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Kazanne · 03-03-2019, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

I find it strange that the family of one of the alleged victims accepted £15million and signed a non-disclosure agreement. So I hope the Jackson family will be seeking reimbursement because all I've heard so far against Jackson is hearsay, uncorroborated claims and that he paid people not to go to the press. That doesn't make him guilty. He was odd, I think everyone can agree with that... but I still don't believe there was any abuse, and until I see hard evidence I'm keeping off bandwagon. I remember the furore when Cliff Richard was arrested, at least he was able to provide evidence against the claims. But why, like in this case, wait till people are dead?

As for the BBC, I remember the appalling coverage of Cliff Richard's investigation that the BBC thought was acceptable... and it cost them several million. It was a knee jerk reaction from the BBC because it had allowed Saville to prey on kids for decades. Now they're playing it safe.

100% Livia you put it so much better than I , the press /media have always had it in for Jackson simply because he was different but most of the odd things were explained others simply exaggerated ,but some people seem to have had a deep hatred for him and relish in anything that outs him in a bad light,so this must be nectar to them, So many things don't add up, he was also found not guilty which people seem to overlook a lot, The guy is dead,let him rest in peace.

joeysteele · 03-03-2019, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

I find it strange that the family of one of the alleged victims accepted £15million and signed a non-disclosure agreement. So I hope the Jackson family will be seeking reimbursement because all I've heard so far against Jackson is hearsay, uncorroborated claims and that he paid people not to go to the press. That doesn't make him guilty. He was odd, I think everyone can agree with that... but I still don't believe there was any abuse, and until I see hard evidence I'm keeping off bandwagon. I remember the furore when Cliff Richard was arrested, at least he was able to provide evidence against the claims. But why, like in this case, wait till people are dead?

As for the BBC, I remember the appalling coverage of Cliff Richard's investigation that the BBC thought was acceptable... and it cost them several million. It was a knee jerk reaction from the BBC because it had allowed Saville to prey on kids for decades. Now they're playing it safe.

Brilliant post Livia.
Post of this thread for me.

Amy Jade · 03-03-2019, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia

I find it strange that the family of one of the alleged victims accepted £15million and signed a non-disclosure agreement. So I hope the Jackson family will be seeking reimbursement because all I've heard so far against Jackson is hearsay, uncorroborated claims and that he paid people not to go to the press. That doesn't make him guilty. He was odd, I think everyone can agree with that... but I still don't believe there was any abuse, and until I see hard evidence I'm keeping off bandwagon. I remember the furore when Cliff Richard was arrested, at least he was able to provide evidence against the claims. But why, like in this case, wait till people are dead?

As for the BBC, I remember the appalling coverage of Cliff Richard's investigation that the BBC thought was acceptable... and it cost them several million. It was a knee jerk reaction from the BBC because it had allowed Saville to prey on kids for decades. Now they're playing it safe.

Brilliant post

Shame the BBC never learned from the Saville or Cliff cases.

I 100% believe Michael was just a lost soul and surrounded himself with kids because he related to them because he was never allowed a childhood and was deeply unhappy so just wanted to see other children happy.

Tom4784 · 03-03-2019, 02:00 PM

I'm unsure what to think of it all tbh.

I believe victims should always be heard but I can't deny that the story of these alleged victims is made dubious by the fact that they previously stood up for him, not as children who could have still been under his sway had they been groomed. but as adults who would have carried that pain around and would have been put under a microscope for coming to MJ's defense.

It's a difficult one, I hope that these guys can find peace somehow in case their story is true because I don't think they'll ever get true justice simply because they've given people reason to doubt them.

Jessica. · 03-03-2019, 02:36 PM

He wasn't convicted though, I think it's a bit much to stop playing his music.

Vienna · 06-03-2019, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessica.

He wasn't convicted though, I think it's a bit much to stop playing his music.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/a...cusations.html

Exactly. He was never convicted but as usual the GP love to do trial by social media and hearsay and expect to be taken seriously. I’ll stick with the courts.

user104658 · 06-03-2019, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vienna

I’ll stick with the courts.

But when will you stick with your ban?

Marsh. · 06-03-2019, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But when will you stick with your ban?

Kazanne · 06-03-2019, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But when will you stick with your ban?

TS you seem very desperate to get the people who do not go with this story to believe it, when MJ was found innocent were the FBI , the police and anyone else who investigated it , were they all lying? he was found NOT guilty,just curious how some are happy to disbelieve the powers that be , but believe these men who are known liars, none of us will fully know ,but it seems some think they do ,like they were actually were there. I think it's a money making scheme, but we will never know but pretty strange they didn't come out while he was alive , too many discrepancies for me to believe 100 % that he was a paedophile ,I will watch the documentary but I have no doubt it's all made them tons of cash, plus no one has mentioned what about MJ children in all this , if he has never touched a kid inappropriately how horrible for them all this is.

user104658 · 06-03-2019, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazanne

TS you seem very desperate to get the people who do not go with this story to believe it, when MJ was found innocent were the FBI , the police and anyone else who investigated it , were they all lying? he was found NOT guilty,just curious how some are happy to disbelieve the powers that be , but believe these men who are known liars, none of us will fully know ,but it seems some think they do ,like they were actually were there. I think it's a money making scheme, but we will never know but pretty strange they didn't come out while he was alive , too many discrepancies for me to believe 100 % that he was a paedophile ,I will watch the documentary but I have no doubt it's all made them tons of cash, plus no one has mentioned what about MJ children in all this , if he has never touched a kid inappropriately how horrible for them all this is.

Honestly I'm not desperate for people to believe it, though I personally do believe it. I'm just keen for people to look at the whole picture objectively and not with blinkers on, and not to automatically assume it must not have happened because he was never convicted. Several boys / men have now said it happened (read my above post) - more have said it happened than have defended him - and the FBI and police did find evidence - pictures for one, and a staff member who stated that she saw Jackson getting out of his shower with a boy is another - just not enough evidence to secure a conviction. I know many people put a lot of stock in that, but the legal system (for a good reason) is set up so that things must be proven beyond reasonable dount, which means that even if courts and juries think someone is "probably guilty" that's not enough for a guilty verdict, the proof has to be concrete and in this case he was very careful. It means nothing regarding whether or not his conduct was questionable.

There is in fact a brief snippet in the documentary of one of the jury members who makes it pretty clear that they found it all highly suspect - but had to return a not guilty verdict due to the lack of physical evidence.

Anyway... like I said, I'd just prefer if people could make up their own mind with full reasoning after actually watching it and reading up on the trials and other statements that are available, rather than just assuming. "He wasn't convicted so that's that!" is never going to be enough for me. I guess it's OK if it is for other people but there's no real point continuing to argue that one.

Beso · 03-03-2019, 03:35 PM

Horrible man...feal sorry for him if the stories about him being buggered as a child are true..but to then go onto gods knows what as an adult just makes me hate him for the sick pedo he is...one of the worst kind cause he knows the pain.

Northern Monkey · 03-03-2019, 07:30 PM

I always wanted to believe Whacko was innocent.
I spent alot of my childhood listening to his tunes.My first ever cassette was ‘Bad’ when it had just released.
It was a big disappointment when the allegations came out.

I suppose nobody can ever know the truth now he’s gone.

Jake. · 03-03-2019, 07:34 PM

I believe he was an absolute nonce (and the “he didn’t have a childhood” excuse is bogus) but that’s not going to stop me listening to his music. He was a great artist.

Ramsay · 03-03-2019, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake.

I believe he was an absolute nonce (and the “he didn’t have a childhood” excuse is bogus) but that’s not going to stop me listening to his music. He was a great artist.

Pretty much

Mokka · 03-03-2019, 07:55 PM

Welcome to our current social norms:

Accused of sexual misconduct
Put on trial
Cleared of charges
Dies
Reaccused
Found guilty in the court of public perception

I just dont know what the point of any of it is now

MTVN · 03-03-2019, 10:06 PM

I'm kinda surprised at the support for him tbh: combine everything - all the things he definitely said and did, all the reports of people about what they saw and all the testimonies of those who were abused - and it's obvious that the most likely conclusion is that he did abuse young boys

Niamh. · 03-03-2019, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

I'm kinda surprised at the support for him tbh: combine everything - all the things he definitely said and did, all the reports of people about what they saw and all the testimonies of those who were abused - and it's obvious that the most likely conclusion is that he did abuse young boys

People don't want to believe because they like his music imo

MTVN · 03-03-2019, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

People don't want to believe because they like his music imo

Yeah I think so too

joeysteele · 03-03-2019, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

People don't want to believe because they like his music imo

No, I think it's as Livia says and pointed out strongly in her post.

There are dubious actions from those complaining.
Why wait until he isn't alive too.

He's had trials, where were these people then.
Even Macauley Culkin was at a trial.

He may have been strange, however there's not in my view any justification for ceasing to play his music.

I mean love or hate Michael Jackson, you cannot cover music history or charts from the 70s to the 2000s leaving out this extremely huge star and influence in music.

Even moreso when he isn't here to be submitted to these accusations, especially after being thoroughly investigated and tried years ago.
Cleared in effect too.

Niamh. · 04-03-2019, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele

No, I think it's as Livia says and pointed out strongly in her post.

There are dubious actions from those complaining.
Why wait until he isn't alive too.

He's had trials, where were these people then.
Even Macauley Culkin was at a trial.

He may have been strange, however there's not in my view any justification for ceasing to play his music.

I mean love or hate Michael Jackson, you cannot cover music history or charts from the 70s to the 2000s leaving out this extremely huge star and influence in music.

Even moreso when he isn't here to be submitted to these accusations, especially after being thoroughly investigated and tried years ago.
Cleared in effect too.

I never said they should stop playing his music. I loved his music back in the 80's/90's too, it was fantastic. I'm also not suggesting a dead man should go on trial, what's the point? All I'm saying is he had a very odd relationship with children and imo there probably was something funny going on, I thought that when he was alive also

Kazanne · 04-03-2019, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

People don't want to believe because they like his music imo

You could also say ,people want to believe it because they didn't like him

Cherie · 04-03-2019, 08:08 AM

I will wait to see what this new documentary raises, though the fact that these two appear to have previously lied under oath should be raising some kind of red flags.

The BBC's reaction is ludicrous, he has not been convicted of anything....