[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

A lot of black people drop subtly homophobic remarks in the workplace and think it’s okay because “black people are naturally more homophobic than whites” and use religion to justify it.
...
There’s so much I could say about the complex issue of many black people expecting to get a free pass for being more inherently homophobic as someone who’s been affiliated with and exposed to all sides of the cultural coin of life over the years but what I will say is that a lot of black LGBT people carry with them a lot of internalised homophobia and whatnot because they’re just used to being in an environment where they’re not accepted whatsoever by at least 80% of other people most ethnically similar to them.

It's frankly a bit bigoted to expect or accept lower expectations from people based on the amount of pigment in their skin. If someone's homophobic, I generally see them as a jerk, regardless of skin colour.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It's frankly a bit bigoted to expect or accept lower expectations from people based on the amount of pigment in their skin. If someone's homophobic, I generally see them as a jerk, regardless of skin colour.

There’s an awful lot of cultural nuance that has to be appreciated but I see where you’re coming from. I don’t mind people being disapproving of homosexuality (but not the people themselves) because of religious beliefs (which are often culturally syncretised, whether that’s readily admitted or not) but undisguised homophobia that knows no restraint (whether it rests on the hypocritical premise of religion when it’s apparently okay for them to commit every sin under the sun Monday - Saturday themselves) just needs checking and shutting down. Nigeria (to use an example) is hands-down one of the coolest, most culturally and spiritually blessed countries in the world but also one of the most notoriously homophobic. Visiting a mama-Nkechi buka to eat jollof rice, suya, nkwobi and drink Nigerian Fanta is a vibe but when LGBT people go to places like that to dine it does feel a bit jarring. The people cooking and serving your food probably don’t like you at all. If it’s obvious you’re gay they’re only tolerating your presence for the money.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It's frankly a bit bigoted to expect or accept lower expectations from people based on the amount of pigment in their skin. If someone's homophobic, I generally see them as a jerk, regardless of skin colour.

There's been a somewhat funny catch-22 of bigotry at my daughter's school recently (everyone involved is 13 - 14)... a girl has moved to the school who has come from Nigeria. Small town Scotland so really not much racial diversity, but no real racism issues except with one kid... who was being openly racist... but is also openly (and clearly) gay... and the girl (being heavily Christian and from Nigeria) is openly homophobic .

I swear, the DRAMA of it all, and the school tying themselves in knots because they have a zero-tolerance policy for both but I don't think have ever encountered a situation where it's Racism vs Homophobia . It all got quite vicious over Snapchat. Better than EastEnders tbh.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

There's been a somewhat funny catch-22 of bigotry at my daughter's school recently (everyone involved is 13 - 14)... a girl has moved to the school who has come from Nigeria. Small town Scotland so really not much racial diversity, but no real racism issues except with one kid... who was being openly racist... but is also openly (and clearly) gay... and the girl (being heavily Christian and from Nigeria) is openly homophobic .

I swear, the DRAMA of it all, and the school tying themselves in knots because they have a zero-tolerance policy for both but I don't think have ever encountered a situation where it's Racism vs Homophobia . It all got quite vicious over Snapchat. Better than EastEnders tbh.

Typical Nigerians do need to learn to keep their mouths shout when it comes to L.G.B.T. prejudice. Some of these people now are not even up to 2 weeks in the U.K. and roll up at Tesco expecting to be able to pay in Naira notes but somehow have enough cultural savviness to know when to pull the race-card, while still expecting it to be okay to be as overtly homophobic as they come. Nigerians are some of my favourite people in the world but the hypocrisy can be a lot. Sometimes black people are their own worst enemy. Doing the work in the community to at least suppress certain beliefs in mixed company and recognise that active discrimination of all kinds isn’t on is more important and beneficial long-term than pointing out every supposed micro-aggression in the world that white people are supposedly guilty of just by breathing.

Edit: didn’t mean that thumbs-down smiley. It just came out of nowhere.

[Redway]

There’s this Nigerian media clown called Bobrisky (he’s been popular since at least 2017, maybe before) who’s a camp “cross-dresser” but the funny thing is he openly opposes gay rights. I don’t know who he thinks he’s kidding but at least he’s not as bad as Obialor James Brown (a mini wannabe version with H.I.V. who’s known for giving himself hysterical, badly-acted seizures over the littlest world happening, including the Queen - who he won’t have ever even met - passing away). Everything about that James Brown idiot (besides one interview where he actually came across as quite measured and calm) repulses me.

[Redway]

https://youtu.be/vWtG7gjaQCc

https://youtu.be/VHHkCsbdS00

Here the idiot is. He’s half Yoruba, half Igbo (two major Nigerian ethnic groups). I couldn’t tell you which of his parents died from H.I.V. but whoever did passed it onto him and he’s made a name for himself partly on the basis of that. He’s just a disgrace.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

There’s this Nigerian media clown called Bobrisky (he’s been popular since at least 2017, maybe before) who’s a camp “cross-dresser” but the funny thing is he openly opposes gay rights. I don’t know who he thinks he’s kidding

Meh. A lot of drag queens are straight. All of the New York Dolls were straight, and at least some were actively homophobic.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

There's been a somewhat funny catch-22 of bigotry at my daughter's school recently (everyone involved is 13 - 14)... a girl has moved to the school who has come from Nigeria. Small town Scotland so really not much racial diversity, but no real racism issues except with one kid... who was being openly racist... but is also openly (and clearly) gay... and the girl (being heavily Christian and from Nigeria) is openly homophobic .

I swear, the DRAMA of it all, and the school tying themselves in knots because they have a zero-tolerance policy for both but I don't think have ever encountered a situation where it's Racism vs Homophobia . It all got quite vicious over Snapchat. Better than EastEnders tbh.

A straight white lad would have been suspended immediately.

[Redway]

But the point is, Ollie, homophobia is a learned and handed-down part of black cultures worldwide, which is why black people are far more likely than white people and even British/eastern/south-eastern Asians (the undiluted Indian sub-continent can be pretty homophobic) to a certain extent to be very grossed-out by and against L.G.B.T. stuff (especially when it’s men or transgender people involved). A lot of white people just accept that it kind of comes with the cultural territory (and it’s certainly not all or even the vastest majority of black people but it’s a disproportionate amount of we’re being honest) but I know what you mean about it not being on. If you’re cheating on your wife every other day but still have the cheek and the audacity to use the Bible to excuse being a flagrant homophobe you’re a class-A tool. There’s nothing in the Bible that puts homosexuality on a special taboo-pedestal when it comes to what’s considered sin. If you’re a homophobe (or an internalised homophobe), just say that outright and own it if it’s bigotry you want to do.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

But the point is, Ollie, homophobia is a learned and handed-down part of black cultures worldwide,

It wasn't much different with white until fairly recently. "It's always been that way" isn't an excuse.

[user104658]

To be fair, i think there's plenty of inherited/cultural homophobia in certain white demographics too ... especially when you think of Bible Belt USA for example. The common denominator seems to be religiosity when it comes right down to it. The black communities who openly have trouble with homophobia are often also quite strongly Christian.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

To be fair, i think there's plenty of inherited/cultural homophobia in certain white demographics too ... especially when you think of Bible Belt USA for example. The common denominator seems to be religiosity when it comes right down to it. The black communities who openly have trouble with homophobia are often also quite strongly Christian.

True. The Bible Belt in the U.S. is brutal, too. But I think one difference you’ll notice is that white L.G.B. (let’s just leave the T out for now) people from the Deep South still have a certain leeway/freedom to be open about their sexuality because being white is a certain protective factor when it comes to being more broadly accepted. Black L.G.B. people open up about it at their own risk, wherever they are. The funny thing is black people are estimated to have slightly more L.G.B. (again, let’s just allow the T-factor for now) people than whites do but they’re more likely to keep quiet about it because there’s nowhere for them to run, unlike white Bible Belt-descendants out of South Carolina or Georgia if they’re not straight. That’s why so many black men especially are on the down-low.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

To be fair, i think there's plenty of inherited/cultural homophobia in certain white demographics too ... especially when you think of Bible Belt USA for example. The common denominator seems to be religiosity when it comes right down to it. The black communities who openly have trouble with homophobia are often also quite strongly Christian.

But then again there’s Russia, which happens not to be a particularly religious country (as far as I know) but of their own accord incredibly homophobic.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

But then again there’s Russia, which happens not to be a particularly religious country (as far as I know) but of their own accord incredibly homophobic.

From what I know of Russia they have very clear ideas about "masculinity" in general, it seems to be a different thing sort of unique to Russia (and a lot of Eastern Europe too I suppose, anywhere Russian-influenced historically)

[Crimson Dynamo]

going by the nasty threatening actions of the trans mob

its very much a mental disorder rooted in gay male aggression against women

[bots]

Mental disorder is a very emotive term to use. Not everyone thinks the same way, that's what makes us individual and not robots

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Mental disorder is a very emotive term to use. Not everyone thinks the same way, that's what makes us individual and not robots

It's not emotive, it's scientific. If people choose to find it offensive, it's up to them whether or not they want to stigmatise mental health issues.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It's not emotive, it's scientific. If people choose to find it offensive, it's up to them whether or not they want to stigmatise mental health issues.

with respect that's nonsense, it's in no way scientific at all

As an example, after i had my stroke, i had brain scans performed. 5 neurologists examined the scans, and every single one of them came back with a different interpretation.

When I spoke to them about this, they said no-one has a perfect brain, there is always something to comment on and they rarely agree on the effect it may have unless it is a catastrophic type of injury

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Mental disorder is a very emotive term to use. Not everyone thinks the same way, that's what makes us individual and not robots

We've got a free thinker.

That's not very 2023 of you.

Seriously though I agree with your point.

[Livia]

Dress up any way you want, but if you have a penis, you're a man.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Livia

Dress up any way you want, but if you have a penis, you're a man.

What about the guys who have their meat and two veg … removed though …


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[Livia]

Originally Posted by Zizu

What about the guys who have their meat and two veg … removed though …


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I'd say they were trans women.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Zizu

What about the guys who have their meat and two veg … removed though …


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

They're about as much of a woman as any other man who lost genitals through accident or illness.

[Livia]

I agree. Until they can alter their Y chromosome... They're still men.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

I agree. Until they can alter their Y chromosome... They're still men.

I'm a little more charitable in that I don't think anyone necessarily needs to be termed a "man" or "woman" if they don't want, they're social descriptors at the end of the day. So I'm willing to say transwomen, and that they're not men... however, they will always be male, and can never be female.