[Livia]

LOL...

Aaaaaaanyhoo... you're a defeated people who work for us.

:-)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

LOL...

Aaaaaaanyhoo... you're a defeated people who work for us.

:-)

the number of scots who voted for Leave was pretty much identical to the number of Scots who voted SNP at the last election!

[Livia]

You are a complicated people.

[kirklancaster]

Liberty4Eva - This might explain and make things a little clear. (But probably not )

1. Int. Country Pub: Snug - Night

Nigel Farage and Nicola Sturgeon are sitting at a table sharing a bottle of wine.

NIGEL
(To Nicola)
Nicola, why do you want to leave the UK? It's just
causing trouble by holding another Scottish Independance Referendum.

NICOLA
(Frostily)
Because you English and Welsh have forced we Scots
to exit the Eu, when we want to remain.

NIGEL
(With bemusement)
But that's Democracy Nicola...And anyway, 39% of Scots
voted to leave.

NICOLA
(With rising annoyance)
Bugger Democracy. Why should you sassenachs dictate
what we do. Our future is with the EU, not the UK

NIGEL
So if you win a Scottish Independance Referendum,
you are going to take Scotland into the EU?

NICOLA
Too bloody true I am

NIGEL
(Shakes head)
But you'll hold an EU Referendum first, surely?

NICOLA
Aye, but I know we'll win that.

NIGEL
But not all Scots will vote to to enter the EU.
I mean....at least 39% won't, because they
voted to leave the EU in our Referendum.

NICOLA
What's your point?

NIGEL
(Nervous laugh)
Well.... Then you'll be forcing 39% of Scots to
be in the EU when they don't want to be.

NICOLA
Well that'll be their tough bloody luck. They'll
have to accept the result of the Referendum.
and go with the majority
(Glares at him)
That's bloody Democracy.

Nigel shrugs.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Liberty4Eva - This might explain and make things a little clear. (But probably not )

1. Int. Country Pub: Snug - Night

Nigel Farage and Nicola Sturgeon are sitting at a table sharing a bottle of wine.

NIGEL
(To Nicola)
Nicola, why do you want to leave the UK? It's just
causing trouble by holding another Scottish Independance Referendum.

NICOLA
(Frostily)
Because you English and Welsh have forced we Scots
to exit the Eu, when we want to remain.

NIGEL
(With bemusement)
But that's Democracy Nicola...And anyway, 39% of Scots
voted to leave.

NICOLA
(With rising annoyance)
Bugger Democracy. Why should you sassenachs dictate
what we do. Our future is with the EU, not the UK

NIGEL
So if you win a Scottish Independance Referendum,
you are going to take Scotland into the EU?

NICOLA
Too bloody true I am

NIGEL
(Shakes head)
But you'll hold an EU Referendum first, surely?

NICOLA
Aye, but I know we'll win that.

NIGEL
But not all Scots will vote to to enter the EU.
I mean....at least 39% won't, because they
voted to leave the EU in our Referendum.

NICOLA
What's your point?

NIGEL
(Nervous laugh)
Well.... Then you'll be forcing 39% of Scots to
be in the EU when they don't want to be.

NICOLA
Well that'll be their tough bloody luck. They'll
have to accept the result of the Referendum.
and go with the majority
(Glares at him)
That's bloody Democracy.

Nigel shrugs.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Liberty4Eva - This might explain and make things a little clear. (But probably not )

1. Int. Country Pub: Snug - Night

Nigel Farage and Nicola Sturgeon are sitting at a table sharing a bottle of wine.

NIGEL
(To Nicola)
Nicola, why do you want to leave the UK? It's just
causing trouble by holding another Scottish Independance Referendum.

NICOLA
(Frostily)
Because you English and Welsh have forced we Scots
to exit the Eu, when we want to remain.

NIGEL
(With bemusement)
But that's Democracy Nicola...And anyway, 39% of Scots
voted to leave.

NICOLA
(With rising annoyance)
Bugger Democracy. Why should you sassenachs dictate
what we do. Our future is with the EU, not the UK

NIGEL
So if you win a Scottish Independance Referendum,
you are going to take Scotland into the EU?

NICOLA
Too bloody true I am

NIGEL
(Shakes head)
But you'll hold an EU Referendum first, surely?

NICOLA
Aye, but I know we'll win that.

NIGEL
But not all Scots will vote to to enter the EU.
I mean....at least 39% won't, because they
voted to leave the EU in our Referendum.

NICOLA
What's your point?

NIGEL
(Nervous laugh)
Well.... Then you'll be forcing 39% of Scots to
be in the EU when they don't want to be.

NICOLA
Well that'll be their tough bloody luck. They'll
have to accept the result of the Referendum.
and go with the majority
(Glares at him)
That's bloody Democracy.

Nigel shrugs.

This odious little vindictive hate filled dwarf will not rest until she gets what SHE wants... and she wants to ruin Scotland.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

This odious little vindictive hate filled dwarf will not rest until she gets what SHE wants... and she wants to ruin Scotland.

It's too late to ruin Scotland, Scotland was decimated by Thatcher and will be unfixable for as long as there are Tory/Tory-lite-labour governments ruling the roost.

[erinp5]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

This odious little vindictive hate filled dwarf will not rest until she gets what SHE wants... and she wants to ruin Scotland.:nono:

and she will .

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Liberty4Eva - This might explain and make things a little clear. (But probably not )

1. Int. Country Pub: Snug - Night

Nigel Farage and Nicola Sturgeon are sitting at a table sharing a bottle of wine.

NIGEL
(To Nicola)
Nicola, why do you want to leave the UK? It's just
causing trouble by holding another Scottish Independance Referendum.

NICOLA
(Frostily)
Because you English and Welsh have forced we Scots
to exit the Eu, when we want to remain.

NIGEL
(With bemusement)
But that's Democracy Nicola...And anyway, 39% of Scots
voted to leave.

NICOLA
(With rising annoyance)
Bugger Democracy. Why should you sassenachs dictate
what we do. Our future is with the EU, not the UK

NIGEL
So if you win a Scottish Independance Referendum,
you are going to take Scotland into the EU?

NICOLA
Too bloody true I am

NIGEL
(Shakes head)
But you'll hold an EU Referendum first, surely?

NICOLA
Aye, but I know we'll win that.

NIGEL
But not all Scots will vote to to enter the EU.
I mean....at least 39% won't, because they
voted to leave the EU in our Referendum.

NICOLA
What's your point?

NIGEL
(Nervous laugh)
Well.... Then you'll be forcing 39% of Scots to
be in the EU when they don't want to be.

NICOLA
Well that'll be their tough bloody luck. They'll
have to accept the result of the Referendum.
and go with the majority
(Glares at him)
That's bloody Democracy.

Nigel shrugs.

Alright, that helps to educate me on their mentality. I haven't looked at the math, but I wouldn't be surprised that if the 39% that had voted out had voted in, Remain would have won. Thus, you could argue that those minority of Scots are to "blame" for Leave winning.

[user104658]

Can't believe no one's mentioned Scotland's crowning achievement tbh.

Irn Bru.

"what flavour is that? "

Its ****ing Irn Bru flavour.

[user104658]

Kirk aptly demonstrating that in his opinion, Scotland is simply a region of England.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirk aptly demonstrating that in his opinion, Scotland is simply a region of England.

How do you educe that? Scotland is a part of the United Kingdom.

My little satirical sketch demonstrates nothing more than the fact that Nicola Sturgeon is one huge hypocrite. It is a satirical sketch but like all satire uses humour to expose truth.

How, and, where, does it demonstrate that I regard Scotland a 'region of England'?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

NICOLA
(Frostily)
Because you English and Welsh have forced we Scots
to exit the Eu, when we want to remain.

NIGEL
(With bemusement)
But that's Democracy Nicola...And anyway, 39% of Scots
voted to leave.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

How do you educe that? Scotland is a part of the United Kingdom.

My little satirical sketch demonstrates nothing more than the fact that Nicola Sturgeon is one huge hypocrite. It is a satirical sketch but like all satire uses humour to expose truth.

How, and, where, does it demonstrate that I regard Scotland a 'region of England'?

In your example it is only democracy if you don't consider the Scottish vote as a separate entity; it is "democracy" across the UK. As a separate consideration, 38% of Scots voted to leave vs a clear majority of 62% voting to stay, and yet Scotland is out anyway, which is a clear failure of democracy (for Scotland) just as having a Tory government is a failure for Scotland when a clear majority does not want one.

Taking Scotland as a separate entity, all your actually doing is demonstrating perfectly how being part of the UK represents the OPPOSITE of "good democracy" for Scotland. We vote, our desires are clear, we get stuck with the thing that we didn't want anyway. English decisions will demonstrably always over-ride Scottish desires. Scotland does not have democracy. The only way for Scotland to have democracy, as an individual nation, is to be separate from England.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In your example it is only democracy if you don't consider the Scottish vote as a separate entity; it is "democracy" across the UK. As a separate consideration, 38% of Scots voted to leave vs a clear majority of 62% voting to stay, and yet Scotland is out anyway, which is a clear failure of democracy (for Scotland) just as having a Tory government is a failure for Scotland when a clear majority does not want one.

Taking Scotland as a separate entity, all your actually doing is demonstrating perfectly how being part of the UK represents the OPPOSITE of "good democracy" for Scotland. We vote, our desires are clear, we get stuck with the thing that we didn't want anyway. English decisions will demonstrably always over-ride Scottish desires. Scotland does not have democracy. The only way for Scotland to have democracy, as an individual nation, is to be separate from England.

I think that you are greatly confused:

The 'Scottish vote' is NOT a 'seperate entity', and here's why:

Because Scotland is still part of the United Kingdom, then the vote of any Scottish people in The UK EU Referendum, constitutes a vote by BRITISH subjects - the fact that they are Scottish and live in Scotland is irrelevant in this context, other than for simple identification purposes.

Being British subjects, Scottish people are constitutionally bound - in a Democracy - to accept the majority concensus in any election or referendum, exactly as English, Welsh and Northern Irish people have to.

Now, IF Scotland was ALREADY an INDEPENDENT COUNTRY, and 62% of Scottish people voted to become a member of the EU in a Scottish EU Referendum, against 38% of Scottish people who voted to stay out of the EU, then those 38% would be constitionally bound - in a Democracy - to accept the majority concensus.

Which is EXACTLY what the point of my satire is.

In a seperate Scotland which boasted Democracy, the minority in any official election or referendum, are going to be compelled to accept the majority concensus.

So Nicola Sturgeon, as Prime Minister of an independent Scotland, would be FORCING upon the MINORITY, or LOSING voters, the WILL of the MAJORITY, or WINNING voters - which is EXACTLY what the silly cow is whining about now.

As to your grouse about; "We vote, our desires are clear, we get stuck with the thing that we didn't want anyway." this is because you are a BRITISH subject living in a DEMOCRACY - the same as the rest of us English, Northern Irish, and Welsh subjects. Some of us, are often among the minority in elections, but we are bound to accept such a fact. I did not vote for Cameron and the Tories for instance, nor did I ever vote to join the Common Market/EU.

I WANT Scotland to hold another Independence Referendum, and if she does, and the result is that she gains her independence, then all well and good. I have no arguments.

Until then, however, you and the rest of Scotland are NOT independent, and as such, you are bound by the same laws and regulations as the rest of us.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

NICOLA
(Frostily)
Because you English and Welsh have forced we Scots
to exit the Eu, when we want to remain.

NIGEL
(With bemusement)
But that's Democracy Nicola...And anyway, 39% of Scots
voted to leave.

Nigel shrugs.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirk aptly demonstrating that in his opinion, Scotland is simply a region of England.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I think that you are greatly confused:

The 'Scottish vote' is NOT a 'seperate entity', and here's why:

Because Scotland is still part of the United Kingdom, then the vote of any Scottish people in The UK EU Referendum, constitutes a vote by BRITISH subjects - the fact that they are Scottish and live in Scotland is irrelevant in this context, other than for simple identification purposes.

Being British subjects, Scottish people are constitutionally bound - in a Democracy - to accept the majority concensus in any election or referendum, exactly as English, Welsh and Northern Irish people have to.

Now, IF Scotland was ALREADY an INDEPENDENT COUNTRY, and 62% of Scottish people voted to become a member of the EU in a Scottish EU Referendum, against 38% of Scottish people who voted to stay out of the EU, then those 38% would be constitionally bound - in a Democracy - to accept the majority concensus.

Which is EXACTLY what the point of my satire is.

In a seperate Scotland which boasted Democracy, the minority in any official election or referendum, are going to be compelled to accept the majority concensus.

So Nicola Sturgeon, as Prime Minister of an independent Scotland, would be FORCING upon the MINORITY, or LOSING voters, the WILL of the MAJORITY, or WINNING voters - which is EXACTLY what the silly cow is whining about now.

As to your grouse about; "We vote, our desires are clear, we get stuck with the thing that we didn't want anyway." this is because you are a BRITISH subject living in a DEMOCRACY - the same as the rest of us English, Northern Irish, and Welsh subjects. Some of us, are often among the minority in elections, but we are bound to accept such a fact. I did not vote for Cameron and the Tories for instance, nor did I ever vote to join the Common Market/EU.

I WANT Scotland to hold another Independence Referendum, and if she does, and the result is that she gains her independence, then all well and good. I have no arguments.

Until then, however, you and the rest of Scotland are NOT independent, and as such, you are bound by the same laws and regulations as the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirk aptly demonstrating that in his opinion, Scotland is simply a region of England.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

The 'Scottish vote' is NOT a 'seperate entity'

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirk aptly demonstrating that in his opinion, Scotland is simply a region of England.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

The 'Scottish vote' is NOT a 'seperate entity'

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirk aptly demonstrating that in his opinion, Scotland is simply a region of England.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

How do you educe that?

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

The 'Scottish vote' is NOT a 'seperate entity'

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirk. Demonstrating. Opinion. Scotland is simply a region of England.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

How educe dat doe?

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

The 'Scottish vote' is NOT a 'seperate entity'

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

The 'Scottish vote' is NOT a 'seperate entity'

FFS Kirk you're breaking TiBB with your circular ****, you could just have admitted that I was right;

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirk aptly demonstrating that in his opinion, Scotland is simply a region of England.

in the first place

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In your example it is only democracy if you don't consider the Scottish vote as a separate entity; it is "democracy" across the UK. As a separate consideration, 38% of Scots voted to leave vs a clear majority of 62% voting to stay, and yet Scotland is out anyway, which is a clear failure of democracy (for Scotland) just as having a Tory government is a failure for Scotland when a clear majority does not want one.

Taking Scotland as a separate entity, all your actually doing is demonstrating perfectly how being part of the UK represents the OPPOSITE of "good democracy" for Scotland. We vote, our desires are clear, we get stuck with the thing that we didn't want anyway. English decisions will demonstrably always over-ride Scottish desires. Scotland does not have democracy. The only way for Scotland to have democracy, as an individual nation, is to be separate from England.

Absolutely right.

The UK is made up of 4 separate Nations, just because one has far more population should not diminish the voting power, status and rights of the others.

In this referendum and the PM has to take blame for not putting locks on how to make the result binding.
It should have been the separate wishes of the 4 Nations that was taken into account.

Otherwise what we have is a dictatorship over the other Nations of the UK where the larger populated one always rules supreme.
However the PM did not put any locks on the vote so this is where we are.

However yes England from its population voted to leave the EU.
Wales voted to leave the EU by 52.5% to 47.5%.

Northern Ireland voted 56% to 44% to remain in the EU and as you say Scotland voted 62% to 38% to remain also.

There was no majority of the Nations to leave but we are leaving only because of the voting strength of the population of England.
So Scotland has every right to feel democracy, 'true democracy that is', as to size not being the main factor but equality of status,, has been extremely ill served.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Absolutely right.

The UK is made up of 4 separate Nations, just because one has far more population should not diminish the voting power, status and rights of the others.

In this referendum and the PM has to take blame for not putting locks on how to make the result binding.
It should have been the separate wishes of the 4 Nations that was taken into account.

Otherwise what we have is a dictatorship over the other Nations of the UK where the larger populated one always rules supreme.
However the PM did not put any locks on the vote so this is where we are.

However yes England from its population voted to leave the EU.
Wales voted to leave the EU by 52.5% to 47.5%.

Northern Ireland voted 56% to 44% to remain in the EU and as you say Scotland voted 62% to 38% to remain also.

There was no majority of the Nations to leave but we are leaving only because of the voting strength of the population of England.
So Scotland has every right to feel democracy, 'true democracy that is', as to size not being the main factor but equality of status,, has been extremely ill served.

Sensible debate - Wherefore art thou?

I will not respond Joey, because I said it all in detail in the post which you and T.S seem to have so much diificulty with.

There is no debate to be had - it is all now TRUTHFULLY just a case of you following the threads and agreeing with whatever your cronies say - no matter how ludicrous that may be.

And you are the one who pledged acceptance of the DEMOCRATIC result of the Referendum.

[the truth]

Well its all a tad confusing, in general it seems they think they can do good deals with the EU and prefer to deal with them than westminster. theyre still furious about thatchers decimation of the industries. the scots have their own laws , print their own money and have a pretty big bank too....theyre much wealthier than northern ireland or wales and have more land oil and resources. they also have a world class education system and tend to be knowledgeable people many with leanings to communist sympathies... so taking all that into acocunt, they have a better chance of going it alone. quite how they can cook a good eu deal I dont know. they seem to think england is too controlled by the idiot tabloids and the elite 1%. they have a few billion worth of oil at their fingertips but it is diminishing. if they leave, theyd need to join the euro, put up borders, sign up to open movement of people and all the other 60,000 pages of laws and rules. I think sturgeon has blown it a bit with her ill timed call for another referendum tbh. the next step for the scots is to be in charge of all their own tax afdairs and withdraw from the barnett formula and fuund their own country. the uk government has to tread careful thought, they have been so london ccentric for so long they may get a kick in the privates even harder than we gave the EU. people everywhere are sick of the elite in their little back scratching bubble creating an unfair society where the rich take over everything

[Johnnyuk123]

Put that wall up now before LT gets across the border!
Release the hounds!

[empire]

the thing is that, the snp and nicola sturgeon have been trying to con the scottish voters into that if the scots are independent tomorrow, the EU will open their arms too them, but the EU has no interest in them if they separate from the united kingdom, or their partnership with england, because where is the eu going to find the money to keep scotland's economy afloat when england leaves the EU, last time it made more sense that england and wales where members of the eu state, and that means scotland would of won their vote, and got full eu membership but england and wales are going out of the eu, so scotland does not fit into the eu's plans now,

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by empire

the thing is that, the snp and nicola sturgeon have been trying to con the scottish voters into that if the scots are independent tomorrow, the EU will open their arms too them, but the EU has no interest in them if they separate from the united kingdom, or their partnership with england, because where is the eu going to find the money to keep scotland's economy afloat when england leaves the EU, last time it made more sense that england and wales where members of the eu state, and that means scotland would of won their vote, and got full eu membership but england and wales are going out of the eu, so scotland does not fit into the eu's plans now,

Very well put.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by empire

the thing is that, the snp and nicola sturgeon have been trying to con the scottish voters into that if the scots are independent tomorrow, the EU will open their arms too them, but the EU has no interest in them if they separate from the united kingdom, or their partnership with england, because where is the eu going to find the money to keep scotland's economy afloat when england leaves the EU, last time it made more sense that england and wales where members of the eu state, and that means scotland would of won their vote, and got full eu membership but england and wales are going out of the eu, so scotland does not fit into the eu's plans now,

Breaking news: empire from TiBB finds a folder documenting "the EU's plans" on a train.

Please do share them empire! We await with much trepidation...