Ireland today in the Guardian?

Don't talk to me.......

Spoiler:

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

It's not an excuse though..
There was a worldwide recession.
What about the eurozone crisis, is that an excuse?
Have you seen the cuts faced by Ireland today in the Guardian?

Yes I acknowledged that, my point is that there being a worldwide recession didn't mean it was inevitable that our economy would be in as bad a state as it was or that it was completely out of our own hands, Labour are not blame free

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by King Moonracer

Yes I acknowledged that, my point is that there being a worldwide recession didn't mean it was inevitable that our economy would be in as bad a state as it was or that it was completely out of our own hands, Labour are not blame free

So no thanks to nice Mr Major for joining the European Union?
Niamh, would you like to say thankyou?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

So no thanks to nice Mr Major for joining the European Union?
Niamh, would you like to say thankyou?

ha, tbf most of our problems are down to our s**ty and corrupt politicians imo but the Euro hasn't been great for us either, that's for sure!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Christmas Neeve

ha, tbf most of our problems are down to our s**ty and corrupt politicians imo but the Euro hasn't been great for us either, that's for sure!

Oh you poor thing... Our politicians are great, salt of the earth types.
They even let small businessmen who contribute a small donation write their policies, Mr Wonga did one... It was fab!

[the truth]

europe finally sunk labur imho....blair give up billions in our rebate for nothing in return, what an idiot....then gordon brown would still possibly have won the last election IF he had stood up to the eurocrats, that was his last chance saloon and sadly he failed to grasp his opportunity.

[Marc]

I'll just see if I can help us out, let me look at my bank account..

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Marczipan

I'll just see if I can help us out, let me look at my bank account..

its important people know the true debt. not just the Ł1 trillion owed by the government but the $10.4 trillion owed in total by us all publicly and privately. the us DOES include all private and public debt in their $16trillion debt figure, the UK does not, so we are in fact lying about the true figures. its the second highest debt in the world and per head is higher than almost every nation on earth. I just want you to be aware of the true situation and let others know. when the titanic sinks will you stay on board with the band or look for the nearest lifejcket?

Originally Posted by the truth

its important people know the true debt. not just the Ł1 trillion owed by the government but the $10.4 trillion owed in total by us all publicly and privately. the us DOES include all private and public debt in their $16trillion debt figure, the UK does not, so we are in fact lying about the true figures. its the second highest debt in the world and per head is higher than almost every nation on earth. I just want you to be aware of the true situation and let others know. when the titanic sinks will you stay on board with the band or look for the nearest lifejcket?

It's still irrelevant. You can't take on debt reduction when the economy is so bad. Cuts have shrunk the economy, not increased revenues. When times are bad, you invest in jobs and infrastructure. Get people into work, and then go from there.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

It's still irrelevant. You can't take on debt reduction when the economy is so bad. Cuts have shrunk the economy, not increased revenues. When times are bad, you invest in jobs and infrastructure. Get people into work, and then go from there.

Debt is never irrelevant, period, try telling those debtors it doesnt matter? Especially one as gargantuan as $10.4 trillion

Its simple to say invest in infrastructure and jobs in bad times, but how many people really do that and where would the money come from? I would add that I 100% agreed with Obama in taking that strategy, however americas gdp is way bigger than ours, they have diversified in way more areas than us...we idiotically put all our eggs in just one or 2 baskets, became over reliant on external nations for much of our energy too...a risky short term foolish strategy started by thatcher and continued by labour. in fact the gap between rich and poor under labour became bigger than since the days of oliver twist, what a disgraceful bunch of champagne socialists they turned out to be....they then tried to conceal their complete failure by buttering us up with gimmick issues like fox hunting and gay marriages, whilst thousands died in illegal wars over oil needed to save our economy, the biggest property crash ever, thousands froze in winter and tens of thousands died of abuses in hospitals and no military hospitals for injured war vets.

the US GDP in effect covers their debts...ours does not...Especially when we were in danger of losing our credit rating. Our low interest rates and the fact this government has at least taken some action to rectify a failing economy is the main reason weve kept the interest rates lower than almost all other european nations. Brown was right up to a point but he didnt act soon enough and he didnt sell his idea well enough.

I would add this government should have done way more. Its pathetic in fact how little they did. then again labour did nothing at all for small businesses in 13 years. Thats a disgraceful endictment of their ultimately failed government.

[Kizzy]

With the job market so saturated that it is driving down wages, the tax threshold being raised to Ł9'440 won't people be working for less pay and paying little or no tax?
How can there be growth from that?
Unless you see it as we are all productive little rats on a wheel running round for little reward till we drop dead... to be replaced by another rat........

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

With the job market so saturated that it is driving down wages, the tax threshold being raised to Ł9'440 won't people be working for less pay and paying little or no tax?
How can there be growth from that?
Unless you see it as we are all productive little rats on a wheel running round for little reward till we drop dead... to be replaced by another rat........

that doesnt make sense? less tax means more money in the pockets of these people on the lower end of the scale and more money to spend in the economy and create more growth?
this is called the mulitplier effect, this increased spending reults in higher revenues at busninesses and higher profits and more tax on higher profits.
sadly the governments strategy totally contradicts itself by raising vat on fuel to 20% that has to be slashed urgently on all goods imho

[Kizzy]

But if the hourly rate of pay has fallen therefore more people have less disposable income to spend on goods and services, so to me it's a lose lose situation..
Workers have less dosh
They spend less dosh
They contribute less dosh...
Who benefits from this senario?

[Nedusa]

It makes you wonder about our so called "special relationship" with the US. It appears the Yanks would only come into the war if we paid them vast amount of money,Gold etc give them many of our foreign Military bases to use ad infiniteum and give them commercial control of large areas of the Middle East for oil prospecting after the war was over.

So basically we paying "protection money" to the School Bully to help us fight our battles. any romantic notions about the Americans wanting to come in and fight the Nazi's were just that....romantic notions. They basically made a financial killing out of the second World War and it set them up as a country and allowed them to become a superpower in a generation.

Special relationship pughhh....they couldn't give a xxxx about Britain never have and never will.

The relationship is only special inasmuch as they say "bend over" and we say "how far".....!!!!

Originally Posted by Nedusa

It makes you wonder about our so called "special relationship" with the US. It appears the Yanks would only come into the war if we paid them vast amount of money,Gold etc give them many of our foreign Military bases to use ad infiniteum and give them commercial control of large areas of the Middle East for oil prospecting after the war was over.

So basically we paying "protection money" to the School Bully to help us fight our battles. any romantic notions about the Americans wanting to come in and fight the Nazi's were just that....romantic notions. They basically made a financial killing out of the second World War and it set them up as a country and allowed them to become a superpower in a generation.

Special relationship pughhh....they couldn't give a xxxx about Britain never have and never will.

The relationship is only special inasmuch as they say "bend over" and we say "how far".....!!!!

Hire your best friend to take on a 3 year project for you, and see if they do it free of charge.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Hire your best friend to take on a 3 year project for you, and see if they do it free of charge.

Over 50 Million mostly innocent people died during the second World War...to call it a "3 year Project" is a little disrespectful...!!!!

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Over 50 Million mostly innocent people died during the second World War...to call it a "3 year Project" is a little disrespectful...!!!!

I was just pointing out that nobody does anything for free. The spoils of war always go to the victors, that's how England was able to amass great wealth and power over our history.

There is nothing disrespectful either. This isn't a WWII thread, after all.It's a thread about the debt - so take your faux outrage somewhere else.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

I was just pointing out that nobody does anything for free. The spoils of war always go to the victors, that's how England was able to amass great wealth and power over our history.

There is nothing disrespectful either. This isn't a WWII thread, after all.It's a thread about the debt - so take your faux outrage somewhere else.

Youre preaching here about paying back debts? yet in another thread you say $10.4 trillion debt is irrelevant? totally hypocrisy. Also your frivolous manner is again disrespectful here.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

I was just pointing out that nobody does anything for free. The spoils of war always go to the victors, that's how England was able to amass great wealth and power over our history.

There is nothing disrespectful either. This isn't a WWII thread, after all.It's a thread about the debt - so take your faux outrage somewhere else.

I agree nobody does anything for nothing but for the US to continue to preach about their "special relationship" with the UK and how they fought together side by side in WWII is a tad hypocritical bearing in mind Britain had to almost bankrupt itself in order for the US to get involved.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

It makes you wonder about our so called "special relationship" with the US. It appears the Yanks would only come into the war if we paid them vast amount of money,Gold etc give them many of our foreign Military bases to use ad infiniteum and give them commercial control of large areas of the Middle East for oil prospecting after the war was over.

So basically we paying "protection money" to the School Bully to help us fight our battles. any romantic notions about the Americans wanting to come in and fight the Nazi's were just that....romantic notions. They basically made a financial killing out of the second World War and it set them up as a country and allowed them to become a superpower in a generation.

Special relationship pughhh....they couldn't give a xxxx about Britain never have and never will.

The relationship is only special inasmuch as they say "bend over" and we say "how far".....!!!!

The americans did not like the english or their monarchy especialy,theyd have brutal battles with them for years and lets face it the english overlords during the early years of empire, were amongst the cruellest people to ever walk the earth. the americans didnt want to know about interventionism until pearl harbour. the relationship is based purely on the self and shared interests of the 2 nations. were just as hypocritical as them about this.

pearl harbour changed the world more than any other incident in the last century. why? because it smashed the american sense of idealism. they entered the real world so to speak and have intervened in over 60 nations since, usually at the point of a gun or a bomb. at the time we criticized them for not intervening, now theyre criticized for intervening too much in too many places.

as for the declaration of indepence , it was copied in many ways on the declaration of arbroath, written mainly by scottish and welsh exiles , freeing the americans from the tyranny of the english crown.

the true power of the empire never came from this ruthless idiot monarchs. it came from the ship builders, the law makers and the industry workers. the irish and scots were mostly the expert ship builders, the welsh and the northern pits provided the coal, the cannnonballs came from merthyr and treorchy, whilst the real key to it all was in fact the copper bottomed ships. this made our ships unsinkable. why? because the welsh created pure copper 4000 years ago at the great orme in north wales. swansea alone provied 66% of the worlds copper at one time. it is this genius which labelled the welsh as mercurial, mythical , magical back in the day and laid the grounds to worship the mythical dragon as their national emblem

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by the truth

The americans did not like the english or their monarchy especialy,theyd have brutal battles with them for years and lets face it the english overlords during the early years of empire, were amongst the cruellest people to ever walk the earth. the americans didnt want to know about interventionism until pearl harbour. the relationship is based purely on the self and shared interests of the 2 nations. were just as hypocritical as them about this.

pearl harbour changed the world more than any other incident in the last century. why? because it smashed the american sense of idealism. they entered the real world so to speak and have intervened in over 60 nations since, usually at the point of a gun or a bomb. at the time we criticized them for not intervening, now theyre criticized for intervening too much in too many places.

as for the declaration of indepence , it was copied in many ways on the declaration of arbroath, written mainly by scottish and welsh exiles , freeing the americans from the tyranny of the english crown.

the true power of the empire never came from this ruthless idiot monarchs. it came from the ship builders, the law makers and the industry workers. the irish and scots were mostly the expert ship builders, the welsh and the northern pits provided the coal, the cannnonballs came from merthyr and treorchy, whilst the real key to it all was in fact the copper bottomed ships. this made our ships unsinkable. why? because the welsh created pure copper 4000 years ago at the great orme in north wales. swansea alone provied 66% of the worlds copper at one time. it is this genius which labelled the welsh as mercurial, mythical , magical back in the day and laid the grounds to worship the mythical dragon as their national emblem

Good Post, some interesting information thanks for your input....

[thesheriff443]

we are encouraged to get into debt by the goverment,
its called the rat race,debt is only number's.