[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

why should doctors be treated any differently to anyone else. They do a job, they get paid. If they don't like it, they can seek alternative employment.

Seek alternative employment such as what, private company-owned hospitals? Can you imagine the atrocity if every junior doctor did that.. the NHS would be driven to destruction. We cannot ignore them, for the sake of future generations' health especially those on lower incomes.

Their demands are not unreasonable. Jeremy Hunt is doing another magic trick by raising their pay by 11% while at the same time, docking pay for overtime and non-social hours, as well as night shifts. Their conditions are essentially the same thing rebranded. The whole purpose of this is so the right-wing press can portray the trade unions in a negative light yet again because of strikes, and the reason for these strikes is the government. So if you're going to blame anyone for inconveniences and disruption, it's Hunt who the anger should be aimed at.

[bots]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Seek alternative employment such as what, private company-owned hospitals? Can you imagine the atrocity if every junior doctor did that.. the NHS would be driven to destruction. We cannot ignore them, for the sake of future generations' health especially those on lower incomes.

Their demands are not unreasonable. Jeremy Hunt is doing another magic trick by raising their pay by 11% while at the same time, docking pay for overtime and non-social hours, as well as night shifts. Their conditions are essentially the same thing rebranded. The whole purpose of this is so the right-wing press can portray the trade unions in a negative light yet again because of strikes, and the reason for these strikes is the government. So if you're going to blame anyone for inconveniences and disruption, it's Hunt who the anger should be aimed at.

Everyone has a choice. They can go into other work that pays more money if that is what floats their boat. The point is there are choices, and the government are entitled to set out the terms under which employment is offered to those they are paying for.

The doctors won't win this one, and I am fully backing the government in bringing this mess under control.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Everyone has a choice. They can go into other work that pays more money if that is what floats their boat. The point is there are choices, and the government are entitled to set out the terms under which employment is offered to those they are paying for.

The doctors won't win this one, and I am fully backing the government in bringing this mess under control.

me too...under this plan 1) junior doctors and doctors work LESS hours a week 2) get paid more and 3) 10,000s more lives will be saved

end of

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

me too...under this plan 1) junior doctors and doctors work LESS hours a week 2) get paid more and 3) 10,000s more lives will be saved

end of

How... without recruitment of more doctors how is this possible, where in the 22 non negotiable conditions did it say they would work less and be paid more?

It's people with no working rights who suggest nobody else have them, why should they have what I don't...it's not fair, take them away immediately!
Or those who feel they are untouchable, which of course nobody is with this govt, as soon as their professions are affected we'll see a sharp change.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Everyone has a choice. They can go into other work that pays more money if that is what floats their boat. The point is there are choices, and the government are entitled to set out the terms under which employment is offered to those they are paying for.

The doctors won't win this one, and I am fully backing the government in bringing this mess under control.

They will…The GMC are presently receiving around 700 new applications a day from student doctors wishing to transfer overseas. They normally get around 20 a day. This means our best A level student who graduate from 5-6 years of gruelling study to get their medical degrees and who now face a further four years of being a junior doctor whilst paying back their tuition and indemnity fees, will likely choose a better alternative.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

They will…The GMC are presently receiving around 700 new applications a day from student doctors wishing to transfer overseas. They normally get around 20 a day. This means our best A level student who graduate from 5-6 years of gruelling study to get their medical degrees and who now face a further four years of being a junior doctor whilst paying back their tuition and indemnity fees, will likely choose a better alternative.

good. if that's where the heartless mercenaries want to go....thankfully they have to pay back their tuition fees

[Kizzy]

The service is stretched beyond capacity as it is, A&E waiting times are well over the target, how is expanding existing Drs and resources going to cope with a 24/7 service?
An 11% sweetener isn't the issue it's just not viable, Hunt is attempting to set them up to fail and they know this.

[Niamh.]

Well said Kirk

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well said Kirk

Thanks Niamh.

[Denver]

It does make me sick how Footballers get up to 300k a week and people that deserve the money get pretty much Feck all

[Gusto Brunt]

Who else thinks that Jeremy Hunt looks like Norman Bates?

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Gusto Brunt

Who else thinks that Jeremy Hunt looks like Norman Bates?

Who is Norman Bates anyway?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Who is Norman Bates anyway?

[AnnieK]

I very rarely agree with strike action but on this occasion it does seem to be the only option to make Hunt sit and think. If the terms of employment set out mean more junior doctors leave the profession, what then? Also I would much prefer a well rested doc tending to me and mine rather than one who may resort to self medicating to make it through a shift or has worked to the point of exhaustion. No one functions well under those circumstances and should a doctor be treating a patient mistakes can and will cost lives

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I very rarely agree with strike action but on this occasion it does seem to be the only option to make Hunt sit and think. If the terms of employment set out mean more junior doctors leave the profession, what then? Also I would much prefer a well rested doc tending to me and mine rather than one who may resort to self medicating to make it through a shift or has worked to the point of exhaustion. No one functions well under those circumstances and should a doctor be treating a patient mistakes can and will cost lives

Exactly^
If my dad was rushed to the emergency room with a ruptured bowl, I'd want an alert doctor to deal with him, not an exhausted one.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Exactly^
If my dad was rushed to the emergency room with a ruptured bowel, I'd want an alert doctor to deal with him, not an exhausted one.

Edited because my grammar and spelling is always a mess!

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Edited because my grammar and spelling is always a mess!

[the truth]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Exactly^
If my dad was rushed to the emergency room with a ruptured bowl, I'd want an alert doctor to deal with him, not an exhausted one.

on weekends under labour, you get no doctor in many parts

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I very rarely agree with strike action but on this occasion it does seem to be the only option to make Hunt sit and think. If the terms of employment set out mean more junior doctors leave the profession, what then? Also I would much prefer a well rested doc tending to me and mine rather than one who may resort to self medicating to make it through a shift or has worked to the point of exhaustion. No one functions well under those circumstances and should a doctor be treating a patient mistakes can and will cost lives

Hi AnnieK, great post, so good to see so many realising the govt is trying to pull a fast one here and that the junior Doctors have a real case.
Even the Consultants are backing them and that does not come easily believe me.
Hunt has made a massive mess of the whole thing and all he can do is threaten to impose the deal if they don't accept it voluntarily.
What arrogance and stupidity too.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Hi AnnieK, great post, so good to see so many realising the govt is trying to pull a fast one here and that the junior Doctors have a real case.
Even the Consultants are backing them and that does not come easily believe me.
Hunt has made a massive mess of the whole thing and all he can do is threaten to impose the deal if they don't accept it voluntarily.
What arrogance and stupidity too.

he is pretty charmless but morally he is in the right. the junior doctors must work compulsory some weekends to save 100000s of lives. most posts are motivated by tory hate here and do not talk about the FACT tens of thousands die at weekends because doctors wont work weekends and demand over time for doing so, something the nhs cannot afford. I love my fellow man more than I hate tories.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

he is pretty charmless but morally he is in the right. the junior doctors must work compulsory some weekends to save 100000s of lives. most posts are motivated by tory hate here and do not talk about the FACT tens of thousands die at weekends because doctors wont work weekends and demand over time for doing so, something the nhs cannot afford. I love my fellow man more than I hate tories.

You're confusing junior doctors with GPs aren't you?....

[Vicky.]

I cannot blame them tbh. I'm usually completely against strikes and such, but it really is needed this time.

[Vicky.]

More hours for less pay is never right though, and thats what he is proposing. Wonder if he would do any 'more' work (what is it he does anyways, besides insult working people?) for less pay and more importantly, NO expenses account

[DemolitionRed]

I take it you hold no value for public sector workers TheTruth ?

Whilst consultants and specialists and GP's get paid a lot more, junior doctors earn between £23,000-£28,000 which is more or less the same as a nurse or midwife who earn between £21,692 - £28,180.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I take it you hold no value for public sector workers TheTruth ?

Whilst consultants and specialists and GP's get paid a lot more, junior doctors earn between £23,000-£28,000 which is more or less the same as a nurse or midwife who earn between £21,692 - £28,180.

I take it you have no value for the tens of thousands of people who die on weekends because not enough doctors will work and those that do want double pay over time

as for your accusations I don't care about public sector workers, what a damned lie. that wage you quote above is a good wage for trainees. they will be on 6 figures after than for the rest of their career and many do private as well. so you can put your violin down. The public sector workers who I do have sympathy for are not doctors but firemen and some in the social services. but of course you label everyone a bigot if they don't agree with your tory hatred 24 hours a day