[Z]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I believe our modern religions are nothing more than a Chinese whisper from ancient civilisations.

I like that, it's concise down to a single sentence. I don't think there's anything wrong with believing in a religion, but I do think that the books that are there to pad out the belief systems are a heap of ****e. Noah did not put two of every animal in a giant ark and ride out a flood that killed all life on the planet. Moses did not split a sea in half and walk right through it. Blah blah blah...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Z

I like that, it's concise down to a single sentence. I don't think there's anything wrong with believing in a religion, but I do think that the books that are there to pad out the belief systems are a heap of ****e. Noah did not put two of every animal in a giant ark and ride out a flood that killed all life on the planet. Moses did not split a sea in half and walk right through it. Blah blah blah...

Z this kind of post can generate a Kirk 1000 word essay post and its nearly the weekend


I can hear him typing now on his zx spectrum

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Z this kind of post can generate a Kirk 1000 word essay post and its nearly the weekend


I can hear him typing now on his zx spectrum

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Z

I like that, it's concise down to a single sentence. I don't think there's anything wrong with believing in a religion, but I do think that the books that are there to pad out the belief systems are a heap of ****e. Noah did not put two of every animal in a giant ark and ride out a flood that killed all life on the planet. Moses did not split a sea in half and walk right through it. Blah blah blah...

the great floods did happen several times....its been proven, they've trawled out the the dead sea and dug out loads of boats dating back 1000s of years including the sea of gallillee boat....the moses story where he split the sea is also an area where the rocks in the middle of the river created the illusion of him parting the seas.....these things did happen though whether all animals were on board or or some animals on board noahs ark who knows...whether there were actual supernatural miracles is open to interpretation...these are literal and symbolic ways of interpreting most things in the Bible....either way you choose to believe or disbelieve it...I believe all these stories have inherent value. stories are not measurements in scientific terms, stories are an amalgamation of incidents events, people, personalities, bravery cowardice, luck , morals etc etc none of these can be measured in purely scientific terms. science and religion do not always have to be in direct conflict, the majority of great scientists were in fact religious themselves.. frankly theyre totally different subjects and the 2 can co exist.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by the truth

the great floods did happen several times....its been proven, they've trawled out the the dead sea and dug out loads of boats dating back 1000s of years including the sea of gallillee boat....the moses story where he split the sea is also an area where the rocks in the middle of the river created the illusion of him parting the seas.....these things did happen though whether all animals were on board or or some animals on board noahs ark who knows...whether there were actual supernatural miracles is open to interpretation...these are literal and symbolic ways of interpreting most things in the Bible....either way you choose to believe or disbelieve it...I believe all these stories have inherent value. stories are not measurements in scientific terms, stories are an amalgamation of incidents events, people, personalities, bravery cowardice, luck , morals etc etc none of these can be measured in purely scientific terms. science and religion do not always have to be in direct conflict, the majority of great scientists were in fact religious themselves.. frankly theyre totally different subjects and the 2 can co exist.

well lets just forget about them and move on. We should be concentrating on teaching ALL children at school

All Gods are fake
Supernatural things are not real
Ghosts are made up
Mediums are fake
No one can see into the future

For the sake of the future

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Z

I like that, it's concise down to a single sentence. I don't think there's anything wrong with believing in a religion, but I do think that the books that are there to pad out the belief systems are a heap of ****e. Noah did not put two of every animal in a giant ark and ride out a flood that killed all life on the planet. Moses did not split a sea in half and walk right through it. Blah blah blah...

No, you're right Zee, Noah didn't take two of each kind of animal onto the ark. According to the Bible, he took two of each unclean animal, and seven of each of all the others.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

No, you're right Zee, Noah didn't take two of each kind of animal onto the ark. According to the Bible, he took two of each unclean animal, and seven of each of all the others.

what is an unclean animal?

that old bastard made them all and now he is saying some are not clean?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what is an unclean animal?

that old bastard made them all and now he is saying some are not clean?

Pigs, camels... You're a bit of a filthy animal Trumpet, but I believe there can't possibly be two of you.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Interesting read, thoughts?

I studied history in college, and spent a lot of my time researching ancient civilizations and comparative religions. As an agnostic, I am fascinated by religion and the idea of faith and belief, across all religions spanning the entirety of human existence. Some of the most fascinating projects that I did in college involved comparing ancient mythology to modern religious beliefs, finding similarities and multiple parallels. For example, anyone who has ever read The Epic of Gilgamesh will know that many biblical stories are plucked straight from the story, including the flood myth and the virgin birth myth.

Historians and religious scholars know that religious texts are made up of a series of myths (that’s not to say they are not true, but just that they are mythical stories). These myths appear across different religions and eras, and the same stories repeat themselves over and over again throughout history. Today, I will present to you five near-identical “Jesus” myths that predate Jesus.

Please note that many of these stories have differing translations and interpretations, some of which tell different stories. The main idea of this list is to remind you that the story of Jesus is rooted in ancient myth.

Horus (3100 B.C.)



Horus was one of the many Egyptian Gods. This is probably one of the best-known and contested deities that is often compared to Jesus. Some translations and Egyptian myths say that he had 12 disciples, and was born of a virgin in a cave. His birth was announced by a star, and was attended by three wise men. He was baptized at age thirty by Anup the Baptizer. Horus performed miracles, including rising at least one person from the dead and walking on water. He was crucified, buried in a tomb, and resurrected, just like Jesus.

Buddha (563 B.C.)



Buddha’s mother, Queen Maha Maya, had a dream that a white elephant with six tusks entered her right side, impregnating her. As was tradition in this time, the mother left her husband’s kingdom to give birth near her father. She did not make it the entire way, though, and gave birth while traveling. Buddha was born in a garden beneath a tree. In addition to this birth story, Buddha, like Jesus, also performed miracles, healed the sick, walked on water, fed 500 men from a single basket of cakes, was transfigured on a mount, and taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all. There are also some texts that say he was crucified, spent three days in hell, and was resurrected. That is not what killed him, though, as he died in his old age from what is believed to be food poisoning.

Mithra (2000 B.C.)



Mithra was an ancient Zoroastrian deity, and along with Horus has some of the most striking similarities to Jesus. Yet another example of virginal birth, Mithra was born to the virgin Anahita on December 25th. He was swaddled and placed in a manger, where he was tended to by shepherds. Like Jesus and Horus, he had 12 companions (which can be interpreted as disciples). He also performed miracles, identified with both the lion and the lamb, sacrificed his life to save the world, was dead for three days before being resurrected, and was known as the messiah, the savior, and “the Way, the Truth and the Light.” His religion also had a Eucharistic-style “Lord’s supper.”

http://the-daily.buzz/near-identical...esus/?ts_pid=2

Niamh, all this is pure baloney - anti-Christian fallacy which is easily blasted out of the water because the deliberate lies it comprises of, aren't even 'clever' lies just ludicrous, easily exposed deceit. Follow this link:

http://beginningandend.com/jesus-cop...is-pagan-gods/

Or if you believe the Zeitgeist baloney, win $1,000 dollars here:

http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/

And here's a satirical eye-opener from Cracked.com:

http://www.cracked.com/funny-1710-zeitgeist-movie/

[Crimson Dynamo]

So Kirk what evidence convinced you that any of the (bog standard at the time) magical things in the bible happened?

and take the bible out of your answer as i am afraid that does not count as evidence

[Niamh.]

With all due respect Kirk, people are perfectly entitled to discuss these subjects. Me personally, as a person who was born into Catholicism and imo a victim of attempted brain washing, I feel particularly justified in being able to speak about or against Christianity if I want to. You may call it attacking people of faith, I call it speaking about something which was forced upon me as an impressionable child.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

With all due respect Kirk, people are perfectly entitled to discuss these subjects. Me personally, as a person who was born into Catholicism and imo attempted brain washing, I feel particularly justified in being able to speak about or against Christianity if I want to. You may call it attacking people of faith, I call it speaking about something which was forced upon me as an impressionable child.

Indeed and the attacking faith line only stands up if we respect faith and frankly that boat sailed 50 years ago.

Faith is a fancy word for something rather unpleasant in my eyes and at best its believing in something coz thats the way i was told or coz it says so in some badly typeset collection of myths from the bronze age

faith used to be a badge of honour, but now its not, thankfully

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Indeed and the attacking faith line only stands up if we respect faith and frankly that boat sailed 50 years ago.

Faith is a fancy word for something rather unpleasant in my eyes and at best its believing in something coz thats the way i was told or coz it says so in some badly typeset collection of myths from the bronze age

faith used to be a badge of honour, but now its not, thankfully

Yeah or because this is the country I was born in, we could all be Muslims or Hindus or whatever if we'd been born in another part of the world

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Indeed and the attacking faith line only stands up if we respect faith and frankly that boat sailed 50 years ago.

Faith is a fancy word for something rather unpleasant in my eyes and at best its believing in something coz thats the way i was told or coz it says so in some badly typeset collection of myths from the bronze age

faith used to be a badge of honour, but now its not, thankfully

Tell me L.T do you see faith in the same light as indoctrination about other issues like homosexuality and Lesbianism are evil, or black people are inherently less intelligent than white people.

Could it be that we have been brainwashed by successive generations to believe certain values or precepts and religion is one of them.

Perhaps as we become more enlightened religion or more specifically organised religion will come to be seen for what it actually is....???

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Tell me L.T do you see faith in the same light as indoctrination about other issues like homosexuality and Lesbianism are evil, or black people are inherently less intelligent than white people.

Could it be that we have been brainwashed by successive generations to believe certain values or precepts and religion is one of them.

Perhaps as we become more enlightened religion or more specifically organised religion will come to be seen for what it actually is....???

I like the way we now look forward and believe in things until the evidence suggests otherwise rather than believe things from long ago and close the book.

[kirklancaster]

Sorry Niamh, but I actually posted this before I read your other post. I am sorry that this is, and as been the case in Ireland with 'Religious Indoctrination' and I detest such practices.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

With all due respect Kirk, people are perfectly entitled to discuss these subjects. Me personally, as a person who was born into Catholicism and imo a victim of attempted brain washing, I feel particularly justified in being able to speak about or against Christianity if I want to. You may call it attacking people of faith, I call it speaking about something which was forced upon me as an impressionable child.

I do not have a problem with anyone 'discussing these subjects' Niamh, I really don't. What I do have a problem with is the 'way' in which some discuss them and the unspoken accepted 'Law' on here that decrees that it is perfectly legitimate for someone to make unnecessary comments which are insensitive to Christians and can cause offence, but 'punishable' whenever a Christian responds to such comments - even if in the most innocuous of fashion.

I am sorry if the Catholic faith was 'forced upon you' Niamh - that is utterly wrong, and I have a lot of problems with Catholicism, but you have 'found your own way' and I respect your views now.

All that I ask, is that whilst discussing these topics, people respect mine.

I have qualifications in Science and Anatomy and Physiology and History, and I have a great insatiable thirst for knowledge - especially concerning certain branches of Philosophy, and I would be more than willing to discuss in depth with anyone on here just why an averagely intelligent, well read, well educated adult would CHOOSE to believe in GOD and in Jesus as The Christ, but I am afraid it would descend into the usual 'Three Ring Circus' of mockery and ridiculing where I would be outnumbered, ganged up on, and eventually banned, so it is a no no I'm afraid.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Sorry Niamh, but I actually posted this before I read your other post. I am sorry that this is, and as been the case in Ireland with 'Religious Indoctrination' and I detest such practices.



I do not have a problem with anyone 'discussing these subjects' Niamh, I really don't. What I do have a problem with is the 'way' in which some discuss them and the unspoken accepted 'Law' on here that decrees that it is perfectly legitimate for someone to make unnecessary comments which are insensitive to Christians and can cause offence, but 'punishable' whenever a Christian responds to such comments - even if in the most innocuous of fashion.

I am sorry if the Catholic faith was 'forced upon you' Niamh - that is utterly wrong, and I have a lot of problems with Catholicism, but you have 'found your own way' and I respect your views now.

All that I ask, is that whilst discussing these topics, people respect mine.

I have qualifications in Science and Anatomy and Physiology and History, and I have a great insatiable thirst for knowledge - especially concerning certain branches of Philosophy, and I would be more than willing to discuss in depth with anyone on here just why an averagely intelligent, well read, well educated adult would CHOOSE to believe in GOD and in Jesus as The Christ, but I am afraid it would descend into the usual 'Three Ring Circus' of mockery and ridiculing where I would be outnumbered, ganged up on, and eventually banned, so it is a no no I'm afraid.

People are simply giving their opinions on religion though Kirk, if they think it's all a big fairytale, that's just their opinion on it which they're perfectly entitled to hold

[Kizzy]

The whole problem I have with religion as it's manifested in the modern day is that as everything today it's run as a business, having the same structure effectively as a major consortium.
And much like big business less and less money is trickling down from the top.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The whole problem I have with religion as it's manifested in the modern day is that as everything today it's run as a business, having the same structure effectively as a major consortium.
And much like big business less and less money is trickling down from the top.

Yep, imo, organised religions have always been a way to have power over and control the masses and make some money. I went through a phase of being completely fascinated by Scientology and i did a bit of reading up on it. The funniest thing I thought about the whole thing was that L Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer and he'd apparently said before he'd started the religion that the best way to make money was to start a religion..........

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yep, imo, organised religions have always been a way to have power over and control the masses and make some money. I went through a phase of being completely fascinated by Scientology and i did a bit of reading up on it. The funniest thing I thought about the whole thing was that L Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer and he'd apparently said before he'd started the religion that the best way to make money was to start a religion..........

And I APPLAUD you for this Niamh - sincerely. You think 'OUTSIDE THE BOX' and carry out further research which is exactly HOW I came to be a Christian.

I have stated many times that I am not an orthodox Christian, I believe in Christ not 'The Church', because 'The Church' is run by corrupt MAN and I actually agree with you and Kizzy and others about 'Control' and 'Money' etc.

I too examined Scientology and Islam and Rosicrucian-ism and even Von Daniken's ET God theories among other philosophies, Religions and Theories.

I actually believed in some of it all and still do but NOT ALL.

I like to think that I am intelligent and educated, and I know that I base my belief in Christ on research, analysis and a great deal of LOGIC.

I was not 'indoctrinated' into it all or 'brainwashed by parents or schools. I CHOSE to believe in Christ.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

And I APPLAUD you for this Niamh - sincerely. You think 'OUTSIDE THE BOX' and carry out further research which is exactly HOW I came to be a Christian.

I have stated many times that I am not an orthodox Christian, I believe in Christ not 'The Church', because 'The Church' is run by corrupt MAN and I actually agree with you and Kizzy and others about 'Control' and 'Money' etc.

I too examined Scientology and Islam and Rosicrucian-ism and even Von Daniken's ET God theories among other philosophies, Religions and Theories.

I actually believed in some of it all and still do but NOT ALL.

I like to think that I am intelligent and educated, and I know that I base my belief in Christ on research, analysis and a great deal of LOGIC.

I was not 'indoctrinated' into it all or 'brainwashed by parents or schools. I CHOSE to believe in Christ.

Well good for you and that's fine but the reason I do have such strong opinions on this subject is because I was indoctrinated. Ireland was almost completely run by the church up to not that long ago, that is changing but even still 90% of "state" run schools, schools that I as a tax payer am funding are Catholic schools and people of no faith are last on the list of priority when trying to enroll, this forces people to keep pretending they're Catholic just so their kids aren't made to feel like outcasts or have to be driven miles outside their own towns to enroll in the limited non denominational schools

[billy123]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yep, imo, organised religions have always been a way to have power over and control the masses and make some money. I went through a phase of being completely fascinated by Scientology and i did a bit of reading up on it. The funniest thing I thought about the whole thing was that L Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer and he'd apparently said before he'd started the religion that the best way to make money was to start a religion..........

There is a really interesting documentary on Scientology that was recently shown on HBO called: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief. It was on youtube but i notice it has been taken down by Sky TV so i presume they are planning to show it soon as well. A really interesting watch that has got great reviews.
Off topic i know but it is a good watch.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bobnot

There is a really interesting documentary on Scientology that was recently shown on HBO called: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief. It was on youtube but i notice it has been taken down by Sky TV so i presume they are planning to show it soon as well. A really interesting watch that has got great reviews.
Off topic i know but it is a good watch.

Oh thanks Bob, I'll definitely try and watch that

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bobnot

There is a really interesting documentary on Scientology that was recently shown on HBO called: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief. It was on youtube but i notice it has been taken down by Sky TV so i presume they are planning to show it soon as well. A really interesting watch that has got great reviews.
Off topic i know but it is a good watch.

..oh I've seen that documentary, Bob...and what I also found interesting with it was that it mentioned the Panorama programme from years ago..(did you see that..)...and some of the people who were involved in intimidating/threatening the programme makers then have now left the organisation/cult and they mentioned it on there....

[billy123]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..oh I've seen that documentary, Bob...and what I also found interesting with it was that it mentioned the Panorama programme from years ago..(did you see that..)...and some of the people who were involved in intimidating/threatening the programme makers then have now left the organisation/cult and they mentioned it on there....

Yes the Panorama investigation was really good seeing John Sweeney finally lose his temper with them was TV gold. They really are a creepy cult.
The way they flooded the IRS with lawsuits and then offered to make them go away if they were declared a religion and tax exempt was nothing short of extortion its amazing the Americans were weak enough to cave in to them.

Youtube video