[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I believe we should be counting all deaths cause these people may have died from a different illness whilst having covid, but if hey didnt have covid then they would maybe have had better care.

I also think the poor people who die because they couldn't get treatment because of full beds or health risks should also be added. As should the suicides brought on by isolation and a whole plethora of other reasons.

Yeah records like that would be useful. Feels awful to talk about people dying in that way like.

[Beso]

Well we halved the daily deaths today, so boris must have done double good if the deaths are his fault.

[user104658]

It's Monday, Sunday/Monday rates have always been lower.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's Monday, Sunday/Monday rates have always been lower.

That's a Tuesday when that happens

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

That's a Tuesday when that happens

no, Tuesday and Wednesday have always been the highest days when weekend numbers catch up. The numbers collated the previous day are reported, thus Sunday/Monday reports are Saturday/Sunday numbers, and are lower because hospital admin departments typically work Monday to Friday.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

no, Tuesday and Wednesday have always been the highest days when weekend numbers catch up. The numbers collated the previous day are reported, thus Sunday/Monday reports are Saturday/Sunday numbers, and are lower because hospital admin departments typically work Monday to Friday.

I always had that down as a tuesday..

[DouglasS]

Also U.K. are over counting our deaths by just including anyone with covid in their system within a month of their time of death, many of these will have been asymptotic and have died entirely of something else, many would have died anyway of other illnesses and they just happened to have covid. Most countries aren’t including these as true cases and so the data is not a true comparison between countries

It’s like saying China has the one of the lowest death rates of covid in the world, they’re just choosing not to record their deaths properly...

[Tom4784]

Whether we're first or fifth is irrelevant. The point is that the government are failing.

Crying about the economy is pointless, we're gonna suffer more the longer this is dragged out with half arsed measures by the government. Bleating about people needing to go to work and coming out of lockdown at this point will just ensure another one in a few weeks/months time.

[DouglasS]

If the title post was data used as part of a scientific journal/ assignment or data was presented in its fashion this way it’d get an F. Full of misleading information, incorrect title, redundant data being used as a comparison between countries. Definitely Daily Mail kind of reporting. As a scientist and published author it can be frustrating seeing posts/articles like this full of scaremongering, exaggeration and misinformation

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

If the title post was data used as part of a scientific journal/ assignment or data was presented in its fashion this way it’d get an F. Full of misleading information, incorrect title, redundant data being used as a comparison between countries. Definitely Daily Mail kind of reporting. As a scientist and published author it can be frustrating seeing posts/articles like this full of scaremongering, exaggeration and misinformation

[Tom4784]

Sounds like downplaying to me, you might find 5th worst in the world acceptable, but I do not.

[Beso]

What do other countries do?
The WHO recommendation is to report on death certification, which England will continue to do through the ONS. For daily reported death figures, there is no international consensus on methods.

[Elliot]

Congratulations Boris Johnson and the Tory majority

[Ammi]

...even though these figures aren’t overall and given at a time when we’re peaking, it’s still horrendous...we’re an island so being more decisive and ‘closing down’ was the key, while Boris dithered../...and decisions made for the economy...as awful as it is that livelihoods have been and will be lost because of this world catastrophe, there is nothing to be had or lost if there isn’t life as the first thing...

[Mystic Mock]

That's horrible news, although it's not a shock to me sadly.

I understand that Boris has to answer to people within his party so it's not entirely his fault, but the way that him and his party have handled this Pandemic is a disgrace, they prioritised Brexit over the wellbeing of their people.

I thought that they were a disgusting party under Cameron, but this is a new low for the Conservatives.

The only thing that's genuinely surprised me from that chart is that the USA isn't second.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think the OP is slightly misleading; this figure doesn't represent the full length of the pandemic, it is the number of deaths per million population in the last 7 days only... thus, places that are currently in a "dip" in the infection cycle will be low on the list, those currently "peaking" will be high, and the list order will change constantly over time.

As different countries are in different phases at different times... to be honest it's a bit of a meaningless stat. You can only really compare two countries if you compare the numbers for both at peak, which will not be in the same snapshot of time.

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

That's horrible news, although it's not a shock to me sadly.

I understand that Boris has to answer to people within his party so it's not entirely his fault, but the way that him and his party have handled this Pandemic is a disgrace, they prioritised Brexit over the wellbeing of their people.

I thought that they were a disgusting party under Cameron, but this is a new low for the Conservatives.

The only thing that's genuinely surprised me from that chart is that the USA isn't second.

you may have missed this post Mock

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

you may have missed this post Mock

Not really because as Dezzy's already said on the thread, first or fifth is an atrocious showing for the UK, especially considering the four countries above us have way bigger populations than us so we may as well be number one on the overall death list.

I'm sorry but either way Toy Soldier's argument doesn't really hold up in this scenario.

[Vanessa]

Italy is doing well at the moment.
I'm confident I can go on holiday this year.
But I will definitely have the vaccine.
Things will improve here, it will just take time.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Italy is doing well at the moment.
I'm confident I can go on holiday this year.
But I will definitely have the vaccine.
Things will improve here, it will just take time.

no, since even if you are vaccinated, you can still spread the virus onto others

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Italy is doing well at the moment.
I'm confident I can go on holiday this year.
But I will definitely have the vaccine.
Things will improve here, it will just take time.

Oh I agree Vanessa that things will improve over here, but it will be thanks to the Scientists and Doctors more than anything the Tories have done.

And I'm glad that Italy is doing better because they were the first victims outside of China to handle Covid head on.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Not really because as Dezzy's already said on the thread, first or fifth is an atrocious showing for the UK, especially considering the four countries above us have way bigger populations than us so we may as well be number one on the overall death list.



I'm sorry but either way Toy Soldier's argument doesn't really hold up in this scenario.

I wasn't even arguing that the UK has done well/badly/whatever I just don't like dodgy graphic and stats that are of limited use . I don't think a tiered list that shows a small snapshot of time is particularly useful for knowing how well things have been handled; too easy to manipulate. If the same graph had been posted in August it would have looked like The UK had done amazingly because our deaths per million per day were way down.

I agree that the UK's overall deaths per capita are an obvious indication that we have been hammered hard, especially if you adjust for scale. I think anyone being totally honest knows there are multiple reasons for that - London's status as an international travel hub and the overall density of population in the UK are two big and uncontrollable factors - but I'm not going to say that it's been handled well or that the numbers wouldn't very possibly be lower if it had been. The government struggled to "pick a lane" so they flipped and flopped between telling people to stay home, and encouraging people to get back out... Things like "eat out to help out" and the heavy push to get consumers back onto the high street was in hindsight disastrous.

My argument is ONLY that taking a short span of time and graphing "who was worst in that small snapshot" is not a particularly useful metric.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I wasn't even arguing that the UK has done well/badly/whatever I just don't like dodgy graphic and stats that are of limited use . I don't think a tiered list that shows a small snapshot of time is particularly useful for knowing how well things have been handled; too easy to manipulate. If the same graph had been posted in August it would have looked like The UK had done amazingly because our deaths per million per day were way down.

I agree that the UK's overall deaths per capita are an obvious indication that we have been hammered hard, especially if you adjust for scale. I think anyone being totally honest knows there are multiple reasons for that - London's status as an international travel hub and the overall density of population in the UK are two big and uncontrollable factors - but I'm not going to say that it's been handled well or that the numbers wouldn't very possibly be lower if it had been. The government struggled to "pick a lane" so they flipped and flopped between telling people to stay home, and encouraging people to get back out... Things like "eat out to help out" and the heavy push to get consumers back onto the high street was in hindsight disastrous.

My argument is ONLY that taking a short span of time and graphing "who was worst in that small snapshot" is not a particularly useful metric.

I get what you're saying, but to me the fact that we do badly in every type of death rate chart throughout most of the Pandemic does have to be taken seriously, even if the method of how the one on this thread has been counted is questionable.

To me if it was just a dodgy graphic or whatever I would be way less critical of the Tories handling of the disease, but sadly a lot of other graphics always show us high up on the death rates too.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Not really because as Dezzy's already said on the thread, first or fifth is an atrocious showing for the UK, especially considering the four countries above us have way bigger populations than us so we may as well be number one on the overall death list.

I'm sorry but either way Toy Soldier's argument doesn't really hold up in this scenario.

I totally agree with you Mock.

Also as to your other post of this being an even nastier, cruel( that's my addition to your words), Con party under Johnson.

I actually, liked Michael Howard as Con Leader.
I think the rot started to set in again more forcefully as to deceit under Cameron.
It was actually Theresa May who stated he party was being seen as the nasty party.

Cameron caved in to the anti EU extremist side of the party, which John Major had fought to sideline particularly on the EU.

Theresa May had little control and things just got worse and nastier under her farcical leadership.

However Johnson has taken deceit, heartlessness and blatant cruelty to a new low in the Con party.
Particularly on the handling of both brexit and covid.
.

His refusal to even meet with bereaved families is and should be a national scandal as should be our death rates.
There was kind of lauding of the government when Italy stepped ahead of us on official deaths from covid.
Now we are heading to near 15,000 more deaths again than Italy.

It is shocking, and largely caused by the failure to prepare and protect properly and for longer by this government.
Their procrastination in vital decision making also adding to the problem of unnecessary deaths of loved ones.

I can't wait for the proper inquiry into this which I hope all other Parties insist on..
Despite Johnson trying to hold back on that.
When all those bereaved families, and other groups who know all that's been done wrong can present all to the said inquiry, when it eventually comes.
Which it will and I can't wait.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I totally agree with you Mock.

Also as to your other post of this being an even nastier, cruel( that's my addition to your words), Con party under Johnson.

I actually, liked Michael Howard as Con Leader.
I think the rot started to set in again more forcefully as to deceit under Cameron.
It was actually Theresa May who stated he party was being seen as the nasty party.

Cameron caved in to the anti EU extremist side of the party, which John Major had fought to sideline particularly on the EU.

Theresa May had little control and things just hot worse and nastier under her farcical leadership.

However Johnson has taken deceit, heartlessness and blatant cruelty to a new low in the Con party.
Particularly on the handling of both brexit and covid.
.

His refusal to even meet with bereaved families is and should be a national scandal as should be our death rates.
There was kind of lauding of the government when Italy stepped ahead of us on official deaths from covid.
Now we are heading to near 15,000 more deaths again than Italy.

It is shocking, and largely caused by the failure to prepare and protect properly and for longer by this government.
Their procrastination in vital decision making also adding to the problem of unnecessary deaths of loved ones.

I can't wait for the proper inquiry into this which I hope all other Parties insist on..
Despite Johnson trying to hold back on that.
When all those bereaved families, and other groups who know all that's been done wrong can present all to the said inquiry, when it eventually comes.
Which it will and I can't wait.

I liked Michael Howard too (and John Major when I've heard him speak) but sadly they're seen as too soft by some of the public because they don't want to be inhumane psychopaths who have a fetish of playing the buffoon.

And I'm interested in the inquiry too Joey.

[Vanessa]

I think it's because of the new variant, which is a lot more contagious.