[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

What is "living as a woman"?

Having the same rights has a woman that was born female

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

What is "living as a woman"?

This is of course where a lot of it starts to fall apart because it is of course based on personality stereotyping... and any logical arguments for it very quickly start to conflict with themselves let alone with counter-arguments. For example, the concept of the gender non-binary is largely incompatible with the concept of trans. One argues against the other in really very basic ways. Of course you don't have to worry about that incompatibility if you refuse to acknowledge any discussion of either issue, which I suspect might be part of the reason people find those discussions so confronting and upsetting.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Having the same rights has a woman that was born female

Oh? The same rights? Such as the right to a single sex space? And sex-segregated sports?

Women can't have those rights if transwomen muscle in...

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Oh? The same rights? Such as the right to a single sex space? And sex-segregated sports?

Women can't have those rights if transwomen muscle in...

With sports It has to looked at on individual levels

Not all men are the same and in fact you can have women that are physically stronger than men

[thesheriff443]

Disclaimer, its just my opinion and I’m not forcing women to do anything they don’t want to do.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

With sports It has to looked at on individual levels

Not all men are the same and in fact you can have women that are physically stronger than men

I'm sorry but with sports it should be biological females only especially at elite levels

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm sorry but with sports it should be biological females only especially at elite levels

I respect your opinion

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Not at a professional level. The skill level of any professional sport is often so high that any little advantage can make the difference. The physical advantages that men have will give them huge advantages over women.

I believe the Williams sisters once took on a male tennis player who was ranked far below them and he managed to beat them both on physical advantages alone. Testosterone matters in sport.

Yes you are right but I wasn’t really focusing on the sports issues more on letting someone live their life as a woman

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Not at a professional level. The skill level of any professional sport is often so high that any little advantage can make the difference. The physical advantages that men have will give them huge advantages over women.

I believe the Williams sisters once took on a male tennis player who was ranked far below them and he managed to beat them both on physical advantages alone. Testosterone matters in sport.

I think that male tennis player was ranked 203rd, that tell s you everything you need to know about the differences considering I'm fairly sure that was at Serena's peak and she was miles ahead of her closest female competition

[Liam-]

Can we just take a moment to consider the reaction if someone said it’s not surprising people don’t feel empathy if women got attacked because someone of them are nuts? There would be justifiable outrage because that sort of argument is grim. I’m genuinely baffled by the obvious double standards when it comes to the treatment of groups of people, people are expected to take women’s feelings, thoughts and safety into consideration, but apparently it’s understandable and unavoidable that people don’t feel empathy for trans people who are facing violence at a rising level, because a minority of trans people are weird anti-conversationalists? Horrid

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Yes you are right but I wasn’t really focusing on the sports issues more on letting someone live their life as a woman

Again, "living their life as a woman" is meaningless. A man could be a single parent and work part time as a nurse, and make amazing cakes. Stereotypically he could be said to be leading a "woman's life" , so would he be living as a woman? Or does it just involve changing one's name and clothes?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Can we just take a moment to consider the reaction if someone said it’s not surprising people don’t feel empathy if women got attacked because someone of them are nuts? There would be justifiable outrage because that sort of argument is grim. I’m genuinely baffled by the obvious double standards when it comes to the treatment of groups of people, people are expected to take women’s feelings, thoughts and safety into consideration, but apparently it’s understandable and unavoidable that people don’t feel empathy for trans people who are facing violence at a rising level, because a minority of trans people are weird anti-conversationalists? Horrid

I wouldn't like to see anyone being attacked

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Again, "living their life as a woman" is meaningless. A man could be a single parent and work part time as a nurse, and make amazing cakes. Stereotypically he could be said to be leading a "woman's life" , so would he be living as a woman? Or does it just involve changing one's name and clothes?

There is a big difference between a man dressing as a woman and and man having an operation to remove his penis

[Crimson Dynamo]

men angry at successful women shock

[GoldHeart]

Anyone using death threats .. have already lost their little argument.

These idiots don't care about protecting trans, they just want to attack and once again it has misogynistic tones.. wow what a surprise .

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Can we just take a moment to consider the reaction if someone said it’s not surprising people don’t feel empathy if women got attacked because someone of them are nuts? There would be justifiable outrage because that sort of argument is grim. I’m genuinely baffled by the obvious double standards when it comes to the treatment of groups of people, people are expected to take women’s feelings, thoughts and safety into consideration, but apparently it’s understandable and unavoidable that people don’t feel empathy for trans people who are facing violence at a rising level, because a minority of trans people are weird anti-conversationalists? Horrid

I didn’t say it’s an understandable mindset, I said it’s an inevitable mindset. In this case that’s a very important distinction. The people who lack empathy for transpeople being attacked are not the ones seeking open conversation, but they are lumped together as one and the same and hounded by a very vocal minority.

[Oliver_W]

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Love that.

[Beso]

Some of them are dumb enough to actually do that

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Some of them are dumb enough to actually do that

IMO it has more to do with "joining in" (group mentality) than being dumb, per se. Worryingly enough, some very intelligent people can be drawn into these sorts of mentalities by a strong group branding.

[bots]

death threats and taking a picture of her house with the address showing is taking it to a higher level of threat i think. It's pretty crazy that can happen here in the uk for having an opinion

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

death threats and taking a picture of her house with the address showing is taking it to a higher level of threat i think. It's pretty crazy that can happen here in the uk for having an opinion

She writes fiction - gets praised

She writes facts - people are after her blood.

[Toy Soldier]

One of the most ironic, troubling, but ultimately unsurprising aspects of all of this is that it's blatantly gendered. Gender critical men on Social Media don't face the threats, they don't face the harassment, they certainly aren't abused and doxxed to anything like the degree that women are. A complicated combination of women being seen as fair game, and women simply being held to higher standards. Knowing that if they get aggressive with men, men are socialised to A) not be as intimidated in the first place and B) get aggressive back at them (and have that be expected and acceptable). If women respond aggressively, it only leads to them being further branded bitter/aggressive/hateful. How many male celebrities are OPENLY gender critical all over the media and face a fraction of the backlash JK Rowling has had ... for (initially) simply seeking an open good faith discussion of the subject.

I see it literally all the time.

There's something Daniel LaRusso's daughter in Cobra Kai says at one point - obviously relating to kids beating each other up with Karate - but she says something like "When boys fight back they're called heroes, when girls fight back we're called psycho."

Cobra Kai with the facts.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

death threats and taking a picture of her house with the address showing is taking it to a higher level of threat i think. It's pretty crazy that can happen here in the uk for having an opinion

and that we seem to be at the point where some people find it acceptable

like the Professor who was intimidated into resigning from her job, that is done and dusted now and forgotten about