[Jake.]

I think it's 6 months (24 weeks), not 7

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

It's not a child though. It's not a child until it is born. I agree that once it is a child then the parents should have 50/50 say.

Aw Alex, of course its a childyou can hear the wee things heart beat at 12 weeks and feel it stir and hiccup and punch soon after. To me my children, were my children even in my tummy, I just hadn't met them yet.

[Vicky.]

Its 24 weeks I think.

Babies are classed as 'viable' at 24 weeks...meaning they have a good chance of survival outside the woman. And if the woman went into labour, the doctors would always try to save it. Before 24 weeks...they dont have to even attempt, though some do it anyway.

However some babies have survived being born earlier than that.

The 24 week limit is way too late IMO, personally I would make it around 12 weeks. But thats a whole other thread

[AnnieK]

24 weeks is the legal limit although a medical termination can be carried out past this time if deemed appropriate by medical staff. Unfortunately, one reason they will carry is out is cleft lip and palate which is disgraceful as a simple op at birth can correct that.

24 weeks is far too late IMO anyway but that is currently the limit.

[Z]

It takes two people to create a baby, so I do think it should be an equal decision, but as it is the woman who has to go through the process of being pregnant and giving birth, the decisive say should always lie with the woman. It's tough I think, but it's probably tougher on women, because of that extra responsibility that comes with having a child. In instances where one potential parent wants one thing and the other wants the opposite, it should always be up to the woman to decide - it's her body. Must be horrible to be stuck in that dilemma though.

[Marsh.]

The woman obviously has to go through the actual literal physical side of things so it is a much tougher decision for her, but completely ignoring the opinions/wishes of the father is wrong IMO.

[the truth]

loads more babies born around 22 to 26 weeks survive now as science advances...give the poor babies a chance to live before murdering them.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Of course not. They should have zero say, but they should have to pay for half the cost.

..if you were in a loving relationship Alex.. and you and your partner made a decision to have a surrogate baby...you were both really excited and it was very much planned and wanted..and then the surrogate decided to abort the baby...would you like to have a say in that decision...ideally, I mean..?...

..I know that perhaps the surrogate may have good reason and that the decision would probably be more hers...and it is as Vicky said, something were there's no definitive answer...the problem is that kind of every abortion would have to be looked at differently and that would never happen....

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its 24 weeks I think.

Babies are classed as 'viable' at 24 weeks...meaning they have a good chance of survival outside the woman. And if the woman went into labour, the doctors would always try to save it. Before 24 weeks...they dont have to even attempt, though some do it anyway.

However some babies have survived being born earlier than that.

The 24 week limit is way too late IMO, personally I would make it around 12 weeks. But thats a whole other thread

And that breaks my heart. Poor little children.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You can't have an abortion at 7 months, can you? I hope not

I don't know the 'ins and outs' of that argument but I think it may be permitted under extreme circumstances, e.g. rape and the possibility of the baby having a severe disability.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..if you were in a loving relationship Alex.. and you and your partner made a decision to have a surrogate baby...you were both really excited and it was very much planned and wanted..and then the surrogate decided to abort the baby...would you like to have a say in that decision...ideally, I mean..?...

..I know that perhaps the surrogate may have good reason and that the decision would probably be more hers...and it is as Vicky said, something were there's no definitive answer...the problem is that kind of every abortion would have to be looked at differently and that would never happen....

If i ever used a surrogate, I still don't think I should be able to FORCE the surrogate to carry through the pregnancy if she changed her mind. Obviously I would be deeply disappointed, but I would still support her right to choose.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

The woman obviously has to go through the actual literal physical side of things so it is a much tougher decision for her, but completely ignoring the opinions/wishes of the father is wrong IMO.

I think that abortion in general is wrong, to be honest...I really wish people wouldn't look it at from a "how developed or underdeveloped is it?" viewpoint. I'm completely in favour of it for rape and all but the ones who use it as a form of contraception are sickening.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

If i ever used a surrogate, I still don't think I should be able to FORCE the surrogate to carry through the pregnancy if she changed her mind. Obviously I would be very disappointed, but I would still support her right to choose.

..no not forcing Alex..I agree, that should never happen..but i think Vicky means 'ideally' should father's be taken into consideration with these decisions...I think in some cases that they should but obviously there would be a lot of things to be considered and the final decision would always probably have to be with the mother because it is her body..but it isn't only her baby...it's quite a difficult one, I think....

[lostalex]

Oh i thought we were talking about legally, should a man have a say in the final decision. And i would say that no, a man should not be able to stop a woman from carrying out her decision.

Obviously any decent human being takes other people's feelings into consideration, but in the end, I think the final decision should be 100% made by the woman.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Oh i thought we were talking about legally, should a man have a say in the final decision. And i would say that no, a man should not be able to stop a woman from carrying out her decision.

Obviously any decent human being takes other people's feelings into consideration, but in the end, I think the final decision should be 100% made by the woman.

Yes this is what I meant.

Actually, editing the title to make this clearer

[Marsh.]

Depends entirely on the circumstances.

If you have a completely selfish woman having an abortion without consulting the father then that is different to a rape victim or when the father has walked out.

[Ryan57]

A father should have a say. He had a part in the production.

The major blow against world poverty will only happen when every woman has control of her own reproductive system.

[lostalex]

Men often purposefully break condoms during sex and pretend "oops i didn't notice it broke".

A lot of men also use getting a woman pregnant as a way to control her and keep her in his life.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Men often purposefully break condoms during sex and pretend "oops i didn't notice it broke".

A lot of men also use getting a woman pregnant as a way to control her and keep her in his life.

You have a very bizarre view of the world

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Men often purposefully break condoms during sex and pretend "oops i didn't notice it broke".

A lot of men also use getting a woman pregnant as a way to control her and keep her in his life.

Yeah sure

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

You have a very bizarre view of the world

Originally Posted by JH95

Yeah sure

I don't think its 'often' at all but I would say that happens sometimes

A bit like how some women will stop taking the pill without telling the man.

[Jake.]

Just like it sometimes happens that a woman lies about being on the pill I suppose

[Vicky.]

Heh, I edited that in just when you posted

[Jake.]

LOL