[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I hear what you are saying but you also have to see what you're saying to me and apply it to yourself. I'm guessing about how I may or may not feel about something that hasn't happened but so are you. I assume that you have never taken another persons life so you too are only guessing on how you would feel if you did.

Yes this is all hypothetical in our case (and thank god it is!) but I know myself and I just know (as well as I can without it having happened) that I wouldn't be able to take another person's life in that way. Now if I was there at the time and it was a case of protecting my child or any other loved one or in self defense, then that's a whole different thing, but actually actively seeking out and killing or executing someone after the event, no I honestly don't believe I could do it or live with it either, and even if it was in self defense I still believe I would never be the same.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by happyland

I'm telling you, the only way I could live after the death of a child is by knowing that his killer was dead too.. SOunds bad perhaps but I know that's how I feel.

I'm a compassionate person and I'm also very forgiving.. But this scenario is a whole different kettle of fish!

I am too,although some people will not believe that,the reason I am so passionate about it is because it's close to my heart,when a child is murdered ,tortured and abused, it not only kills the child it kills the family too.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Who am I trying to silence?I said(once again)you cannot know how you would feel if it was your child if you have none!people can have what opinions they like,I do not profess to have supreme knowledge,but I DO have knowledge,I wish I didn't but I do,so I can and will voice my opinion,i have never said i wanted capital punishment,WHY do you keep quoting things I have never said?Who have I been personal to that havent been personal to me?

There's this thing called Empathy? We can empathise but ultimately I can't agree with capital punishment, I was raised to respect human life and I just see it as extinguishing a life out of nothing but revenge. I don't like bringing it up but I do know of the anger a person feels when they lose a family member to crime.

You wouldn't appreciate it if I posted stuff like' You don't UNDERSTAND! You've never lost anyone to violent crime so you can't grasp how it feels!' So why should you be allowed to shut people down by saying they can't grasp the issue at hand because they're not parents? Treat people how you want to be treated Kazanne.

You've been personal to me, Twice in the last page you've been quoted for attacking me over being a mod when I've not said anything personal to you or anybody. When it comes to modding I'm very careful and impartial and I rarely act without things being reported and if I do I'll explain why to the other mods. I go to a lot of lengths to be as impartial as possible so I don't appreciate you trying to discredit and attack me over being a mod when I'm not breaking any rules by partaking in the debate. I've never attacked you personally I've just disagreed with your methods of arguing.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by kazanne

I am too,although some people will not believe that,the reason I am so passionate about it is because it's close to my heart,when a child is murdered ,tortured and abused, it not only kills the child it kills the family too.

Yep, I can imagine! Well I can't really, but you know what I mean..

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

By your logic, from what we know of each other (which is very little) then I should be the most knowledgeable in this subject because my family has been a victim of violent crime. Is that right? Or does that rule only apply to you?

It's a silly statement to make as well as hugely offensive and pretentious to all but yourself.



I know a lot about how the victim's family feels in these situations Angus so I resent the first paragraph completely, just because I'm not bloodthirsty about it doesn't make me misguided. Violence won't heal a broken family and Capital Punishment will just lead to another family grieving and I wouldn't inflict that on my worst enemy. Revenge doesn't make the pain go away.

I agree that the Human Rights Legislation is flawed like all things in life but your solution isn't any better.

I did not address my post to you so I can't be responsible for your resenting my comments. I was addressing Kazanne who has suffered more than her fair share of heartache.

I'm afraid on an issue like this which is so close to my heart I am not prepared to compromise my opinions to fit in with anyone else's, especially if I vehemently disagree. I am sorry if your family have suffered violent crime, but you and your family chose to deal with it in your own way, I and some others on here would deal with it differently. The issue of whether my decision was right or wrong would not come into it. What the dissenters fail to understand is that from my point of view I actually despise where THEY are coming from - I could say a lot more about what I think of their attitude but what would be the point?

I would be satisfied with the judicial system if, in fact the sentence of life for murderers and paedophiles meant LIFE, not 20 years, or 10 years with good behaviour! It would still eat away at me every day that the murderer of my child was alive, but at least I would know that he or she was never getting out again. Sadly this is not the case and I can honestly say that I would not rest if I thought such an evil person was free to walk the streets again.

The Human Rights Act was poorly conceived and it has proven to be completely unjust in practise since it rewards evil doers at the expense of the law abiding.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by happyland

I'm telling you, the only way I could live after the death of a child is by knowing that his killer was dead too.. SOunds bad perhaps but I know that's how I feel.

I'm a compassionate person and I'm also very forgiving.. But this scenario is a whole different kettle of fish!

It's nothing about compassion or forgiveness here: I'm talking about revenge and killing. I just don't think it would be healthy for you in the long run, that's all.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by angus58

I did not address my post to you so I can't be responsible for your resenting my comments. I was addressing Kazanne who has suffered more than her fair share of heartache.

I'm afraid on an issue like this which is so close to my heart I am not prepared to compromise my opinions to fit in with anyone else's, especially if I vehemently disagree. I am sorry if your family have suffered violent crime, but you and your family chose to deal with it in your own way, I and some others on here would deal with it differently. The issue of whether my decision was right or wrong would not come into it. What the dissenters fail to understand is that from my point of view I actually despise where THEY are coming from - I could say a lot more about what I think of their attitude but what would be the point?

I would be satisfied with the judicial system if, in fact the sentence of life for murderers and paedophiles meant LIFE, not 20 years, or 10 years with good behaviour! It would still eat away at me every day that the murderer of my child was alive, but at least I would know that he or she was never getting out again. Sadly this is not the case and I can honestly say that I would not rest if I thought such an evil person was free to walk the streets again.

The Human Rights Act was poorly conceived and it has proven to be completely unjust in practise since it rewards evil doers at the expense of the law abiding.

great post, I agree 100%

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's an older post but I took exception to this, His posts spoke of murdering & torturing people, saying that he'd stab criminals if he had the chance and he admitted double standards and bias. We should be encouraging him to be consistant and to think about consequence as well as actions, not applauding him for being hysterical.

Terrible message to send out, he's entitled to his opinion but we shouldn't be praising him for how he came across.

I take exception to the fact that you use my post about jedward fever to bolster up an opinion YOU personally have about a post of HIS. Very crafty, because by implication you are saying that I have actively encouraged his opinions and statements, and worse still I have INFLUENCED him. That is not only insulting to me, but to jedward fever also, in fact it's downright patronising to him. I can't respect the opinions of someone so blatantly manipulative - it is a fact that you have used my post out of context entirely.

Nor do I take kindly to being told who I may or may not wish to praise or, for that matter, condemn. Is this, or is this not, a public forum for debate? If so, then I will express my opinion, and will not take responsibility for what others may wish to post.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by setanta

It's nothing about compassion or forgiveness here: I'm talking about revenge and killing. I just don't think it would be healthy for you in the long run, that's all.

I'm not talking about compassion or forgiveness either.. I just mentioned incase people assume that I am a cold blooded, callous bitch with no feelings.. It's not the case.

But I can assure you, those qualities would fly right out the window should somebody harm my child!

You keep saying that I wouldn't be able to live with myself for doing it, but to me it's the only way I could live. I don't think the death of the killer WOULD make me feel any better but him living would make me feel worse.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by happyland

I'm not talking about compassion or forgiveness either.. I just mentioned incase people assume that I am a cold blooded, callous bitch with no feelings.. It's not the case.

But I can assure you, those qualities would fly right out the window should somebody harm my child!

You keep saying that I wouldn't be able to live with myself for doing it, but to me it's the only way I could live. I don't think the death of the killer WOULD make me feel any better but him living would make me feel worse.

You have put it in a nutshell - absolutely agree.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's this thing called Empathy? We can empathise but ultimately I can't agree with capital punishment, I was raised to respect human life and I just see it as extinguishing a life out of nothing but revenge. I don't like bringing it up but I do know of the anger a person feels when they lose a family member to crime.

You wouldn't appreciate it if I posted stuff like' You don't UNDERSTAND! You've never lost anyone to violent crime so you can't grasp how it feels!' So why should you be allowed to shut people down by saying they can't grasp the issue at hand because they're not parents? Treat people how you want to be treated Kazanne.

You've been personal to me, Twice in the last page you've been quoted for attacking me over being a mod when I've not said anything personal to you or anybody. When it comes to modding I'm very careful and impartial and I rarely act without things being reported and if I do I'll explain why to the other mods. I go to a lot of lengths to be as impartial as possible so I don't appreciate you trying to discredit and attack me over being a mod when I'm not breaking any rules by partaking in the debate. I've never attacked you personally I've just disagreed with your methods of arguing.

So you don't agree with capital punishment,when have i ever said you should?or that I do? I am not being personal about you being a mod,but it is blindingly obvious when reading posts that SOME mods let their pals get away with posting stuff that others can't,that is not an attack,i've observed it,infact there was quite an argument about biased mods on the BB forum,I also don't appreciate you trying to make out I am some sort of vigilante where criminals are concerned,but I would gladly strap a couple of them to a railway line(that is my personal thought,it's not something I would do)I don't think,,Most of the mods here are ok,but I have had run ins with a couple before,people have often been personal to me,but mostly it's overlooked and if i feel someone is out of order,I will say so,I know people don't like me for it but that's me,take it or leave it.I say what i feel please or offend.

[InOne]

What about those of you with more than 1 child? You'd go out and kill the person who did such a thing to one of your children, but what about the others? They'd grow up without a mother, and they'd grow thinking violence was a way to solve thing. How would justify murder without them thinking it was ok themselves?

[Lee.]

To be honest, we're actually talking about Capital punishment here, whereby a judge and jury would be the actual decision makers and I would actually have nothing to do with the actual execution... I would be absolutely fine with this, as I have said.

James asked me if I COULD actually push the button myself and my answer is yes, definitely.

But in the real world I WOULDN'T atually be doing the killing therefore, I would not worry about what my other child thought of me.

[InOne]

I still think anyone brought up thinking a life for a life is ok will have a warped sense of morals.

[cupid stunt]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That doesn't mean we can justify violence towards them, it makes us as bad as the thugs in the streets if we did that.

no it dont
heres hopin sum screw turns a blind eye n 'accidenatly' leaves that scumbags pad open 1 day.....

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by InOne

I still think anyone brought up thinking a life for a life is ok will have a warped sense of morals.

we're talking about hypothetical and extreme cases here Joe.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

we're talking about hypothetical and extreme cases here Joe.

Indeed, but most in this debate still insist they know exactly how they'd feel and what they would do.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by InOne

I still think anyone brought up thinking a life for a life is ok will have a warped sense of morals.

Hmm.. see to me "a life for a life" makes much more sense than allowing a child rapist /murderer/torturer to live in relative comfort for a few years then giving them a new identity/new location/new life (where nobody know's what they actually are) and allowing them to go and do exactly the same to somebody elses baby!

I'm not saying anybody elses opinion on this thread is wrong, but this is just how I feel!

[Angus]

Originally Posted by InOne

I still think anyone brought up thinking a life for a life is ok will have a warped sense of morals.

The thing is that I think those that don't believe that a life for a life is just and equitable are the ones with a warped sense of morality.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by InOne

What about those of you with more than 1 child? You'd go out and kill the person who did such a thing to one of your children, but what about the others? They'd grow up without a mother, and they'd grow thinking violence was a way to solve thing. How would justify murder without them thinking it was ok themselves?

IF criminals were dealt with properly by the system,IF they were given LIFE instead of a few poxy years,people would NOT be calling for the death penalty,but it's all IFS and buts as the system has failed so many children who have been killed or abused,THAT is why those of us who have had to suffer these things first hand feel so passionate about the way murderers are dealt with,you get more for robbing a bank in this country than you do for child murder,that is WRONG.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by InOne

Indeed, but most in this debate still insist they know exactly how they'd feel and what they would do.

Well most of us are pretty much in touch with out own feelings and have an established belief system that informs our thoughts and actions, so we are entitled to hypothesise about how we believe we would act in any given situation - I would say it's almost a requirement just to be able to function in day to day life.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by InOne

Indeed, but most in this debate still insist they know exactly how they'd feel and what they would do.

well, I can only speak for myself here but I am simply saying how I think I would feel, I can not possibly say with a 100% accuracy either way.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by happyland

Hmm.. see to me "a life for a life" makes much more sense than allowing a child rapist /murderer/torturer to live in relative comfort for a few years then giving them a new identity/new location/new life (where nobody know's what they actually are) and allowing them to go and do exactly the same to somebody elses baby!

I'm not saying anybody elses opinion on this thread is wrong, but this is just how I feel!

Yep I didn't say the system was perfect. But killing them will only satisfy your need of wanting them to die, it won't stop more being born, or more acting in the ways that they do. As in an earier post I said, there should be more money that goes into finding out the causes, triggers and what makes them take that leap over the edge.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by kazanne

IF criminals were dealt with properly by the system,IF they were given LIFE instead of a few poxy years,people would NOT be calling for the death penalty,but it's all IFS and buts as the system has failed so many children who have been killed or abused,THAT is why those of us who have had to suffer these things first hand feel so passionate about the way murderers are dealt with,you get more for robbing a bank in this country than you do for child murder,that is WRONG.

Quite a bold statement, can you back that up?

[InOne]

Originally Posted by angus58

Well most of us are pretty much in touch with out own feelings and have an established belief system that informs our thoughts and actions, so we are entitled to hypothesise about how we believe we would act in any given situation - I would say it's almost a requirement just to be able to function in day to day life.

Definitely, but even you yourself are not 100% sure how you'd act, yet you seem to lay it down that that is the only course of action you'd take.