[Redway]

Originally Posted by Cal.

Ronnie and Roxy’s deaths.

And the show is really suffering without Stacey atm whilst Lacey Turner is on maternity leave.

Do you think she’s more indispensable than Phil Mitchell?

[Marsh.]

Stacey doesn't really do much when she's there. Just gets a ludicrously stupid exit story when she's taking a break.

Like Phil. Doesn't do anything at all but decides to take 6 months off when he actually has a storyline.

[Marsh.]

Killing everyone off is its main problem.

When you look at the family groups and think of all the former members of it and 90% of them are deceased then it's a problem.

There's literally Janine and Grant in terms of possible major returns for the future. And Sam bloody Mitchell who is about as useful as Lola.

[Nancy.]

I've been on and off with Eastenders for years, but always watched out of habit (like Corrie). The new years episode where they killed off Roxie and Ronnie in one fell swoop was utterly ridiculous. What with that and stupid "duff duff's" like Denise boiling pasta, you just knew EE has reached it's lowest point.

[Redway]

I’d have no problem with Sam coming back if Kim Medcalf resumes Marsh. She made that character her own and she’s more relevant than Janine at the moment.

I agree Stacey should’ve stayed away after her first exit.

[Amy Jade]

I liked the Denise storyline when she had no money, the writers just handled it very poorly and yeah we understood she was too proud to admit that she was struggling but it just became tedious.

Diane Parish in general needs more screen time and a meaty storyline because she is one of the best actresses on the show. They need to bring sassy Chelsea back.

[Cal.]

Originally Posted by Redway

Do you think she’s more indispensable than Phil Mitchell?

Certainly!

[Redway]

That reverse image of Dennis Rickman dying in the last episode of 2005 and Deano Wicks popping up in the next episode’s probably the most jarring transition period there’s ever been. It took a while for EastEnders to properly get going again and even in the first half of Santer’s era those dodgy hangover characters (Gus, Naomi, Mickey Miller) kept it in 2006 zones tonally up until the last of them were weeded out and Lucas/Danielle started coming into their own. That’s when Santer’s era began in its quintessential form.

That 2006/2007-mid-2008 period I just see as a transition between Harwood and Santer and that era doesn’t have much in common tonally with the Archie/Chryed era that most people think of when they remember Santer.

[Nancy.]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Diane Parish in general needs more screen time and a meaty storyline because she is one of the best actresses on the show. They need to bring sassy Chelsea back.

Yes, I agree. I'm not sure what the writers are playing at with her at the moment. She hasn't had a decent storyline since Kate Oates came onboard, although, I did enjoy her recent scenes with Patrick and Sheree. It's a shame they've never brought Chelsea back. I'd much rather see her than the god awful Squiggle.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Nancy.

Yes, I agree. I'm not sure what the writers are playing at with her at the moment. She hasn't had a decent storyline since Kate Oates came onboard, although, I did enjoy her recent scenes with Patrick and Sheree. It's a shame they've never brought Chelsea back. I'd much rather see her than the god awful Squiggle.

She hasn’t had a story of note since Owen/Lucas tbh. You can’t blame Oates and Sen for everything.

[Amy Jade]

I'd like them to explore something between Jack and Denise, I like them together but we need something to go on to bring them together more - feels like a relationship out of nowhere.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

I'd like them to explore something between Jack and Denise, I like them together but we need something to go on to bring them together more - feels like a relationship out of nowhere.

Your wish was their command. Even-though Jack was a toxic bastard to Denise for a whole year until she made her own story-stakes with The Six. 2023-Jack is a disrespectful, borderline-abusive scumbag.

[GoldHeart]

I'll be honest,I haven't watched EE for 15 years. But what made me lose interest was the horrible baby swap storyline with Ronnie & Kat's babies. That was too far imo .

And I hated how Ronnie's character just kept going through depressing trauma. It felt like the writers had something against her . She's reunited with Danielle her long lost daughter ..boom she gets hit by a car and dies of course.


And hearing about how they killed off her & Roxy is just so ridiculous .

[Beso]

Probably when I forcibly told everyone on TIBB Stacey killed Archie, and nobody believed me.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I'll be honest,I haven't watched EE for 15 years. But what made me lose interest was the horrible baby swap storyline with Ronnie & Kat's babies. That was too far imo .

And I hated how Ronnie's character just kept going through depressing trauma. It felt like the writers had something against her . She's reunited with Danielle her long lost daughter ..boom she gets hit by a car and dies of course.


And hearing about how they killed off her & Roxy is just so ridiculous .

The 2010s was a wretched decade, with the baby-swap being the most-complained-about storyline to date (if I’m not mistaken) and … yeah. Ronnie and Roxy. Personally, I thought Ronnie was past her sell-by date by then and played out completely but her last few months were a certain kind of calm before the storm. The problem is they didn’t write Ronnie as they did in late 2016 after her first 18 months on the show. The way Danielle died and the effect it had on her was the beginning of the end and she went from being the fresh, vibrant, slightly mysterious breath of fresh air she was up-until that point to drowned in all things tragic, making holes in condoms and swapping babies (the culmination of it). 2014, give-but-not-take 2 months on either side, it … yeah. Only really decent year of the 2010s.

Chris Clenshaw was the last EP before the new guy (Ben Wadey) and he managed to give EastEnders the best era in at-least 15 years but Ben Wadey seems to be hell-bent on taking it back to the sh*te-fest. People who take the time to post on forums like Digital Spy and Walford Web are a very special kind of fan who know their way around their soaps in a timeless way, regardless of age, but otherwise, being an actual executive producer for a flagship-show (well, that it was in its prime, anyway) takes a fair bit of experience that a fresh 30-year-old won’t have. If he was immersed in the forum-dissection of these shows at any point, that would be something to go on in the absence of not too much experience but he doesn’t seem to have either. Hollyoaks-experience counts for almost nothing on a show like EastEnders. I saw through his credentials and knew he was going to be crap as soon as it was announced he’d be taking over and he’s not proved me, or any of the other people who were also skeptical about him right from the start, wrong so-far. His era reminds me of 2011/12, where Kat and Alfie were at their most toxic, Stacey was either going (and very unlikeable throughout most of 2010; having her kill Archie was … well, it could’ve been better-planned long-term) or gone, the new Moons, Joey incest-banging his cousin and Max being a sleazy stud just for the sake of it (Stacey/Max was different). And that’s not where EastEnders needs to be after Clenshaw turned it around so much and gave it some reputation after 10 solid years (minus the Who-Killed-Lucy year) of total crap.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Daniel-X

There’s been a noticeable change since Santer’s era came to an end (funnily enough the first era of the show I watched as a child). Kirkwood made the show into a glorified version of Hollyoaks with mainly decent actors but terrible storylines/horrible new characters introduced (see: Antony, Joey, Alice, Derek, Tyler, Vanessa and Jodie). Newman wasn’t actually too bad, she didn’t do any damage to the show but it was just incredibly boring and not EastEnders.

I’d argue DTC has been the most detrimental to the show, it was more watchable under him than Kirkwood and Newman but the lengths he took the show to to create a ‘fanfic’ version of EastEnders for himself were ridiculous. The whole Who Killed Lucy? storyline is one the show will never recover from now.

Less said about SOC and Yorke 2.0 the better.

It’s finally back on track under Sen & Oates but even then it’s not without it flaws, but it’s definitely the best the show has been since Santer. They need to get a grasp of the actual history of the show more but it’s decent.

Yeah, this really didn’t age well. But we weren’t to know at the time, were we? SenFX took many of us by surprise.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Redway

The 2010s was a wretched decade, with the baby-swap being the most-complained-about storyline to date (if I’m not mistaken) and … yeah. Ronnie and Roxy. Personally, I thought Ronnie was past her sell-by date by then and played out completely but her last few months were a certain kind of calm before the storm. The problem is they didn’t write Ronnie as they did in late 2016 after her first 18 months on the show. The way Danielle died and the effect it had on her was the beginning of the end and she went from being the fresh, vibrant, slightly mysterious breath of fresh air she was up-until that point to drowned in all things tragic, making holes in condoms and swapping babies (the culmination of it). 2014, give-but-not-take 2 months on either side, it … yeah. Only really decent year of the 2010s.

Chris Clenshaw was the last EP before the new guy (Ben Wadey) and he managed to give EastEnders the best era in at-least 15 years but Ben Wadey seems to be hell-bent on taking it back to the sh*te-fest. People who take the time to post on forums like Digital Spy and Walford Web are a very special kind of fan who know their way around their soaps in a timeless way, regardless of age, but otherwise, being an actual executive producer for a flagship-show (well, that it was in its prime, anyway) takes a fair bit of experience that a fresh 30-year-old won’t have. If he was immersed in the forum-dissection of these shows at any point, that would be something to go on in the absence of not too much experience but he doesn’t seem to have either. Hollyoaks-experience counts for almost nothing on a show like EastEnders. I saw through his credentials and knew he was going to be crap as soon as it was announced he’d be taking over and he’s not proved me, or any of the other people who were also skeptical about him right from the start, wrong so-far. His era reminds me of 2011/12, where Kat and Alfie were at their most toxic, Stacey was either going (and very unlikeable throughout most of 2010; having her kill Archie was … well, it could’ve been better-planned long-term) or gone, the new Moons, Joey incest-banging his cousin and Max being a sleazy stud just for the sake of it (Stacey/Max was different). And that’s not where EastEnders needs to be after Clenshaw turned it around so much and gave it some reputation after 10 solid years (minus the Who-Killed-Lucy year) of total crap.

Yeah Stacy was a pain at times .

I always found Max irritating,his & Stacy's affair was ahem ....a choice let's just say . However the dvd explosive reveal was definitely one of the most dramatic outcomes so I'll give the EE writer's props for that . I'm surprised Dot didn't faint in shock ,she just wanted to watch the Queen's speech .

[Masterchief117]

I think the GOLDEN ERA of Eastenders is 1985-2005, and to be more specific, I think it went downhill after Dennis Rickman got killed off. From that moment the storylines felt more mundane and soapy, not to say that it got BAD then. Max/Stacey, Archie, Sean, ronnie and roxy etc. Are all great stuff.... but it lost something it never got back.

I think it truly went RAPIDLY downhill when the Carter's were introduced in 2013.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Masterchief117

I think the GOLDEN ERA of Eastenders is 1985-2005, and to be more specific, I think it went downhill after Dennis Rickman got killed off. From that moment the storylines felt more mundane and soapy, not to say that it got BAD then. Max/Stacey, Archie, Sean, ronnie and roxy etc. Are all great stuff.... but it lost something it never got back.

I think it truly went RAPIDLY downhill when the Carter's were introduced in 2013.

Yeah I wasn't a fan of them killing off Dennis Rickman, I actually think he had more depth and was more likeable .....than meat head thug Sean Slater .

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Masterchief117

I think the GOLDEN ERA of Eastenders is 1985-2005, and to be more specific, I think it went downhill after Dennis Rickman got killed off. From that moment the storylines felt more mundane and soapy, not to say that it got BAD then. Max/Stacey, Archie, Sean, ronnie and roxy etc. Are all great stuff.... but it lost something it never got back.

I think it truly went RAPIDLY downhill when the Carter's were introduced in 2013.

Something changed in 2006, I agree. Some people say it got that “classic” spark back when Clenshaw took over, something that was largely absent from 2006-2021, but even if that is the case, Wadey’s regressed it again. 2007-10 was still a decent block of years overall (2008 not so much, but it had its moments) and the bar is currently a lot lower than that. It’s really come undone this half of the year.

But as-for something happening to the sensibility of writing/characterisation and what realism was left in the show by then (Dirty Den’s return was just-about plausible, still), a lot of long-term/real-OG fans do notice a certain decline from 2006 onwards (which Clenshaw may or may not have repaired). Santer was good but the cut-off point for undisputed-classic vs. modern does seem to coalesce around 2006/07, and 2006 didn’t help itself with such a string of dodgy storylines and needless affairs (Pat./Patrick, Grant/Jane/Chelsea, Sonia/Naomi, Pauline’s character-assassination, the Kathy-blunder, although that got corrected 9 years later, thank-God-for-that). But there was also a fair bit about this year that’s enjoyable (Jean, before she becomes a sausage-surprise caricature under Santer and Kirkwood, still possessed of some grit, trying to reconnect with Stacey and Sean, getting to know Bradley, the Denise/Owen/Libby domestic-abuse storyline, Honey/Billy’s wedding and Janet’s Down’s Syndrome, Ian and Jane as a nice couple, the beginnings of Stax/Stella’s abuse of Ben and the May/Dawn/Rob triangle).

I’d personally still say 2008 was the worst year of the noughties because it started the trend for truly WTF storylines (Tanya burying Max alive and him getting run over by his 13-year-old daughter in the same year, Mad May coming back for no reason and blowing herself up courtesy of a cigarette), cursed Stax literally the day after the Xmas-reveal was over and just gave us endless affair-drama off the back of it, bla-bla-bla. Just one overly sensationalised story after the other, the weakest of Santer’s years. Things like Whitney/Tony, Frank’s funeral, the return of the Butchers (Bianca/Ricky-dem) and Janine’s bacon-sandwich wedding are just some scattered highlights of a below-par year. Also liked the week in Weymouth where Ronnie (who wasn’t drowned in misery at this point) bumps into Archie again (even if Archie did go on to bring out the very-worst in Peggy at one point), getting to know the likes of Lucas and Christian this year and … yeah. Just a few bits and bobs along the way. There’s some good in there but all-in-all it’s just a very, very messy year.

[Masterchief117]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yeah I wasn't a fan of them killing off Dennis Rickman, I actually think he had more depth and was more likeable .....than meat head thug Sean Slater .

Dennis Rickman is probably my all time favorite male character on EE. Amazing performance by NH, had incredible chemistry with Sharon, his twisted relationship with Den was really interesting, and his tragic backstop coming out in pieces over time really gave him depth.... oh, and his friendship with Dot was amazing, my favorite Dot friendship.

I thought Sean was great too though. But Dennis was a bad boy with a big heart underneath it all, Sean was more straight up an insane bully with deep seated self hatred and anger issues.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yeah I wasn't a fan of them killing off Dennis Rickman, I actually think he had more depth and was more likeable .....than meat head thug Sean Slater .

No but I liked Sean, a lot. I’d say he was a Sainsbury’s Dennis Rickman. Not too bad in comparison but he left before they had an opportunity to really flesh out some of his issues in detail.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Masterchief117

Dennis Rickman is probably my all time favorite male character on EE. Amazing performance by NH, had incredible chemistry with Sharon, his twisted relationship with Den was really interesting, and his tragic backstop coming out in pieces over time really gave him depth.... oh, and his friendship with Dot was amazing, my favorite Dot friendship.

I thought Sean was great too though. But Dennis was a bad boy with a big heart underneath it all, Sean was more straight up an insane bully with deep seated self hatred and anger issues.

I really like how Pat, Pauline and Dot kind of adopted certain people during this era. Pat and Andy Hunter, Pauline and Demi Miller, Dot and Dennis. All intriguing. Dem little surrogate-bonds.

[Masterchief117]

Originally Posted by Redway

Something changed in 2006, I agree. Some people say it got that “classic” spark back when Clenshaw took over, something that was largely absent from 2006-2021, but even if that is the case, Wadey’s regressed it again. 2007-10 was still a decent block of years overall (2008 not so much, but it had its moments) and the bar is currently a lot lower than that. It’s really come undone this half of the year.

But as-for something happening to the sensibility of writing/characterisation and what realism was left in the show by then (Dirty Den’s return was just-about plausible, still), a lot of long-term/real-OG fans do notice a certain decline from 2006 onwards (which Clenshaw may or may not have repaired). Santer was good but the cut-off point for undisputed-classic vs. modern does seem to coalesce around 2006/07, and 2006 didn’t help itself with such a string of dodgy storylines and needless affairs (Pat./Patrick, Grant/Jane/Chelsea, Sonia/Naomi, Pauline’s character-assassination, the Kathy-blunder, although that got corrected 9 years later, thank-God-for-that). But there was also a fair bit about this year that’s enjoyable (Jean, before she becomes a sausage-surprise caricature under Santer and Kirkwood, still possessed of some grit, trying to reconnect with Stacey and Sean, getting to know Bradley, the Denise/Owen/Libby domestic-abuse storyline, Honey/Billy’s wedding and Janet’s Down’s Syndrome, Ian and Jane as a nice couple, the beginnings of Stax/Stella’s abuse of Ben and the May/Dawn/Rob triangle).

I’d personally still say 2008 was the worst year of the noughties because it started the trend for truly WTF storylines (Tanya burying Max alive and him getting run over by his 13-year-old daughter in the same year, Mad May coming back for no reason and blowing herself up courtesy of a cigarette), cursed Stax literally the day after the Xmas-reveal was over and just gave us endless affair-drama off the back of it, bla-bla-bla. Just one overly sensationalised story after the other, the weakest of Santer’s years. Things like Whitney/Tony, Frank’s funeral, the return of the Butchers (Bianca/Ricky-dem) and Janine’s bacon-sandwich wedding are just some scattered highlights of a below-par year. Also liked the week in Weymouth where Ronnie (who wasn’t drowned in misery at this point) bumps into Archie again (even if Archie did go on to bring out the very-worst in Peggy at one point), getting to know the likes of Lucas and Christian this year and … yeah. Just a few bits and bobs along the way. There’s some good in there but all-in-all it’s just a very, very messy year.

I mean, I'd take 2006-2012 over any of the following years easily, but I certainly think Clenshaw improved the show from the state it had been for the previous few years. But it's not a patch on the golden era. I think a lot of the characters are plain or boring now too. EE killed off too many great characters in the past. Sometimes they made sense and made the characters arc better coming full circle, but it's still a shame.

Tiffany Mitchell, Steve Owen, Mel Owen, Hunter Owen, Dennis Rickman,Dennis Rickman Jr, Paul Trueman, PAT BUTCHER, Ronnie & Roxy, etc. Are all characters that could have made many returns in the future and brought a lot to the show.

Patrick's best storylines for me always involved Paul. What a shame he never even got to meet Denise. And also, bringing back Cindy became a total flop. She's just an awful character as they write her and a pretty bad actress, she's got nothing to do now. If they were gonna do a ridiculous storyline again of rising from the dead, they should have brought someone like Paul back, who died off-screen and was identified a month after by Patrick, but could have been explained as believable as Cindy's comeback.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Masterchief117

I mean, I'd take 2006-2012 over any of the following years easily, but I certainly think Clenshaw improved the show from the state it had been for the previous few years. But it's not a patch on the golden era. I think a lot of the characters are plain or boring now too. EE killed off too many great characters in the past. Sometimes they made sense and made the characters arc better coming full circle, but it's still a shame.

Tiffany Mitchell, Steve Owen, Mel Owen, Hunter Owen, Dennis Rickman,Dennis Rickman Jr, Paul Trueman, PAT BUTCHER, Ronnie & Roxy, etc. Are all characters that could have made many returns in the future and brought a lot to the show.

Patrick's best storylines for me always involved Paul. What a shame he never even got to meet Denise. And also, bringing back Cindy became a total flop. She's just an awful character as they write her and a pretty bad actress, she's got nothing to do now. If they were gonna do a ridiculous storyline again of rising from the dead, they should have brought someone like Paul back, who died off-screen and was identified a month after by Patrick, but could have been explained as believable as Cindy's comeback.

Honestly, Mel was so unwatchable under Yorke-2.0 and Oates that I wasn’t too bothered when she died, but I get what you mean.
What happened to Pat was just the worst. She asked for nothing more than a break and Kirkwood took that as his cue to kill her off. He floats in and around the show now as a surprisingly decent writer (who’s seemed to pause on the toxic shade of self-destruction Kat floated around when he was E.P.) but as executive producer? Couldn’t stand him.

And yes. Paul Trueman was a g.