[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

"People will always use religion to justify horrific acts, Obama's right to say that Christianity is no better or different to Islam."

First of all, Barack Hussein Obama being a Muslim would state that, but it is thinly disguised pro-Islamic propaganda and anti-Christian nonsense, because Christianity most definitely is a totally different religion to Islam.

What's more, Hussein Obama makes the same colossal error which you and others on this thread make, in being confused by just what Christianity is.

Christianity is a religion specifically based upon the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as attested in The New Testament, and Jesus Christ was a pacifist who taught Love, Understanding, Tolerance, Charity and advocated peace and forgiveness.

True Christians are those who put faith and trust in the New Testament and who believe in Jesus as ‘The Christ’ or Messiah, and who follow Christ’s teachings. Therefore true Christians who truly follow the teachings of Christ are also peace loving.

NOWHERE in the New Testament is there any incitement for followers to go out and maim, kill, or subjugate other races, creeds or non-believers and I defy anyone on here to provide evidence to the contrary.

Even the violence within the Old Testament is solely bound by historical context and specific only to the era in which the text was written, as distinct from the open-ended commands throughout the Quran which compel faithful Muslims to to go out and maim, kill, or subjugate other races, creeds or non-believers. These commands are not era specific, and have no predetermined time limit, so are as relevant and applicable for faithful Muslims today as they were to faithful Muslims in Muhammad's time. Which explains the demonic atrocities still being perpetrated in Allah's name after 1500 years.

The above is only one difference between Islam and Christianity, but there are other very real differences, far too numerous to expound upon here.

As for "better than" - whether we are specifically comparing the religions themselves, or their followers interpretation of The New Testament with the Quran, there really is no comparison, because the former is a religion based upon love, peace and tolerance, and the latter is one where 109 of its verses incite beheadings and dismemberment or other violence.

I feel this may be the reason why we do not see faithful Christians holding one freshly-severed innocent's head after another, or witness them coolly moving through school classrooms executing innocent children, setting terrified teachers ablaze, or chanting "Jesus" while they shoot yet more innocent victims in cold blood.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

First of all, Barack Hussein Obama being a Muslim would state that, but it is thinly disguised pro-Islamic propaganda and anti-Christian nonsense, because Christianity most definitely is a totally different religion to Islam.

What's more, Hussein Obama makes the same colossal error which you and others on this thread make, in being confused by just what Christianity is.

Christianity is a religion specifically based upon the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as attested in The New Testament, and Jesus Christ was a pacifist who taught Love, Understanding, Tolerance, Charity and advocated peace and forgiveness.

True Christians are those who put faith and trust in the New Testament and who believe in Jesus as ‘The Christ’ or Messiah, and who follow Christ’s teachings. Therefore true Christians who truly follow the teachings of Christ are also peace loving.

NOWHERE in the New Testament is there any incitement for followers to go out and maim, kill, or subjugate other races, creeds or non-believers and I defy anyone on here to provide evidence to the contrary.

Even the violence within the Old Testament is solely bound by historical context and specific only to the era in which the text was written, as distinct from the open-ended commands throughout the Quran which compel faithful Muslims to to go out and maim, kill, or subjugate other races, creeds or non-believers. These commands are not era specific, and have no predetermined time limit, so are as relevant and applicable for faithful Muslims today as they were to faithful Muslims in Muhammad's time. Which explains the demonic atrocities still being perpetrated in Allah's name after 1500 years.

The above is only one difference between Islam and Christianity, but there are other very real differences, far too numerous to expound upon here.

As for "better than" - whether we are specifically comparing the religions themselves, or their followers interpretation of The New Testament with the Quran, there really is no comparison, because the former is a religion based upon love, peace and tolerance, and the latter is one where 109 of its verses incite beheadings and dismemberment or other violence.

I feel this may be the reason why we do not see faithful Christians holding one freshly-severed innocent's head after another, or witness them coolly moving through school classrooms executing innocent children, setting terrified teachers ablaze, or chanting "Jesus" while they shoot yet more innocent victims in cold blood.

Thanks for posting this Kirk, I read many posts on here arguing that Islam is actually really peaceful and that its misunderstood or that Christianity is or was equally bad and Islam will change and that the religions are similar.

Utter nonsense as you have so eloquently detailed they are fundamentally different, one is a moral code to live by and a blueprint for moving the human race forward to better times. A framework of rules to live by where peace,love and tolerance are cornerstones, beacons shing the way forward.

The other is a dark backward rigid religious cult which worships and sanctifies death,pain,torture and suffering. A set of rules which basically is mind control where obedience and compliance are mandatory and all individuality and creativity are frowned upon.

More a set of rules not to live by but rather to try and not break or ones life will be very short.

So different from Christianity it beggars belief people on here cannot see these glaring differences.

Look forward to the day Islam is seen for what it is and is consigned to the scrapheap of history.




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[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Thanks for posting this Kirk, I read many posts on here arguing that Islam is actually really peaceful and that its misunderstood or that Christianity is or was equally bad and Islam will change and that the religions are similar.

Utter nonsense as you have so eloquently detailed they are fundamentally different, one is a moral code to live by and a blueprint for moving the human race forward to better times. A framework of rules to live by where peace,love and tolerance are cornerstones, beacons shing the way forward.

The other is a dark backward rigid religious cult which worships and sanctifies death,pain,torture and suffering. A set of rules which basically is mind control where obedience and compliance are mandatory and all individuality and creativity are frowned upon.

More a set of rules not to live by but rather to try and not break or ones life will be very short.

So different from Christianity it beggars belief people on here cannot see these glaring differences.

Look forward to the day Islam is seen for what it is and is consigned to the scrapheap of history.

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I am grateful for your comments Nedusa - It is members such as you who are the reason why I returned to this forum.

Thank you.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by sassysocks

Whether you support organised religion or not is hardly the issue. You were being challenged on your comparisons between present day Islamic religious doctrine still practicing opression and violence to historical Christian doctrine in an era when people knew no different. Today people do, even in Asia.

Maybe your comprehension skills are not as developed as you think they are and maybe you need to get over yourself.

It's less to do with Islam and more to do with Dictators using it to enforce their reign. The same thing could happen to any religion, you could get a Jewish, Christian, Hindu ETC group that gains some power and enforces it through the darkest parts of their religious text. You could take religion out of the Middle east and the same problems would still exist because it's less about religion and more about power and the means those who have it use to keep it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Sorry Dezzy, but I do read every post on every thread which I subscribe to, in the same way that I read and research, and cross check and cross reference, any subject on which I am interested in before I form an opinion, and therefore, when I do post an opinion it as near a 'qualified' opinion as possible.

Islam and Christianity are subjects of which I already have a considerable knowledge of - being both a Christian, and also interested in all religions since I was young - and my posts have nothing to do with being "self righteous" and being "self obsessed" or thinking that "everyone should kneel before" my "truth", but are to do with not allowing groundless attacks on Christianity to go unchallenged - especially when such attacks are cloaked in pseudo fact and ludicrous misconceptions.

I am also not dim, and able to perceive irrational anti-Christianity attacks no matter how expertly disguised among phrases such as "all religions", in the same manner that I cannot help but conclude from the preponderance of evidence, that whilst certain members on here continually attack Christianity, their lack of real condemnation or even criticism of Islam and Islamic terrorists is glaring.

It seems clear to me, that it is the Modus Operandi of certain members on here to post ill thought out, sweeping and presumptuous fallacies, then when rebutted by legitimate and reasoned counter responses, they resort to 4 reactions against those validly countering:

A) Insult
B) Ridicule
B) Ignore
C) Make false complaint to a Moderator.

The above is neither discussion, nor debate.

If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own.

It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks.

Nobody has to justify why they don't align themselves with Christianity, it doesn't make them any less than yourself or anyone else who blindly follows.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own.

It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks.

Nobody has to justify why they don't align themselves with Christianity, it doesn't make them any less than yourself or anyone else who blindly follows.

Well Kizzy, it's finally happened. We've agreed on something

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well Kizzy, it's finally happened. We've agreed on something

Hallelujah!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own.

It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks.

Nobody has to justify why they don't align themselves with Christianity, it doesn't make them any less than yourself or anyone else who blindly follows.

"If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own."


What the hell are you talking about above? It makes no sense.

"It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks."

What the hell are you talking about in the section which I have emboldened above? It makes no sense.

Please calm down Kizzy, and re-post the part of my post from which you draw such ridiculous conclusions so that I and others on here can actually cross reference to see where you may have at least some justification - no matter how tenuous - for your misinterpretations. Oh, and I genuinely don't understand what you mean by: "as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members'"? What are you "suspecting" "on of" which "members"?

Bye for now.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

"If you can't take on board that some don't differentiate between religions that's not anyone elses fault but your own."


What the hell are you talking about above? It makes no sense.

"It's also rather insulting to have the insinuation that if you are anti religion you must by default be pro terrorist! It's ridiculous and as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members' I feel it's important to highlight when you are making these shameful remarks."

What the hell are you talking about in the section which I have emboldened above? It makes no sense.

Please calm down Kizzy, and re-post the part of my post from which you draw such ridiculous conclusions so that I and others on here can actually cross reference to see where you may have at least some justification - no matter how tenuous - for your misinterpretations. Oh, and I genuinely don't understand what you mean by: "as I'm suspecting on of the 'certain members'"? What are you "suspecting" "on of" which "members"?

Bye for now.

Ah patronising?...

It makes sense if you think back to when I said all religions operate through a system of fear, for power and influence at their core... in that respect they're all the same.
If you don't do this, that will happen.

I am calm, I will explain... 'certain members on here continually attack Christianity, their lack of real condemnation or even criticism of Islam and Islamic terrorists is glaring'

I feel you are suggesting I am one of these members that you are opposed to, I take offence to the fact you are insinuating that as well as 'attacking' Christianity by not stating that I condemn terrorism as if it's some 'glaring' statement of some sort....Does everyone now have to state the obvious to appease you?

[MTVN]

It's fair to make the point he did, Islam is not inherently predisposed to violence and extremism more than Christianity is, and just as the crusades, the Inquisitions, the bloody infighting Christianity saw in the 16th/17th centuries are now treated as stains on Christianity's history that we have long since moved on from, so Isis will probably be looked on in years to come. This paragraph pretty much summed it up for me written after the Paris attacks:

This isn’t difficult to understand when you recognise that Islam isn’t a fixed entity whose nature is preprogrammed by its holy texts or early history. Whether you think Islam is inherently violent or benign, you can scour the Quran and the life of Muhammed and find evidence to support your view. But Islam, like any global religion with a long history, takes a thousand different forms in the many social and political contexts in which people call themselves Muslims. Nobody thinks Christians are forever doomed to carry out acts of genocide because the Old Testament is full of holy war. So why do we find it so hard to see that Muslims can be both Salafists and feminists, fundamentalists and reformists, Isis butchers and Kurdish freedom fighters?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...h-9974645.html

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's fair to make the point he did, Islam is not inherently predisposed to violence and extremism more than Christianity is, and just as the crusades, the Inquisitions, the bloody infighting Christianity saw in the 16th/17th centuries are now treated as stains on Christianity's history that we have long since moved on from, so Isis will probably be looked on in years to come. This paragraph pretty much summed it up for me written after the Paris attacks:

No sorry, don't agree.... Islam by its very nature has violence enshrined at its core. It promote murder for a wide variety of issues including homosexuality and adultery plus if you try to leave this faith one that your parents signed you up for , again the sentence is death.

These rules won't change in 50,100 or 500 years.

Islam in its very nature is not a peace loving religion by any means .





.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

No sorry, don't agree.... Islam by its very nature has violence enshrined at its core. It promote murder for a wide variety of issues including homosexuality and adultery plus if you try to leave this faith one that your parents signed you up for , again the sentence is death.

These rules won't change in 50,100 or 500 years.

Islam in its very nature is not a peace loving religion by any means .





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I disagree and 500 hundred years ago it would be absolutely unthinkable that people would be free to be publicly blasphemous, utterly reject Christianity, be openly gay, be in adulterous relationships etc. I disagree with the whole concept of 'modernising' because it implies we were always consciously treading the path that took us to where we are today - we weren't. Remember that in Islam's early years it was responsible for some of the greatest scientific, economic and cultural advancements in history, the way the Islamic world is today is not how it's always been and it's now how it always will be.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I disagree and 500 hundred years ago it would be absolutely unthinkable that people would be free to be publicly blasphemous, utterly reject Christianity, be openly gay, be in adulterous relationships etc. I disagree with the whole concept of 'modernising' because it implies we were always consciously treading the path that took us to where we are today - we weren't. Remember that in Islam's early years it was responsible for some of the greatest scientific, economic and cultural advancements in history, the way the Islamic world is today is not how it's always been and it's now how it always will be.

No............I don't think so, Christianity at it's core is peaceful, loving, tolerant, forgiving religion.

It may be that 500 years ago it was hijacked for political ends to steal lands and plunder vast riches from backward native peoples.

It may also have been hijacked by a small minority who warped it to suit their own evil agenda's ie the purge against "witches" and other acts of puritannical savagery.

But at it's heart the Gospels tell a story of love and forgiveness that is the whole point of Christianity it is the only way humans can live and evolve together. Gay and Lesbian acceptance together with divorce and abortion are still big issues with the Roman Catholic/Catholic Churches but you are not condemned to death as you would be as a muslim.

Islam is very much a dark, intolerant, do as I say or face the consequences type of religion, very old testament and more suited to controlling people and forcing them to comply or else.

There is no compassion just the end of a sword and this is the mainstream Saudi Arabian or Iranian versions of the faith. Even leaving the radical extremist elements out of the argument it is still a very unpleasant cult to be forced upon children who have the unfortunate luck to be born into a Muslim family.

They are effectively trapped upon pain of death should they seek to exercise free will and decide their own fate.

It is without doubt the most ghastly organised Cult masquerading as a religion and it needs to undergo serious change if it wants to change the views of myself and Billions of people like me worldwide.

It is simply unacceptable in its present form and has no place in the civilised modern world.






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[the truth]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

No............I don't think so, Christianity at it's core is peaceful, loving, tolerant, forgiving religion.

It may be that 500 years ago it was hijacked for political ends to steal lands and plunder vast riches from backward native peoples.

It may also have been hijacked by a small minority who warped it to suit their own evil agenda's ie the purge against "witches" and other acts of puritannical savagery.

But at it's heart the Gospels tell a story of love and forgiveness that is the whole point of Christianity it is the only way humans can live and evolve together. Gay and Lesbian acceptance together with divorce and abortion are still big issues with the Roman Catholic/Catholic Churches but you are not condemned to death as you would be as a muslim.

Islam is very much a dark, intolerant, do as I say or face the consequences type of religion, very old testament and more suited to controlling people and forcing them to comply or else.

There is no compassion just the end of a sword and this is the mainstream Saudi Arabian or Iranian versions of the faith. Even leaving the radical extremist elements out of the argument it is still a very unpleasant cult to be forced upon children who have the unfortunate luck to be born into a Muslim family.

They are effectively trapped upon pain of death should they seek to exercise free will and decide their own fate.

It is without doubt the most ghastly organised Cult masquerading as a religion and it needs to undergo serious change if it wants to change the views of myself and Billions of people like me worldwide.

It is simply unacceptable in its present form and has no place in the civilised modern world.






.

Christinaity and islam are totally opposite ends of the spectrum I agree...Judaism is also a harsh unforgiving religion

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

No............I don't think so, Christianity at it's core is peaceful, loving, tolerant, forgiving religion.

It may be that 500 years ago it was hijacked for political ends to steal lands and plunder vast riches from backward native peoples.

It may also have been hijacked by a small minority who warped it to suit their own evil agenda's ie the purge against "witches" and other acts of puritannical savagery.

But at it's heart the Gospels tell a story of love and forgiveness that is the whole point of Christianity it is the only way humans can live and evolve together. Gay and Lesbian acceptance together with divorce and abortion are still big issues with the Roman Catholic/Catholic Churches but you are not condemned to death as you would be as a muslim.

Islam is very much a dark, intolerant, do as I say or face the consequences type of religion, very old testament and more suited to controlling people and forcing them to comply or else.

There is no compassion just the end of a sword and this is the mainstream Saudi Arabian or Iranian versions of the faith. Even leaving the radical extremist elements out of the argument it is still a very unpleasant cult to be forced upon children who have the unfortunate luck to be born into a Muslim family.

They are effectively trapped upon pain of death should they seek to exercise free will and decide their own fate.

It is without doubt the most ghastly organised Cult masquerading as a religion and it needs to undergo serious change if it wants to change the views of myself and Billions of people like me worldwide.

It is simply unacceptable in its present form and has no place in the civilised modern world.






.

Honestly I don't feel that Christianity was ever hijacked. We like to think these days that religion was just used as an excuse for bad people to do bad things - it wasn't. Their actions were directly linked to their beliefs, they were motivated just as much by genuine religious zeal as they were for any money or land. It's hard for us to appreciate today in a time where we are pretty indifferent to religion, where for most of us it doesn't impact our lives or our decisions, but it did used to. Most of those who fought Europe's wars of religion were completely confident that God was on their side, that they were justified in massacring the other side because they had forsaken true religion. I'm not talking about oppressing backwards people or targeting a few witches, the whole of Europe tore itself apart over their differing interpretations of Christianity. Sorry if that doesn't fit the happy clappy, love thy neighbour aspect of Christianity but it's true, and where they needed biblical justification for their violence they found it, and were better acquainted with the Bible and the history of Christianity than you or I.

[InOne]

Most Religious histories are written in blood. But seen as Muslims (not all) are actively trying to take over the world at the moment, we should concentrate on the present to try fix the problem.

The crusades were very very different times.

[JoshBB]

He's just saying that christianity has done a lot of **** just like islam has

[Kizzy]

No.. the west is developed and is seen as civilised.
Obama is right to suggest that ALL denominations have blood on their hands, and for Christians that's not as far back as some think.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No.. the west is developed and is seen as civilised.
Obama is right to suggest that ALL denominations have blood on their hands, and for Christians that's not as far back as some think.

Noone is saying Christianity doesn't have blood on its hands, like any other religion. We can't change the past. What counts is the now And most religious violence in the world today is connected to Islam.

Frankly I have no time for the Islam excusers as improved education and communications have forced most religions to beoome more aware of peoples' human rights. Why should Islam be any different? Many followers of Islam simply refuse to move on and consider peoples' human rights - and it is usually related to control. No excuses.

[MTVN]

Islam is a much newer religion than Christianity and its divisions are a lot more acute and a lot more violent, the Islamic world is at war with itself the same way the Christian world was a few hundred years ago. Yes we should acknowledge that this is the present but we also shouldn't treat Islam as spectacularly different from Christianity in taking the path that it is now, you can't expect the whole world to move through a linear set of stages

[GiRTh]

Obama only has a year left. HE said at the state of the union he isn't gonna run for any office ever again to muttered laughter from the republicans. HE replied by pointing out that he's beat them in every race he's ever run against them . I hope all this signals him going out with a bang. It about time he slapped them around.

[Northern Monkey]

Christianity(mostly) grew up.Islam is still living in the past.Yes Islam is a newer religion but in this day and age it should know better and grow up too.Stoning,beheading and forcing women to cover up does not gel with modern society.Even people in backwards Middle Eastern countries know this due to the technology avaliable now.Ignorance is no excuse for cruel medievil behaviour in todays world.
Not wise from Obama when a large percentage of Americans are devout Christians.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Islam is just christianity more suited to the middle east and christianity is islam more suited to the west

both a patently ridiculous and just another way of humans seeking to feel important

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Islam is just christianity more suited to the middle east and christianity is islam more suited to the west

both a patently ridiculous and just another way of humans seeking to feel important

100% agree. I have to shake my head when anyone implies Christianity is good and Islam is evil. People have killed in the name of both religions they are as bad as each other IMO.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

100% agree. I have to shake my head when anyone implies Christianity is good and Islam is evil. People have killed in the name of both religions they are as bad as each other IMO.

people have killed in the name of anything ...science power science war famine hunger greed wealth oil land....you don't blame the oil or the land for war just as you shouldn't blame Jesus wonderful teachings....its evil people doing evil things...if there was no religion these people would still do evil things ...they did before religion and they will after it....to blame the best religion of all Christianity is frankly insane