[Kizzy]

This whole farce is designed as a smokescreen to deflect from real issues..
Who the hell has decided that now is the time to raise this issue?...
Is is the LGBT community, or the tories in a desperate attempt to deflect interest away from the autumn statement?

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by Merry Kizzmas

This whole farce is designed as a smokescreen to deflect from real issues..
Who the hell has decided that now is the time to raise this issue?...
Is is the LGBT community, or the tories in a desperate attempt to deflect interest away from the autumn statement?

yes probably

Bigots gon' bigot

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Bigots gon' bigot

hypocrite

Originally Posted by the truth

hypocrite

How so?

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Bigots gon' bigot

How so?

[joeysteele]

I have tried to look at this from imagining if I was gay and wanted to get married.
I have to say it surprises me that gay individuals would want to get married in Churches that have been responsible for fuelling and acting out discrimination against them anyway.

Way back a few decades, in the CofE for instance, the idea of Women priests would have been considered a total no go area.Now they are very much on the increase,so maybe it is going to take the CofE a lot longer still to come round to allowing 'marriages' between 2 gay individuals.
I was brought up RC and the time for that coming in that faith is way off, they haven't even got round to even the thought of Women Priests yet.

So the Churches seem to be so far away from the real world still and hearing their objections makes some of them sound really prejudiced.
The RC for instance, uses terms as to homosexuality, hate the sin but not the sinner, how patronising and pathetic a line is that to hold.
There have been so many Churches and faiths springing up that maybe the best way forward is create another one.

For sure in my opinion, if there is a God, also as to Christianity and Jesus too, for the division and discrimination the Churches still practice then I would doubt likely any God would even want to look inside any of those Churches let alone listen to them.

I believe people, be it man and woman, 2 women or 2 men should they want to marry and if they hold religious beliefs then they should be able to enjoy all the rights the man and women would have.

Politically though, I find this whole issue floated by the PM the other day now very confusing by his Govts stance.
Firstly, he wanted to make it that any gay couple who wanted to get married should have the right to do so, if they were of the Christian faith and many gay people claim to be,that they should be able to marry in Church if the Church was willing to let them.
That was a start at least.

Secondly though,now the Govt/politicians say that that right should still be granted to the gay community but the CofE is going to be banned in law from alowing marriages between gay couples.
Either I am going daft or there is a massive amount of hypocrisy creeping in from the Govt on that one.
I suspect the latter, create more confusion and then divide seems to be the normal route this Govt has chosen to go on as to many areas now.

What a mess in my view but I do hope the day comes when Churches really wake up and come into the real world and start really reaching out to people rather than seeming hell bent on pushing more and more people away.

[Irene Pearson]

If Prince Charles were gay and wished to be married in church the law would be changed instantly. If princess Ann had wanted to join the upper echelons of the COE females would be in situ. Just what has their ridiculous stance on such matters got to do with the simple teachings of a carpenters son. Men in frocks did not figure and all the other dramatics and OTT symbolism - where were they in Christ's time. People now see through all of this razzle dazzle and will not be dictated to any longer . We will not give you our money and have minds and souls of our own

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Irene Pearson

If Prince Charles were gay and wished to be married in church the law would be changed instantly. If princess Ann had wanted to join the upper echelons of the COE females would be in situ. Just what has their ridiculous stance on such matters got to do with the simple teachings of a carpenters son. Men in frocks did not figure and all the other dramatics and OTT symbolism - where were they in Christ's time. People now see through all of this razzle dazzle and will not be dictated to any longer . We will not give you our money and have minds and souls of our own

Haha, that's a pretty good point actually, isn't that where the whole religion evolved from cos Henry the Eighth wanted to be able to divorce or something like that?

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by Christmas Neeve

Haha, that's a pretty good point actually, isn't that where the whole religion evolved from cos Henry the Eighth wanted to be able to divorce or something like that?

Well exactly. What a joke. Some king cant get divorced because of those naughty catholic laws so massacres as many of them as poss, chops of a few of his missuses heads, makes up his own religion which the mindless still follow today. Christianity? I think not. They wouldn't have let Jesus in their churches in years gone by as he was actually Jewish with not exactly pure white skin. The Bible today bears little resemblance to its original form anyway because the early catholics butchered it.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Christmas Neeve

Haha, that's a pretty good point actually, isn't that where the whole religion evolved from cos Henry the Eighth wanted to be able to divorce or something like that?

another war started by the english monarchy and not by religion

[Z]

Originally Posted by Irene Pearson

If Prince Charles were gay and wished to be married in church the law would be changed instantly. If princess Ann had wanted to join the upper echelons of the COE females would be in situ. Just what has their ridiculous stance on such matters got to do with the simple teachings of a carpenters son. Men in frocks did not figure and all the other dramatics and OTT symbolism - where were they in Christ's time. People now see through all of this razzle dazzle and will not be dictated to any longer . We will not give you our money and have minds and souls of our own

If Prince Charles were gay, he would have a wife, be childless and probably be playing hide the sausage with men on the sly - there are so many examples of royal family members in history who have very clearly been homosexual but no one would have dared say it out loud because it would have been treason.

[Irene Pearson]

May I also add that gay couples often choose to have children. Now what was one of the man made rules re Christian marriage and children. Discrimination by the church against the children of gay couples. What a Christian bunch. How can any intelligent person swallow this absolute clap trap.

[Kizzy]

Yep, the church of England is a load of old tosh!
The king james bible is not worth the paper it's printed on...

[the truth]

All religious organizations have their own rules about who they are willing to marry...all of them. some turn you down if youve been married before, if youre not of suitable character in their eyes, if you dont attend regularly and if youre gay etc However some churches will decide to offer gay marriage. I dont see the fuss here to be honest. A gay couple will be able to find a church who carries out gay marriages, if their local doesnt offer this, then Im pretty sure that gay couple wouldnt want to get married there anyway. I would also add disabled people cant marry in many churches either, simply because theres no disabled access.pathetic but true. who do you blame? Jesus? No but you can blame the bishop (dioceses)vicars and minister responsible for this failure.

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by the truth

All religious organizations have their own rules about who they are willing to marry...all of them. some turn you down if youve been married before, if youre not of suitable character in their eyes, if you dont attend regularly and if youre gay etc However some churches will decide to offer gay marriage. I dont see the fuss here to be honest. A gay couple will be able to find a church who carries out gay marriages, if their local doesnt offer this, then Im pretty sure that gay couple wouldnt want to get married there anyway. I would also add disabled people cant marry in many churches either, simply because theres no disabled access.pathetic but true. who do you blame? Jesus? No but you can blame the bishop (dioceses)vicars and minister responsible for this failure.

My point exactly. Christ's teachings were simple. Some Christian churches have turned such simplicity into amateur dramatics.

[armand.kay]

Why do gay people want to be married in a church?? that's the last place I want to spend the best day of my life...

[arista]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

Why do gay people want to be married in a church?? that's the last place I want to spend the best day of my life...

No Idea Why.


Do not know any Gays




Its down to the way they were brought up , I assume

[lily.]

They want the option, just like everyone else has it. They want to be treated the same, not better, not worse, than heterosexual people.

One day we'll look back on the things that happen today, and we'll be astonished at the narrow-mindedness and bigotry that exists.

When I read about the everyday things that happened in the deep south 50 years ago, I can't imagine living in a time where someone was treated differently because of the colour of their skin.

This is exactly the same. It's prejudice. Plain and simple. Eventually society will move past it, and that includes the churches. I hope it's sooner rather than later. I personally couldn't give a **** about anyone's sexual preference and I'm pretty sure nobody gives a **** about mine. It's completely irrelevant.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lily.

They want the option, just like everyone else has it. They want to be treated the same, not better, not worse, than heterosexual people.

One day we'll look back on the things that happen today, and we'll be astonished at the narrow-mindedness and bigotry that exists.

When I read about the everyday things that happened in the deep south 50 years ago, I can't imagine living in a time where someone was treated differently because of the colour of their skin.

This is exactly the same. It's prejudice. Plain and simple. Eventually society will move past it, and that includes the churches. I hope it's sooner rather than later. I personally couldn't give a **** about anyone's sexual preference and I'm pretty sure nobody gives a **** about mine. It's completely irrelevant.

I have said this before in another thread, but I don't think you were around at that time lily, so sorry if you were and I'm repeating myself...

When I married my husband, we could not marry in a synagogue because he was not a Jew. I didn't feel marginalised, victimised or any less Jewish because of it. I understand that it is a rule of my religion. It didn't occur to me that I should demand an Act of Parliament to force Judaism to change their rules. I do agree that if gay couples want to marry then they should absolutely have the right to marry in a civil ceremony the same as heterosexuals. But I don't agree that religions should be forced to marry them if it goes against their doctrine. If some churches choose to, then that is their own decision and not one that I feel should be made compulsory.

[lily.]

Good point... and no I haven't read that story in another thread.

They probably shouldn't be made to do it by law, but my hope is that in the future they'll want to do it.

Could someone clarify if this is correct... Wasn't there a time when you couldn't marry in a church if you'd already been married then divorced? If so, has that changed with the times?

Perhaps attitudes towards homosexuality within Christianity is something that'll change over time as well.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by lily.

Good point... and no I haven't read that story in another thread.

They probably shouldn't be made to do it by law, but my hope is that in the future they'll want to do it.

Could someone clarify if this is correct... Wasn't there a time when you couldn't marry in a church if you'd already been married then divorced? If so, has that changed with the times?

Perhaps attitudes towards homosexuality within Christianity is something that'll change over time as well.

I don't know the "ins and outs" of that but I believe the Roman Catholic church is still against it.

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by Scouse Prezzie

I don't know the "ins and outs" of that but I believe the Roman Catholic church is still against it.

This still applies in many C of E churches and is not allowed in catholic establishments as they do not allow or acknowledge divorce.You would be a bigamist in their eyes. Couldn't make it up could you?

[Irene Pearson]

Originally Posted by lily.

Good point... and no I haven't read that story in another thread.

They probably shouldn't be made to do it by law, but my hope is that in the future they'll want to do it.

Could someone clarify if this is correct... Wasn't there a time when you couldn't marry in a church if you'd already been married then divorced? If so, has that changed with the times?

Perhaps attitudes towards homosexuality within Christianity is something that'll change over time as well.

Yes and in the meantime these" Christian" folk get away with blatant discrimination.WHY/

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Irene Pearson

Yes and in the meantime these" Christian" folk get away with blatant discrimination.WHY/

Because they are the rules of their religion. Some religions will not marry people outside that particular faith, some religions will not marry divorced people... Do you suggest that divorced heterosexuals are being disciminated against?