[Christmas Dynasnow]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

Women are so threatened by other women

men continue to be threatened by women is i think what you mean

[Merry Mockmas]

A woman is someone that looks like Rihanna.

If this post ever hit Twitter I'm probably cancelled within a second.

You gotta love Twitter though with how self-righteous they are, yet they bully people on and off the site that they deem to be "bad" people, you gotta love the irony, especially in the J.K Rowling case where I personally have mixed feelings on her opinions of Trans women, but the abuse that some of these "good" people have given her don't come across as very noble to me for some reason.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

A woman is someone that looks like Rihanna.



If this post ever hit Twitter I'm probably cancelled within a second.



You gotta love Twitter though with how self-righteous they are, yet they bully people on and off the site that they deem to be "bad" people, you gotta love the irony, especially in the J.K Rowling case where I personally have mixed feelings on her opinions of Trans women, but the abuse that some of these "good" people have given her don't come across as very noble to me for some reason.

Which parts of what JK Rowling said do you not agree with can I ask? Just out of curiosity

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Which parts of what JK Rowling said do you not agree with can I ask? Just out of curiosity

Well didn't she like some anti-trans group or am I mixing that up with someone else?

The main point I agree with her on and I'm saying this with no intention to offend anyone, but I personally am not comfortable with Trans women who have high testosterone levels beating the **** out of Cis women in Boxing matches, fair enough if people see me as Transphobic for that opinion, but I don't feel comfortable with it.

No offence to Scarlett who I see as a good friend on here, but it just doesn't make me feel comfortable personally, I understand though that I'm just one person so who cares.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Well didn't she like some anti-trans group or am I mixing that up with someone else?



The main point I agree with her on and I'm saying this with no intention to offend anyone, but I personally am not comfortable with Trans women who have high testosterone levels beating the **** out of Cis women in Boxing matches, fair enough if people see me as Transphobic for that opinion, but I don't feel comfortable with it.



No offence to Scarlett who I see as a good friend on here, but it just doesn't make me feel comfortable personally, I understand though that I'm just one person so who cares.

I'm not sure what "anti-trans" group you mean but you did say her opinions so I wondered what she had said that you disagree with?

[Merry Mockmas]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm not sure what "anti-trans" group you mean but you did say her opinions so I wondered what she had said that you disagree with?

I thought she had a link to a website that sold anti-Trans T-shirts or something like that.

And didn't she also say that "real women menstrate" which biologically is obviously true, but I can definitely understand why Trans-women might get offended at that comment.

But on the other hand, I do also understand some of her arguments, I think personally that we need a third school of certain Sports where Trans Women and Cis Women that volunteer to take part can take part, and the Cis Women that feel uncomfortable with competing against Trans Women get to take part in the Cis Women competition.

And I'd consider maybe adding the mix Cis/Trans Women as a third Bathroom option for Trans Women to use obviously, but any Cis Women that don't mind sharing a Bathroom with Trans Women can also use the facility as well if they wish.

Because let's be brutally honest here people, J.K Rowling isn't the only person in the Cis Woman community to feel uncomfortable about these topics, and it does need to be addressed without people threatening her on Twitter.

[Mitchell]

To me, it’s exactly the same as who a man is, someone who identifies in that way.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Mitchell

To me, it’s exactly the same as who a man is, someone who identifies in that way.

In what way?

[Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

In what way?

If they identify as female and that’s how they feel most comfortable, then that’s good for me, same as if they identify as male, or non binary.

[glib]

Originally Posted by Mitchell

If they identify as female and that’s how they feel most comfortable, then that’s good for me, same as if they identify as male, or non binary.

So if I identify as female tomorrow , then commit crime, does that give me privilege to go to a woman’s prison , because I identify as a woman, and therefore I am a woman?

Just like the 60 year old pedo a few weeks ago did…

[Mitchell]

Originally Posted by glib

So if I identify as female tomorrow , then commit crime, does that give me privilege to go to a woman’s prison , because I identify as a woman, and therefore I am a woman?

Just like the 60 year old pedo a few weeks ago did…

I don’t particularly know much about the judiciary system, so don’t feel qualified to answer that, I do know that it’s a complex issue, and one that I certainly wouldn’t be able to resolve.

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by glib

So if I identify as female tomorrow , then commit crime, does that give me privilege to go to a woman’s prison , because I identify as a woman, and therefore I am a woman?

Just like the 60 year old pedo a few weeks ago did…

For every one person going lengths to find an exploit to abuse women there are thousands that use no excuse. Of course the former makes for the best clickbaity articles though.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Mitchell

If they identify as female and that’s how they feel most comfortable, then that’s good for me, same as if they identify as male, or non binary.

The question being asked though is what does that mean. What does it mean to "feel like (identify as) a woman", or a man? Without resorting to stereotypes or (frankly, massively problematic) historical social norms, what does identifying as a woman mean?

I have my own thoughts on it, and there is some debate and nuance to it, for those who are willing to actually delve into the philosophy of gender (ironically, most trans and non-binary people seem not to be willing to ) however to be completely blunt, the vast majority of trans women I see are massively embroiled in roleplaying a heavily stereotyped version of what they believe a woman is/does/looks like. Not all, mind, but the vast majority - or at least the vast majority of those who are very visible, so maybe there's something else in that.

And yes, it was a conscious choice there to say "trans women" and not "trans people" because the psychosocial reasons for Female to Male transition are for the mostpart completely different and rooted in something else entirely. VERY SADLY the reasons that young females might find themselves wishing away their gender are really ****ing obvious.

As for non-binary? My honest opinion? These are just people who don't feel firmly rooted in either gender stereotype but don't have the wisdom or introspective ability to realise that that is true of everyone who hasn't been sucked in by the social myth of gender norms. Do I "feel like a man"? No! What does that mean?? Am I a blokey bloke? No! I don't want to be! Am I non-binary? By the definition that I see other people put on it? Apparently yes. So is my wife . And yet no I'm male, and a man, and there's no reason to see it any other way, and it doesn't mean I have to "do man stuff" and never has.

This applies to a huge proportion of the population. I often get the impression that the gender-obsessed think it doesn't, and that "most cis men" are archetypal men and "most cis women" are archetypal women.

But then, that's because most non-binary people are in their teens and early 20's and (as a statistical fact) a small proportion become trans, the VAST majority revert to the gender correlating to their natal sex, and only an absolutely tiny number remain non-binary into full adulthood. Going to be totally blunt here: most of those people are extremely messy adults. The argument will be that "some sort of mistreatment because of their nonbinaryness caused them other mental health problems". Which is absolute horse****. Absolutely no evidence of this at all.

But yeah to be blunt/short most people move away from the non-binary lable when they grow up enough to develop a nuanced understanding of gender roles and realise that being a female who plays football and has short hair but also likes to wear dresses and party doesn't make them "somewhere between male and female".


ANYWAY, I'm ranting on a bit.

Honestly I think you're avoiding the question of "what does feeling like a woman/man/non-binary actually mean" because you probably know you can't do it without spouting stereotypes and you're of the opinion that it's better to just "accept whatever people want to say about themselves without question because that's kind and comfortable for everyone". A cornerstone of hyperindividualism.

[thesheriff443]

Every answer is correct based on a person’s belief

If you believe something to be true then for you it is the correct answer even though it can be proven to be wrong
But even when the answer can be proven to wrong it’s only wrong because you believe your answer to be right

[glib]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Every answer is correct based on a person’s belief

If you believe something to be true then for you it is the correct answer even though it can be proven to be wrong
But even when the answer can be proven to wrong it’s only wrong because you believe your answer to be right

You are wrong

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by glib

You are wrong

Only because you believe you to be right

Let’s go back to the beginning before words existed
What if the words we use are wrong

[user104658]

For the record, by the way;

I don't think men and women are 100% the same - and I do believe that genuine trans genderism / gender dysphoria is very real.

However it is my experience that those people are generally either quietly getting on with their lives as they please, or are willing to actually talk about the issues and recognise the need for open dialogue.

And then... ohhh, and then... [trigger warning] ... there is a not small number of fetishists, narcissists and frankly mentally unwell people who are engaging in fantasy - often overtly sexualised fantasy - and spinning entire bizarre narratives, and demanding damaging social change, without debare, without evidence, and hiding behind genuine trans people and genuine gender dysphoria in order to quite simply do whatever the **** they want without scrutiny. And then you have people so firmly committed to the hyperindividualism zeitgeist that they CAN NOT and WILL NOT accept valid criticism, to the extent that you can present them with footage of clearly mentally ill individuals, and examples of predatory behaviour, and they will try to find a way to say "it's fine". It's a ****ing train wreck.

[Oliver_W]

Re the prison thing ...

Most men (including transwomen) who are in jail are there for violent or sexual crimes, while most women in jail are largely victims of circumstance, and they certainly don't need to be locked up with males.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

if its semantics and what you belive id imagine if you said your neighbour said they beleived that they owned your car and would like the keys and said that they dont recognise your ownership

you would say f off?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

if its semantics and what you belive id imagine if you said your neighbour said they beleived that they owned your car and would like the keys and said that they dont recognise your ownership

you would say f off?

Women believe they own half of your stuff and when you get a divorce you find out it’s true

[user104658]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Women believe they own half of your stuff and when you get a divorce you find out it’s true

To be fair this is just because (thanks to patriarchy) men tend to be the higher earners.

My wife's career is absolutely flying and she's likely to be fairly high-income well within the decade... ... ... if she ever decides to kick me to the kerb you can bet your arse I'm taking half of her stuff on the way out the door .

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair this is just because (thanks to patriarchy) men tend to be the higher earners.

My wife's career is absolutely flying and she's likely to be fairly high-income well within the decade... ... ... if she ever decides to kick me to the kerb you can bet your arse I'm taking half of her stuff on the way out the door .

All you will end up with is a car full of old shoes and some half empty perfume bottles.

[user104658]

The zeitgeist of it all has heavy roots in post-structuralism but like... baby-brain understanding of post-structuralism (which even at it's most solid has plenty of scope for critique).

The irony of it being post-structuralist is that it is anchored in an obsessive need for defining and labelling. That's literally what all of it is about. In fact for those who buy into the current dogma there seems to be some sort of untethered existential turmoil that can only be calmed BY excessive labelling, and by rejecting anything that strays from or questions those labels or mantras... which doesn't gel with post-structuralist logic at all.

tl;dr much of it is (literally) inherently illogical but there's an almost mocking defiantly flippant stock-retort that is, essentially, "it doesn't matter if it's illogical you just have to accept it and everything will be fine".

Some homework if anyone is up for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-structuralism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermodernity

I'm suspecting not

[user104658]

For a quick example, the entire concept of the gender spectrum relies in the postmodernist concept of there being no objective reality, no objective fact, only social constructs and perceptions of reality that are equally valid in their "realness".

This is what allows for gender not to match natal sex. It underpins the whole thing. The concept of there being no way to objectively make statements that hold true for all.

...

The same people defined by/completely buying into this philosophical concept will then - completely devoid of irony - hit you with;

"Trans women ARE women - say it with me! No debate!"



Honestly I personally believe that these things being thrown around by people, mostly parrotted with absolutely no identifiable progression of thought, and completely contradicting entire lynchpin philosophical concepts of their own beliefs in order to make another point 2 minutes later, is EXACTLY what leads to the frustration/anxiety/anger/panic that drives "cancel culture" and the idea that debate or diversion from the established rhetoric is "literally murder". The debate stage has legs made of uncooked spaghetti tied together with thread. So yes there are going to be casualties. Mental breakdown occurs when a person can no longer reconcile their internal reality with the information being presented to them. Worth some thought for those who find the debate scary I think.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

2 great posts TS