[the truth]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

It's actually quite offensive to compare the EU to a regime resulting in the death of MILLIONS, so stop.

how do you know it wont end up the same way down the line?

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by the truth

how do you know it wont end up the same way down the line?

How do you know the United Kingdom won't?

it's a ridiculous claim to make.

[arista]

All The World Markets are down
due to Greece Crisis

[arista]

[the truth]

take the drachma you have no choice.....ps who do they actually owe this money to?

[arista]

Originally Posted by the truth

take the drachma you have no choice.....ps who do they actually owe this money to?

Greece now says they want 2 year loan deal
from Germany.



But I am not not sure they can demand anything

[smudgie]

They want to be part of Europe, they want to borrow more money..are we meant to feel sorry for them when we tighten our belts to get on our feet and they are anti-austerity?
That would be a no from me...we have to work at least 4 years longer than them to claim our pensions, they need to sort themselves out instead of looking to the rest of Europe to keep bailing them out and getting them deeper into debt.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by the truth

socialism is the poltics of envy these days, Europe is the politics of communism

Nigel Farage (UKIP, EFD): Mr Cameron heads to Brussels tomorrow, I think on 'mission impossible'. But it is a remarkable debate to think that the European Union is talking about taking another trillion euros from European taxpayers despite the fact that the accounts have not been signed off for 18 years in a row. If this was a company, the directors, or in this case the Commission, would all be in prison.

But never mind, Mr Cameron will go and he will argue for a freeze. Or what he means by a freeze - is the same over bloated budget with increases for inflation. That actually is the best, the very best that he can achieve in these negotiations. I have no doubt he will actually come home with the UK taxpayer having an even bigger bill. Well it won't work because the public opinion in Britain is now very clear. What our taxpayers are saying is 'Enough is enough.'

No longer do we wish to pay money to Hungarian companies involved in projects to "improve the lifestyle and living standards of dogs". And our patience has completely snapped at such cultural absurdities as the 400,000 euros given to the Flying Gorillas Dance Troupe who using their own language of "rhythm, music and gibberish" - well they'd fit in here well wouldn't they - give performances such as the "brilliant 'Smelly Foot Dance' with an acoustic score that includes spectacular belching." No, I'm not making it up.

And I think the British public are angry at the fleets of chauffeur driven cars, at the extravagant buildings and the never ending travelling circus that is the European Parliament.

We pay 53 million pounds a day to be a member of this organisation for no benefit whatsoever. Mr Cameron, when you come back from this Brussels summit why don't you accept my challenge, and let's have a proper and full debate in Britain on whether it's worth staying a member of this Union or not.

The last opinion polls over the weekend show that now, by a majority of two to one, the British people now want us to leave this Union and not pay you a penny piece.

Thank you.

Well Said..............

[arista]

[Nedusa]

Greece is basically offering itself to highest bidder one the one side NATO the EU and the IMF with all strings attached or on the other hand part of the BRICS with Russia and a bailout using Russian money but this comes at a price and Greece would have to block all NATO actions near its territory and most likely allow Russia to build bases there.

[Kizzy]

I think the phrase is 'over a barrel' then?

[MTVN]

Well I don't think Russia will be able to afford a Greek bailout, any strong relationship between the two will mainly be political to give Greece a bit of leverage. It is a real stalemate and neither side is looking likely to back down. This referendum on Sunday is a farce - not only was it crazy to call it on a whim without informing anyone but the question is so convoluted that barely any voters are going to understand it. And calling the referendum in the first place has meant that the Troika's proposals have been withdrawn so there's not even anything to vote on.

It's all impossible to follow, the Greek finance minister is saying that the most viable plans have been discussed since the calling of the referendum but according to any other official source there has been no discussion at all since that referendum was called?? And all the while Greeks are running out of money, businesses are going bust, people can barely put food on the table and suicide rates are rocketing. None of that looks likely to ease up anytime soon no matter what the outcome is in the next few weeks.

[Niamh.]

Interesting read

http://news.yahoo.com/case-greece-fo...--finance.html

[MTVN]

Mmm I suppose the counter-argument would be that Greece has already received two bail outs on quite generous terms and has failed to meet their end of the bargain both times. Like the article mentions as well it was different in that Germany was a historically strong functioning economy and was more important for political reasons. It's hard for the German government when they're under a lot of domestic pressure to take a though stance - most the population actually want them to be tougher than they are being. Merkel won't want to be the Chancellor who oversaw the breakdown of the Eurozone but she also has an election that needs winning in a couple of years.

Is there quite a lot of sympathy for Greece in Ireland Niamh? Because I think the EU would say that countries like Ireland, Spain and Portugal also had to have it tough for their bailouts but they have kept to their end of the bargain and have come out of it ok.

[Niamh.]

Yeah I think there is. Like, alot of people think that maybe our government lay down too easily to Europe and that they should have fought harder for us in our terms of repayment. People are feeling a bit hammered by new taxes and increases and cut backs and are pretty pissed off with it all, so there's a bit of understanding there for a country who just told them no, if you know what I mean?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah I think there is. Like, alot of people think that maybe our government lay down too easily to Europe and that they should have fought harder for us in our terms of repayment. People are feeling a bit hammered by new taxes and increases and cut backs and are pretty pissed off with it all, so there's a bit of understanding there for a country who just told them no, if you know what I mean?

Yeah I see, it's difficult cause I suppose it makes you wonder how democratic it is when a government is basically being told 'accept these demands from banks and creditors or you're ruined'. Although there's also governments in europe under pressure from their populations to take a firm line and not allow the Greeks to give up their end of the bargain when their countries are owed millions. And how worth it is it to be so defiant if you'll be worse off in the long run :/ Both sides have overplayed their hands and been too stubborn imo, I do think if Greece had a more moderate government in power that it'd be easier to come to an agreement, their PM seems really erratic

[bots]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yeah I see, it's difficult cause I suppose it makes you wonder how democratic it is when a government is basically being told 'accept these demands from banks and creditors or you're ruined'. Although there's also governments in europe under pressure from their populations to take a firm line and not allow the Greeks to give up their end of the bargain when their countries are owed millions. And how worth it is it to be so defiant if you'll be worse off in the long run :/ Both sides have overplayed their hands and been too stubborn imo, I do think if Greece had a more moderate government in power that it'd be easier to come to an agreement, their PM seems really erratic

The problem is that when these loans were given to Greece, everyone without exception knew that they were going to default on payments sooner rather than later. They should have been booted out of Europe when they got in to trouble. A bank wont lend to a customer who is in debt and has no prospect of paying it back, so why was Greece treated any differently. The decision makers have made everything worse by not taking the appropriate action at the time and I am sure Greece is gambling on the same decision makers being lenient again. A Greek no vote with ineffectual consequences puts Greece in a stronger position.

[arista]

Thousands Protest Ahead Of Greek Referendum

[At least 20,000 people turned out at each demonstration,
two days before the vote which asks Greeks whether
they want to accept or reject tough bailout terms imposed by international creditors.]



http://news.sky.com/story/1512967/th...eek-referendum

[Iceman]

The fact that people in Greece can't understand the question on the ballot paper is scary.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Eoin

The fact that people in Greece can't understand the question on the ballot paper is scary.

Andrew Neil on our tv today was saying that he has a degree in Economics and even he can't work out half the question

The problem is that means both sides can twist the referendum to mean whatever they want. Syriza et al will equate 'no' with = standing up for Greeks and enabling a stronger negotiating position while the opposition are going to equate 'no' with = leave the Euro and ensure even harder times to come. How are Greece supposed to come to a decision on this? And even if they can, so what? They're voting on an agreement that apparently became redundant when they called this referendum. It's madness

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Andrew Neil on our tv today was saying that he has a degree in Economics and even he can't work out half the question

The problem is that means both sides can twist the referendum to mean whatever they want. Syriza et al will equate 'no' with = standing up for Greeks and enabling a stronger negotiating position while the opposition are going to equate 'no' with = leave the Euro and ensure even harder times to come. How are Greece supposed to come to a decision on this? And even if they can, so what? They're voting on an agreement that apparently became redundant when they called this referendum. It's madness

Yes a No Vote
is the Wrong it will start the Germany - Greece War again.


they must Vote Yes.

[Kizzy]

If they could do it without cuts resulting in the deaths of citizens surely they would... they're not Britain are they?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If they could do it without cuts resulting in the deaths of citizens surely they would... they're not Britain are they?

Its not just Cuts
its Germany sorting out their Whole Way of Life
otherwise
they must Get The Hell out of the Club.

Sign Of The Times

[Kizzy]

Well it looks looks like it's Germany or Russia... who would you pick?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well it looks looks like it's Germany or Russia... who would you pick?

Germany is Pro €uro money


Russia is Anti €uro money


So if they want to stay in the Club
they must pick Germany.