[the truth]

• Originally Posted by lostalex

  America did protect the UK from German invasion, and just as importantly stopped a complete Russian/Soviet invasion of western Europe. America really did singularly save the world in WW2. that's a fact.

lol yes and bruce willis was winston churchill

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by lostalex

America really did singularly save the world in WW2. that's a fact.

Oh I'm sure, if it wasn't for America, we would all be speaking German now. God bless America

[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by lostalex

America did protect the UK from German invasion, and just as importantly stopped a complete Russian/Soviet invasion of western Europe. America really did singularly save the world in WW2. that's a fact.

America only decided to enter the war when Pearl Harbour was bombed. Britain had been asking for the Yanks to help stop Hitler for a long time before they actually complied.
I am so sick of Americans thinking that they solely were responsible for every victory.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by lostalex

America did protect the UK from German invasion, and just as importantly stopped a complete Russian/Soviet invasion of western Europe. America really did singularly save the world in WW2. that's a fact.

All the Yanks did was fight the Japanese when they was attacked, had they not been attacked they would not of got involved it bloody sickens me that they try take full credit

[VanessaFeltz.]

History lessons should be objective and neutral. For example if british empire did something bad than it should be taught or if british empire did something good than it should be taught too.

Also If you live in a country you should know about every single culture which has been on the land not just only the dominant culture/country.

Unfortunately countries around the world are biased about their history so they dont tell history %100 objectively

[the truth]

OH BUT we cant possibly know the pure evil, rape and mass murder of the monarchy throughout their entire sick history

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So those Indians should have been grateful that the British took them over in the first place? ummm

Well I'd say India is much better off for having been a part of the Empire

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well I'd say India is much better off for having been a part of the Empire

Sorry Matt, i usually agree with your opinions but that's such a maddening statement. You were better off being invaded by us? whhhhaaattt. Would you feel the same if it were England having been taken over by the Germans or whatever? I doubt it very much. How could you possibly know what India would be like now if Britain had never gone near them in the first place? And regardless, that "you're better off" reasoning is just so offensive

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sorry Matt, i usually agree with your opinions but that's such a maddening statement. You were better off being invaded by us? whhhhaaattt. Would you feel the same if it were England having been taken over by the Germans or whatever? I doubt it very much. How could you possibly know what India would be like now if Britain had never gone near them in the first place? And regardless, that "you're better off" reasoning is just so offensive

I don't think its offensive because the Indians themselves played a huge part in how their country was run under the Empire. This is a good article by a British-Indian which gives a fair assessment: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...a-Empire-.html

A few of its points:

Of course, Empire was not a purely altruistic enterprise. Britain reaped enormous profits from India at the expense of its growth.

It prohibited industrialisation and kept the vast bulk of Indians in a state of abject poverty, growing cotton or mining metals that would then be sent to the factories and mills of northern England...

But these bleak facts should not obscure the fact that British rule in India was a joint effort, impossible without the widespread co- operation of Indians themselves...

Indians assisted with Empire because it brought them unprecedented order and civility. Indians were no strangers to outside rulers; for eight centuries before the Raj, the sub-continent had been subjected to the plunder and depravity of the Mughals - Muslim rulers who came from as far west as Turkey.
...

In 1846, the British commissioner, John Lawrence, told the local elite that Punjabis could no longer burn their widows, commit female infanticide, nor bury their lepers alive...

In addition to combating these barbaric practices, the British also outlawed slavery in 1843 at a time when an estimated 10 million Indians were slaves - up to 15 per cent of the population in some regions.
...

Yes, British rule was exploitative and took away more than it provided, but compared to what Indians had known previously, there was much to be thankful for.

This gratitude expressed itself in 1939 when, at the height of the independence movement led by Jawaharlal Nehru and Mahatma Gandhi, two million Indians nonetheless enlisted in the fight against fascism - the largest volunteer army in history.

It's no overstatement to say that, without the British, Indians would not even know what it is to be Indian.

After 800 years of Mughal rule, Hindu culture was in terminal decline and it was the likes of Warren Hastings and William Jones, the founders of the Asiatic Society, who began the collection and renewed study of India's ancient texts, educating Indians about their own rich and unique past...

For all they extracted from India, the British left behind a practical network of transportation, governance and values without which India would not be the dynamic democracy it is today.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...a-Empire-.html

[Livia]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well I'd say India is much better off for having been a part of the Empire

True.

The Empire did some dispicable things, but it also did some good things. India's system of government and it's railway system for a start. And of course, what took the place of the Empire - the Commonwealth - is a great institution. And anyone who thinks it isn't should ask themselves why countries who were never part of the Empire choose to be a part of the Commonwealth.

I think it's time we stopped being encouraged to beat ourselves up about things that were done decades, centuries, before our time while learning about what happened. But this means recognising the good as well as the bad. Lots of bad things were done in the past that should be remembered, but we should also keep in mind that, in the words of LP Hartley, the past is a different country, they do things differently there.

[bots]

We maybe didn't go about think entirely correctly, but all the countries involved progressed immensely and are reaping the benefits of being part of that empire today.

Its very easy to be super critical with the benefit of hindsight, hundreds of years on in civilisation

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

We maybe didn't go about think entirely correctly, but all the countries involved progressed immensely and are reaping the benefits of being part of that empire today.

Its very easy to be super critical with the benefit of hindsight, hundreds of years on in civilisation

As tax havens?
We're still as exploitative today as we ever were.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

We maybe didn't go about think entirely correctly, but all the countries involved progressed immensely and are reaping the benefits of being part of that empire today.

Its very easy to be super critical with the benefit of hindsight, hundreds of years on in civilisation

All we got from "the empire" was our language taken from us, our lands taken from us, our people starving to death on the streets eventhough there was plenty of food in Ireland at the time it was just shipped abroad to feed English people while our own people either starved or were forced to leave. And do tell what is "the correct" way to invade a country?

[the truth]

the british empire was horrific in many parts, just 100 years ago we invented concentration camps which lead to the deaths of tens of thousands

[Kizzy]

Oh 'the sins of the father' and so on and so forth... That's until it suits to do otherwise.

All that is being suggested is that history isn't creatively re written.
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

True.

The Empire did some dispicable things, but it also did some good things. India's system of government and it's railway system for a start. And of course, what took the place of the Empire - the Commonwealth - is a great institution. And anyone who thinks it isn't should ask themselves why countries who were never part of the Empire choose to be a part of the Commonwealth.

I think it's time we stopped being encouraged to beat ourselves up about things that were done decades, centuries, before our time while learning about what happened. But this means recognising the good as well as the bad. Lots of bad things were done in the past that should be remembered, but we should also keep in mind that, in the words of LP Hartley, the past is a different country, they do things differently there.

^^ Very easy to make a statement like that when your country was the oppressor in the scenario though..........

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

^^ Very easy to make a statement like that when your country was the oppressor in the scenario though..........

get over it, we forgave the romans.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

get over it, we forgave the romans.

How do we know the Romans invaded? It was taught.
There was no embellishment, no watering down of the facts and no bias.
If the teaching of British colonialism is as honest then that gets an A* from me.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

get over it, we forgave the romans.

Romans were a little bit longer ago though but cheers for the advice captain

[Niamh.]

Imagine saying, you know slavery wasn't so bad, those black people are better off now they live in America anyway........

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Imagine saying, you know slavery wasn't so bad, those black people are better off now they live in America anyway........

Good point Niamh.

[Beso]

he isn't asking for much, maybe some of the future academies will.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i am sure we will get round to it once the abject failure of communism and socialism have been dealt with

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i am sure we will get round to it once the abject failure of communism and socialism have been dealt with

Yes and while we sit and contemplate foreign govts owning our industry, infrastructure and property we can congratulate ourselves on how successful venture capitalism is.

[the truth]

whichever way its told, ghandi was an absolute legend and everyone should be taught about him..
the great pacifists of all time should be taught