[Ashley.]

Double standards.

[Crimson Dynamo]

well when GG transgendered people accepted him, i mean her

[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

well when GG transgendered people accepted him, i mean her

What a Puddle!

[Ninastar]

Meh, probs not a very popular opinion (and i don't really care either way) but I don't think you an truly be female or male (unless you already are, through birth) until you have the operation. But of course you can identify as whatever you want, and we should stand by you with that.

[lostalex]

i don't think your genitals and body parts define you as a man or a woman.

If a man goes to war, and he gets his balls blown off by a roadside bomb in Iraq... now he has no balls, is he still a man?

Or a woman gets breast cancer, and she has to have a mastectomy, is she still a woman?

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i don't think your genitals and body parts define you as a man or a woman.

If a man goes to war, and he gets his balls blown off by a roadside bomb in Iraq... now he has no balls, is he still a man?

Or a woman gets breast cancer, and she has to have a mastectomy, is she still a woman?

You're right. And we all start off as female in the womb anyway... some of us are just lucky enough to grow penises

[arista]

Originally Posted by LiamBB

This is the video:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34625512

This is a further article where she talks about Caitlyn Jenner, who apparently just wants to steal limelight from proper women!:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...germaine-greer

The reason I find this so interesting is that it's Germaine Greer who's saying these things. I would have thought a feminist intellectual would better understand the dangers of repressing people. Of course she's entitled to her opinion I'm just very surprised that this is her opinion. For example, saying "they don't behave like women" is basically saying that all women should behave a particular way, which surely is blatant misogyny?

Yes I Get Her


Feel The Force

[Livia]

No transgender woman has the XX chromosome so clinically, as they still have only XY chromosomes and not XX chromosomes they are not biologically women. That doesn't mean to say that if they have a need to live their lives as a women they shouldn't do that.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

No transgender woman has the X chromosome so clinically, as they still have only xy chromosomes and not XX chromosomes they are not biologically women. That doesn't mean to say that if they have a need to live their lives as a women they shouldn't do that.

Yes XY XX is the Facts

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

No transgender woman has the XX chromosome so clinically, as they still have only XY chromosomes and not XX chromosomes they are not biologically women. That doesn't mean to say that if they have a need to live their lives as a women they shouldn't do that.

what you say is factually true.

i don't think trans women need to be reminded though, and i think it's clear that Germaine Greer is just being a nasty **** by thinking she needs to REMIND trans women of that fact. It's clear she takes some kind of sick discriminatory pleasure in saying it.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what you say is factually true.

i don't think trans women need to be reminded though, and i think it's clear that Germaine Greer is just being a nasty **** by thinking she needs to REMIND trans women of that fact. It's clear she takes some kind of sick discriminatory pleasure in saying it.

But then i agree with this too.Germaine Greer's just a nasty opinionated twat tbqh.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

But then i agree with this too.Germaine Greer's just a nasty opinionated twat tbqh.

What a gender specific derogatory term to level at someone for having an opinion.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What a gender specific derogatory term to level at someone for having an opinion.

I don't discriminate,I call blokes twats too and pricks

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Livia

No transgender woman has the XX chromosome so clinically, as they still have only XY chromosomes and not XX chromosomes they are not biologically women. That doesn't mean to say that if they have a need to live their lives as a women they shouldn't do that.

I agree with this also obviously^

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Chaos

Meh, probs not a very popular opinion (and i don't really care either way) but I don't think you an truly be female or male (unless you already are, through birth) until you have the operation. But of course you can identify as whatever you want, and we should stand by you with that.

Originally Posted by Livia

No transgender woman has the XX chromosome so clinically, as they still have only XY chromosomes and not XX chromosomes they are not biologically women. That doesn't mean to say that if they have a need to live their lives as a women they shouldn't do that.

You are of course both factually correct, but people are primarily and outwardly identified by their gender, not their biological sex (which is what the terms 'male' and 'female' signify). Gender is socially constructed, fluid, and can be altered, and as such, if you are a biological male or female, and choose to identify as the opposite gender (or neither, for that matter), that's what you are. Until genital inspections are carried out on a regular basis, nobody will be identified by their sex, and that makes all this talk of 'she's not a real woman' or 'he can never be a real man' ultimately futile.

As a society we still have an unnecessary obsession with anatomical differences between humans, and are convinced that the be all and end all of transgenderism is to 'have the op', when it's far more complex than that and actually a lot of trans people wish not to...and really, why should they be compelled to? Unless you wish to sleep with someone, what's hidden underneath their clothes is the business of nobody else but them.

There is far more to gender identity than genitalia, and this is a disappointing view from Germaine, who often speaks a lot of sense.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Jack_

There is far more to gender identity than genitalia, and this is a disappointing view from Germaine, who often speaks a lot of sense.

I agree.

As far as freedom of speech goes, we have to remember that not everybody out there gets to give a lecture on a prestigious platform. This isn't about a right but about privilege. If it were more about a right, then it'd be a thing everybody could do. Expressing an opinion is one of those; expressing an opinion in a position of declared authority... is not.

Instead of questioning why most youths of today comfortably except TG's for being male or female, we should be celebrating it. This lecture feels uncomfortably like a mission and its not one that sits well with me.

[Jamie89]

Yes but gender identity isn't something thats assigned by chomosones so it comes down to how you chose to define man and woman I suppose

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LiamBB

Yes but gender identity isn't something thats assigned by chomosones so it comes down to how you chose to define man and woman I suppose

Well, the fact is that no person born biologically a woman has the Y chromosome. Transgender women do. That's the scientific fact. But like I say, that doesn't mean that if someone feels they are "in the wrong body" they should be denied that chance to live as they choose.

I'm not sure what Greer is thinking. Maybe like lostalex says she just being vicious, or maybe there's another agenda. I don't have much time for her in any case.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well, the fact is that no person born biologically a woman has the Y chromosome. Transgender women do. That's the scientific fact. But like I say, that doesn't mean that if someone feels they are "in the wrong body" they should be denied that chance to live as they choose.

I'm not sure what Greer is thinking. Maybe like lostalex says she just being vicious, or maybe there's another agenda. I don't have much time for her in any case.

She's a TWERP or whatever it is Josh said. These people who define themselves with acronyms or other such labels tend to follow a set of arbitrary "rules" that half of the time they don't have any real, well thought out, valid reasoning for. They are people who "choose" their pre-defined philosophies from a selection (usually online these days) and then "follow the rules" for the one they've chosen. This woman is a TARD so she believes that only women who are born women are women, because that's what everyone else with her prescribed belief system says.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Livia

Well, the fact is that no person born biologically a woman has the Y chromosome. Transgender women do. That's the scientific fact. But like I say, that doesn't mean that if someone feels they are "in the wrong body" they should be denied that chance to live as they choose.

I'm not sure what Greer is thinking. Maybe like lostalex says she just being vicious, or maybe there's another agenda. I don't have much time for her in any case.

Yeah I agree with the factual-ness (not a word) of that and I'm not a biology expert or anything but the way I view it, is that our chromosomes are only a part of what form us physically and so are only really relevant as a focal point when looking at how we are going to be formed, rather than using them retroactively as a definition of who we currently are(I'm not saying that's what you're doing I'm just speaking generally on the issue of chromosones being brought into things), when everything including psychology is taken into consideration. So having a particular chromosone might mean we develop a penis at the beginning but if at a later stage we decide to change that surgically due to psychological reasons then it becomes something that is irrelevant in determining who we are. They're kind of the building blocks but we're so complex that we're able to say, ok, my body formed in that way for that particular reason, but this is who I actually am. And so it just comes down to whether a person should be judged gender wise based on how they were initially formed, or its based on everything taken into consideration and more importantly imo, who they judge themselves to be. And although science can be used as a way of determining someones biological sex, it can't be used to determine someone's gender because it's not a physical thing that can be seen. If any of that makes sense lol

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LiamBB

Yes but gender identity isn't something thats assigned by chomosones so it comes down to how you chose to define man and woman I suppose

I don't see this as being as simple as genetics, the crux is that truly to identify as female there has to have been that transition from girl to woman as opposed to man to woman?

[the truth]

its generalized drivel about an entire group of people. she can say what she likes, ultimately shes driven by hate

[DemolitionRed]

I'm all for freedom of speech but if Greer is allowed to voice her view on tg's from a podium, that talk needs to be balanced by someone else with an opposing view.

My question to her would be, "what's your opinion on hermaphrodites? I bet that would throw the cat amongst the pigeons!

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm all for freedom of speech but if Greer is allowed to voice her view on tg's from a podium, that talk needs to be balanced by someone else with an opposing view.

My question to her would be, "what's your opinion on hermaphrodites? I bet that would throw the cat amongst the pigeons!

Honestly there is nowhere near as much divide between the genders as people make out - the only difference really would be masculinity and feminity - which are both caused by social influence.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I'm all for freedom of speech but if Greer is allowed to voice her view on tg's from a podium, that talk needs to be balanced by someone else with an opposing view.

My question to her would be, "what's your opinion on hermaphrodites? I bet that would throw the cat amongst the pigeons!

Then have it balanced don't just deny her the right to speak.

The issue is on transgender specifically male to female, I happen to agree with her when she suggests it is rather a patriarchal to give 'woman of the year' to someone that up until 4 months ago was a man.